Patriarch K - Posted - 05/15/2007:  07:19:44

I've been playing irish music on my tenor banjo for a while by now, but now i'm not making big progress anymore when it comes to fast playing with the plectrum. When i'm going to do the triples and things at high speed it just sound strange, but when i try to do the same thing on a guitar then i can play very fast if i compare to the banjo. Is it just harder to play the tenor banjo or do i have the wrong banjo? If i try to play the same tune on a mandolin i can play much faster, if i play the same tune on a fivestring banjo i can play faster. The strings on my tenor banjo feels very uncomfortable so i wonder if it's supposed to be like that or if there are any problems with my banjo.
I have actually a Ashbury AB-35T Tenor Banjo and i don't know if it's made for irish playing. Or maybe that doesn't matter? Maybe it's because of my strings? I have J-63i strings for the banjo right now.

I don't know if you guys understand what i mean, but my banjo feels kind of untight or something. The strings feels loose even if they're tight so it's hard to change the strings and make a triple with the plectrum when playing fast.
When i try the mandolin or the 5string the strings feels much more tightened and much easier to play fast on - like a guitar almost.

Do you have any recommendations for me? Maybe a shorter banjo (17 fret or something)? Or maybe a plectrum banjo with irish tuning?

Edited by - Patriarch K on 05/18/2007 16:03:19

Scarecrow - Posted - 05/15/2007:  10:46:04

You seem to be describing the symptoms of a high action. There are a few stages to putting that right, and I'd take it to a pro for a set-up.




Give God a laugh: tell him your plans.

Tim2723 - Posted - 05/15/2007:  10:46:52

Other than to say keep practicing, I can only offer this: ITM is fundimentally dance music with a certain expected pace. Playing at lightning speed is often not the objective. Tone is everything in ITM, so don't sacrifice tone for speed. There are players who can go blindingly fast, but they have thousands of hour's work behind their accomplishment.

Just keep pickin' at it.

mikeyes - Posted - 05/15/2007:  13:15:38

I agree with both of the above notes and will add that your J-63i set may be a little too small in gauge for your banjo. I think that the G string is a 36 and you will probably be better off with a 40-41 or so. One of the best ways to deal with this is to get a set of mandolin strings that are long enough for the banjo (I think that the D'Addario J74 set may fit) and then you will also get the thicker gauge strings.

If it feels like you have to really press down on the strings, your nut action is too high. This is common in Asian banjos because they have plastic nuts (which are cut into by the strings eventually) and the time it takes to set up the nut action properly could be used in making another banjo. You can check the nut action by pressing the string on the second fret and if there is a visible gap betweent the string and the first fret, you need set up.

As for speed, speed is a product of good tone, good tone is a product of efficient consistent technique. Speed will come automatically with good technique and a lot of practice. Don't bother with the triplets, if you have to try, you are not going to get them. Practice them slowly and try to develop a good tone, they will come automatically when you are ready.

Sessions tend to have unnatural speeds, especially for reels. If you play Silver Spear at 220 bpm, as a beginner or intermediate player you can't put in ornamentation unless you are some kind of neurological freak. Good taste is much more important than sticking in a triplet just to show that you can do it.

Also, what kind of plectrum are you using? Many of the very best players use the thin light gray Dunlop nylon pick. With a banjo you don't need a lot of power for this kind of music so a thinner pick is good. (see the Gerry O'Connor web site for more technical tips.)

Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com

Patriarch K - Posted - 05/15/2007:  17:31:08

Now i don't exactly know what the "nut" thing is, but i suppose it is the little thing on the head that i can access by getting rid of a lid at the bottom center and then use a "penta key" and turn it around?
I have no pros where i live so i have to do everything by myself. I suppose you can't find a lot of tenor banjo players here in Sweden.
I was a bit curious so i used my penta key and pushed it to the left a couple of times. After i while i had to use some power so make it move and then i didn't dare to continue doing that. Maybe it was stupid of me to do it by myself, but i think the strings got closer to the frets and now i don't have to push that hard anymore. Or maybe it was some placebo feeling i had.
Do you know if left is the way to go for me if i hold the banjo in front of me with G string to the left and E to the right?

I don't use any special plectrum actually. I think i have a plain medium one with no special powers :)

Edited by - Patriarch K on 05/15/2007 17:53:10

mikeyes - Posted - 05/15/2007:  18:20:18

The nut is the bone or plastic part of the banjo at the heasdstock end of the fingerboard in which the strings are set before they go to the tuners. I would not try to lower the slots in the net if you are not cofident or have the special files needed.

I am not sure what you did to your banjo. If you lowered the action by changing the angle of the neck then that may have accomplished what you needed, but the same thing could be done with a lower bridge. Pictures would really help.

Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com

Tim2723 - Posted - 05/15/2007:  18:32:44

It sounds like what you've done it to tighten the truss rod. It's a metal rod that runs through the inside of the neck. The little plastic cover on the headstock conceals the adjustment end. The nut is the part with four slots that holds each string at the top of the neck.

Just keep pickin' at it.

Edited by - Tim2723 on 05/15/2007 18:34:51

Scarecrow - Posted - 05/16/2007:  03:44:48

PK, you're in danger of causing irreparable damage. Please don't mess with the truss rod!




Give God a laugh: tell him your plans.

Patriarch K - Posted - 05/16/2007:  05:14:53

Okay, here i have some pictures:
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/...ssrodbz9.jpg
I don't seem to have caused any damage yet if i pay attention to the sound, but i don't know. Maybe some interior damage :)

John Kavanagh - Posted - 05/17/2007:  11:48:13

Have you experimented with different flatpicks? I find that the less resistance there is in the strings, the stiffer a pick I want. I suppose what I'm lookingfor is consistency - if the string has more "give" I want less in the plectrum. Also, I changed my grip awhile ago on hte advice of a really good teno/plectrum player, and that made a huge difference.

Obvious things, but sometimes it's good to say them out loud.

-JK

...it don't mean a thang,
if it ain't got that twang.
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/439/music.php

Patriarch K - Posted - 05/17/2007:  15:05:48

I tried to switch pick and now i'm using a dunlop 60mm. I also found out that you shouldn't rest your hand on the body while playing. I've always rested my little finger and my ringfinger on the body and now i tried without resting them on the body. I also turned the pick about 20-30 degrees or something to make it easier to not get stuck between the strings and i find that this really helps. I see a new world in front of me and i have just stepped into that world with my bare hands to use :)
Well, that may have sounded strange so i made a little video when i play the maid behind the bar reel:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I9m5HLi-5FU
I play it faster than before even if it's not fast and i also think i get the tunes to sound much better now even if it could be much better. However - take a look and please give me some suggestions of what to do next to improve my playing a bit more.

diarmaid - Posted - 05/17/2007:  20:46:46

good stuff...just keep practicing, and listening to good music...thats the best advice i can give.

pweller - Posted - 05/17/2007:  21:12:41

I find that heavier picks help my playing by making it easier to pluck the strings. .60s are too thin for my Irish strings, so I use a .73, even for reels. My hand feels too sloppy with the thinner picks, and even the lightest touch will give you a sound with a thicker pick. High action may also be a problem. I find banjo more comfortable (tighter) than guitar or mandolin, so you may have a problem with the action as others have said.

Differential - Posted - 05/17/2007:  21:49:53

I like a relatively stiff pick --medium or heavy, but not too thick. I think it allows a little better control, particularly if you keep your right hand relaxed and loose. As far as picks are concerned, just keep trying different ones until you find one that works well for you.
Unless the neck has too much relief, I wouldn't mess with the truss rod. As mentioned by others, you can adjust the string height at the bridge and nut, or take it to someone who can properly set it up for you.
Regarding string gauges for Irish music, I prefer .013, .017, .028, and .038.

.

Patriarch K - Posted - 05/18/2007:  05:06:05

Guess i'll have to find a good pick for me then and maybe try some other strings and lower the bridge.
However, i would like to try a 17 fret tenor banjo so i was going to buy a new one someday and i just wonder if you have any good sites where i can by tenor banjos (both 19 and 17 (from Europe, not America))

Thanks guys for helping me.

mikeyes - Posted - 05/18/2007:  10:00:44

You can try www.andybano.com for a good selection of banjos. He carries several including the Gold Tone banjos which are probably the best bargain as they are well made and to Andy's standards.

As for the right hand, check out www.banjosessions.com and look at the various archives. There are several articles and videos on the right hand (all by me but you get to see several well known banjo players playing a variety of instruments. (You can also go to my web site and get the URLs for the various articles.)

Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com

Patriarch K - Posted - 05/18/2007:  16:02:34

Thank you for the links. I think i'll buy a shortscale banjo from that site in a couple of weeks. I'm quite uncomfortable with the one i have right now.

diarmaid - Posted - 05/20/2007:  09:40:14

patriarch theres plenty of good quality, vintage levin banjos in sweden, unless your hands are very small, i wouldn't recommend getting a 17 fret, as its probably better to get used to the 19 fret scale as soon as possible.

banjofanatico - Posted - 05/25/2007:  21:55:33

Hey, did you ever get the dixieland tenor book ? I remember you were going to try that style.

David