CageyK - Posted - 04/11/2007:  21:29:35

Howdy,

Newbie to CH here. Working on the basics.

Ran across an archived thread about Dwight Diller and his Just Rhthym DVD (which I have), among others.

[ http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...PIC_ID=51494 if you're interested. ]

His emphasis is strongly on accenting the 1 and 3 downbeats [BUM__Dit-ty, BUM__Dit-ty] and I guess this seems obvious. However, I'm finding myself more natrually playing the accent on the 2 and 4 backbeats [Bum__DIT-ty, Bum__DIT-ty]. I'm guessing this is coming from an earlier (bluegrass) fiddle instructor who strongly encouraged the backbeat emphasis as a way to "make the music move".

I'd appreciate any thought BHO members may have on how "wrong" is this backbeat emphasis and how hard should I work to switch the accents back to the 1 and 3 downbeats?

I like Dwight's playing...for sure. I don't know so much if I like the backbeat accents or if I'm just used to them at this point.

Thanks in advance.

Cagey

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 04/11/2007:  21:43:20

Modern oldtime stringband banjos tend to be on the backbeat - Freight Hoppers, Volo Bogttroters, Horseflies etc. While older players and some young players pretty much ignore the backbeats. Some of those have a 4/4 swing in their playing and some are 2/4. You want some freedom however. The only banjo player I ever heard that Always went for the front beat was Al Tharpe and he eventually switched to Canjun music.

I would suggest taking a more even approach and not worry about front and back beat for a while unless you are doing straight backup to a fiddle. Once you have the basic Bum Did-ty (and yes thats to indicate an equal Bum/Did emphasis) going solid so that you won't lose it - making sure the thumb comes to rest on the 5th string even when it does not sound it, then I suggest switching to what I refer to as Did-ty Did-ty Did-ty Did-ty and others call Bum-pa Did-dy where the thumb comes in on every second half of every beat - and pretty soon goes into "drop thumb". This gives you the quick and ready thumb you will want for playing more complicated stuff later and the straight out drive you will need to power a stringband. You can also decide later how you want to play the beats and be able to do either front or back beat at your own descretion.


The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

hyldemoer - Posted - 04/11/2007:  23:40:23

My viewpoint on the subject comes from playing fiddle before taking up banjo.
If dancer's foot goes down on the 1st and 3rd beat of a measure and you constantly emphasize those beats, there's a tendency for dancers to tire faster.
Emphasizing the 2nd and 4th beat of a measure (while the dancers are picking their foot up off the floor) can revive dancers if they seem to be tiring.

janolov - Posted - 04/12/2007:  01:47:17

When I started clawhammer I had the accent on the off-beat, especially when making chord brushes on the "DIT". When I began more drop-thumb and single string strokes on the "DIT", I turned to move the accent to the on-beat ("BUM"). Now I have rediscovered the off-beat accent and I am trying to be more flexible.



Janolov

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/12/2007:  04:30:40

Rule of thumb: Country music (traditional and pop) is accented on the backbeat. That said, the real rhythm is Bum-pa dit-ty, with pa being a rest, and becoming a note when you progress to drop-thumb. Get Dan Levenson's book, Clawhammer from Scratch. Once you get the basics down, you can then go anywhere.

Bill

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 04/12/2007:  05:07:36

I tend to play with a dotted rhythm (dotted eighth-sixteenth-dotted eighth-sixteenth) and accent the backbeat.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
*************************
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo

Emiel - Posted - 04/12/2007:  07:40:40

Dwight Diller is a Banjo Hangout Member himself. maybe you can ask him directly: http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango...asp?id=18883

Emiel


http://www.nowhereradio.com/emiel
http://www.bluerounders.com

Clawdan - Posted - 04/12/2007:  08:56:22

Hi Cagey,
This may sound like a strange question, but what emphasis do YOU hear when you listen to your favorite old time players and bands? Obviously there is some that do one way, some the other, some perhaps none. As you develop your ear for the music you should have an opinion based on what you enjoy. A great myth out there is that is was any one particular way even in any one particular region.

Also, I encourage the bump a did ty since it prepares you for the double thumb and drop thumb sound you will hear throughout most of the music.

Play nice,
Dan "Ain't no bum-diddy" Levenson
Old Time Music and Dance
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch, A guide for the claw-less - a MelBay Publication
and Old Time Festival Tunes for Clawhammer Banjo (MelBay 20313) - 117 tunes tabbed for clawhammer banjo with standard notation and suggested chords.
Tune list at http://www.folknet.org/dan/FestTunesBJBook.htm

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 04/12/2007:  20:05:00

Dan cuts through to the heart of the matter: There are different approaches.
As he so relevantly asks, which do you prefer?
Follow that method. Or, if playing with a particular group is important, which method dovetails with their style best.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
*************************
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo

CageyK - Posted - 04/12/2007:  21:03:22

Thanks all for your thoughtful responses and advice.

Dan, I can't answer you yet as to which I prefer--the downbeat or the backbeat. For years, all I was in-touch with was the downbeat. Then, with the fiddle instructor mentioned above, I got ahold of the backbeat, and since then, that's what I gravitate to almost naturally in my humming, playing, etc.

It sounds like there's a role for either or both in clawhammer--downbeat accent especially for solo; backbeat for stringband, dance, etc; and one's liking or the liking of session-mates. I think this adds to the richness and attraction of clawhammer banjo. I'll keep a keen ear as I listen and play over the next short while and see what I'm most drawn to...though at this point, I'll try to keep it neutral at first for the Bum-pa-Did-ty (rest or double-thumb) and see what evolves.

Emiel, I noted your Innsbruch locale. Reminds me of a great week a spent in your area almost 20 years ago...up in Igls and hiking around, even down the mountain into Innsbruch! I can imagine the beautiful sound of a banjo in a serence Alpine setting right now!

Best to all,

Cagey