BrightEyes - Posted - 04/09/2007:  20:02:01

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Im just starting out playing the banjo and would like to know what type of banjo you guys think is the best to play Irish tunes.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/09/2007:  20:47:20

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Generally a a tenor, plsyed with a flat pick and usually (not always) tuned an octave down from the fiddle. The top players use resonated ones, the "holy grail" is the Essex Paragon. Some prefer 17-fret tenors, but, again, the top players seem to use 19-fret ones. What to start with will depend on your budget. Note: it's really hard to get Irish tunes to sound "right" on a 5-string. Can be done, but requires exceptional skill level.

Bill

BrightEyes - Posted - 04/09/2007:  20:50:04

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Thanks Bill

Devon Wells - Posted - 04/09/2007:  21:23:04

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The tenor banjo (4 strings) played with a flat pick is the banjo most widely used and accepted in the Irish trad scene. Gerry O'Connor is probably the biggest name in Irish Tenor and you can check his website at www.gerryoconnor.com. There's also a short video of him playing with Bela Fleck on Youtube.

The 5 string played with fingerpicks is way less common but can sound great. Check out Tom Hanway at www.tomhanway.com. Also Fleck, Bill Keith, Tony Furtado and others have done interesting things in the Irish 5 string department.

Devon.

diarmaid - Posted - 04/09/2007:  23:56:24

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yeah id concentrate on gettin a decent 19 fret tenor and practice like hell...a good fiddle or mandolin teacher will be able to get you started if theres no decent banjo teachers locally as the tuning is the same...an older (prewar) banjo by paramount, leedy, vega, epiphone, b and d, maybell and a host of other good makers...practice if the main thing though...good luck

Jim Yates - Posted - 04/10/2007:  00:54:26

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Bill is right, Irish tuning is usually EADG high to low, but don`t try to tune a regular tenor banjo set this way. They're meant to be tuned ADGC. These strings can usually be tuned up to BEAD though. Since few Irish fiddle tunes use the low G string, this works well using the same fingering as the mandolin down one course of strings. There are some tunes that go down to the G string and these you`ll have to transpose up an octave or switch to mandolin.
I'll second Devon's recommendation to listen to Gerry O'Connor and throw in Mick Moloney's name as well.

Tim2723 - Posted - 04/10/2007:  07:38:00

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Hi, and welcome to the forum!

I think we're all assuming that by 'Irish tunes' you mean the traditional dance tunes like reels, jigs, hornpipes, etc. Those are most commonly played on a tenor banjo, as the others have said. The five-string shows up in Irish music, but is more commonly used to accompany singing. You can hear a five string in groups like the Wolfe Tones and The Clancey Brothers and Tommy Makem. But there are no hard rules about it. There are folks who flat pick dance tunes on a five-string very well and those who strum chords on a tenor to sing with. But generally speaking, the five-string is the 'singer's banjo' and the tenor the 'picker's banjo'.

You don't have to be loud. Just be so good that everybody shuts up and listens.

pweller - Posted - 04/10/2007:  10:24:08

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If you're getting into Irish traditional music, a tenor is the way to go. Depending on where you are, you can look for an old Kay tenor (This was my first banjo, I got it for $75). If you want a new banjo, the Gold Tone Cripple Creek Irish tenor sells for about $350. A tenor is the best way to go for Irish. Five string banjos can make really cool sounds in Irish music, but I find them too hard to play in that manner. Oh, and don't forget to use thicker strings to tune GDAE, regular tenor banjo strings can't take the added strain. Use guitar strings with the following gauges: 35, 26, 17, 13.

mikeyes - Posted - 04/10/2007:  11:48:46

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Ryan,

If you are interested in Irish traditional music, you need to find a session near to you so you can listen to how it is played and learn some tunes. A goos place to start is at www.thesession.org and look up sessions near you in their search machine.

Tenor banjos are the best way to go if you are new to the banjo. 99% of all banjo players play five string with the exception of jazz and Irish music where the ratio is reversed. If you search this site for "Irish banjo" you will find a number of very good five string players and a number of mp3s from both tenor and five string sources. The reason I suggest the tenor is that it is a lot easier to play the music on since it emulates the fiddle tuning and you can easily learn where the notes are. Plus the techniques are such that they enchance the music.

Go to my web site (www.mikekeyes.com) and click on the Irish Tenor Banjo part. That will refer you to a number of on line resources for learning to play the Irish tenor banjo and you can see if you want to go that route.

I play both instruments (I have played five string for over 40 years) and the tenor banjo is by far the easier of the two to learn and play Irish music.

Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com

Tom Hanway - Posted - 04/30/2007:  02:04:07

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quote:

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Originally posted by BrightEyes

Im just starting out playing the banjo and would like to know what type of banjo you guys think is the best to play Irish tunes.

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It's been a few weeks since you asked, so maybe you are deciding or have decided on an instrument. I noticed your other thread asking about which banjo is easier to play, a four-string or a five, and you got some thoughtful replies and a map of the territory.

You may be asking yourself (and us) a tangential question. Since you are a beginner, either banjo will take discipline and you will meet with a learning curve either way. It may not be about which banjo will be easiest for you, but which banjo has the most appeal for you, or maybe they both appeal to you, and who is to say that you cannot experiment with both until you find out for yourself which instrument appeals to you more. Who or what attracted you initially to the banjo? You need to ask yourself that. What is "easiest" is relative, depending on what you practice. What you practice begs another question. What do you want to play, and what will motivate you to play banjo -- that is, to practice and develop as a player.

I noticed that Rachel gave you this advice on the other thread: "My advice to you would be to decide what kind of music YOU like best and want to learn to play -- and then choose either a 4-string or 5-string instrument accordingly, and quit worrying about which is "easier" to learn. There are no shortcuts."

So, follow your MUSE, and own your music; otherwise you will be giving your choice/s away to others, who have their own tastes and musical menus and agendas. Follow your heart and try different paths until you find a musical path with a heart. Try them both before you buy. You don't have to buy first. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Why the banjo anyway?

Cheers,
Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/

arnie - Posted - 05/01/2007:  18:55:12

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Brian Taheny is possibly one of the best Irish tenor players in Canada - but He's from Sligo. He recorded some killer tunes on The Banjo Special . Here's a link to The Rambling Boys http://208.106.133.235/music/Arnie%...de%20out.mp3

Arnie Naiman
http://www.merriweather.ca/Records.aspx?ID=2

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Edited by - arnie on 05/01/2007 18:57:53

DanielT - Posted - 05/01/2007:  23:34:58

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At the risk of incurring backlash, I'm not sure why anyone would recommend Gerry O’Connor to someone just starting out. He strays SO far from the tune in his playing, he does it in such a way that it is hard to make sense of what he's doing and, I think, he sets unreasonable expectations about what a young player's priorities should be. As a beginner I never wanted a clinic on technique, I wanted to know how to play tunes so I could make music with other people. Technical things like ornaments worked themselves out over time; when it was comfortable for me to add a roll or some kind of variation, I worked to make it happen. It was kind of Zen thing, in a way. Anyway, I think if you brought a clumsy O'Connor's kind of game to most sessions as a learner, more often than not, I think, you'd be asked not to come back.

That said, I think there are better models out there than GO'C. For example, the clip of Brian Taheny Arnie posted is a far better model to a younger player than Gerry O'Connor (thanks for this, Arnie, btw); very tasteful playing, I think. Other players mentioned in this thread are as well. However, I benefitted GREATLY from listening to albums with NO banjo on them. One of my favorites is Paddy Canny's and P.J. Hayes's "All-Ireland Champions (An Historical Recording Of Irish Traditional Music)" album. Great playing, great tunes, great tempos. Mike Raffterty's recordings are fantastic as well; good tunes and straightforward playing at manageable tempos. With these kinds of sources, you can see where many more modern albums (see, for example, "Live at Mona's"; "Music at Matt Molloy's"; others...) are coming from.

Seriously, I wish people would stop recommending that beginners listen to Gerry O'Connor. He's amazing, but not a good role model for learning how to play with other musicians.

Banjowen - Posted - 05/02/2007:  04:07:23

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quote:

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Originally posted by DanielT

At the risk of incurring backlash, I'm not sure why anyone would recommend Gerry O’Connor to someone just starting out. He strays SO far from the tune in his playing, he does it in such a way that it is hard to make sense of what he's doing and, I think, he sets unreasonable expectations about what a young player's priorities should be. As a beginner I never wanted a clinic on technique, I wanted to know how to play tunes so I could make music with other people. Technical things like ornaments worked themselves out over time; when it was comfortable for me to add a roll or some kind of variation, I worked to make it happen. It was kind of Zen thing, in a way. Anyway, I think if you brought a clumsy O'Connor's kind of game to most sessions as a learner, more often than not, I think, you'd be asked not to come back.

That said, I think there are better models out there than GO'C. For example, the clip of Brian Taheny Arnie posted is a far better model to a younger player than Gerry O'Connor (thanks for this, Arnie, btw); very tasteful playing, I think. Other players mentioned in this thread are as well. However, I benefitted GREATLY from listening to albums with NO banjo on them. One of my favorites is Paddy Canny's and P.J. Hayes's "All-Ireland Champions (An Historical Recording Of Irish Traditional Music)" album. Great playing, great tunes, great tempos. Mike Raffterty's recordings are fantastic as well; good tunes and straightforward playing at manageable tempos. With these kinds of sources, you can see where many more modern albums (see, for example, "Live at Mona's"; "Music at Matt Molloy's"; others...) are coming from.

Seriously, I wish people would stop recommending that beginners listen to Gerry O'Connor. He's amazing, but not a good role model for learning how to play with other musicians.

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Some excellent points here, beginners can sometimes be put off by flashy virtuosos.

Owen.


http://www.ukbluegrass.com

www.banjohollow.ic24.net

mikeyes - Posted - 05/02/2007:  06:39:32

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The recommendation is for GO'Cs learning materiels which are superb, not his records. If you ever get a chance to take a workshop from him he will readily admit that his on stage music is not what you should emulate if you are starting out or an intermediate player. He emphasises technique and musicianship in class and will focus on the basics.

Go to his CD-ROM from MadForTrad and you will see what I am talking about. If you ask him why he is playing the way he does, he will tell you that he "bought a house" with his music and his audience expects him to play that way. At heart he is a very traditional musician who comes from a family of well known trad fiddlers (he is one himself.) He knows the music as well as any one but is also a professional musician. He will agree with your sentiment that his records are not the first thing you should listen to and will probably recommend someone else.

Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
http://www.mikekeyes.com

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Edited by - mikeyes on 05/02/2007 07:18:28

DanielT - Posted - 05/02/2007:  09:00:56

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Gotcha, and you know what? Thinking about it for a second, I've heard this about him. But my point, though, was really aimed at the tendency I see on the boards to recommend that younger players listen to guys like G'OC, and in five strings land Bela Fleck, with the expectation that players of this caliber are good role models for learning.

A little confession? I almost never listen to G'OC...I just don't find his playing that interesting. There are lots of other Irish banjo players out there, though, who IMHO make better music.

Anyway, it's not a big deal - and in the long run, it doesn't make a different - it just irks me a little and I thought I'd speak up.