jon - Posted - 03/04/2007:  18:28:30

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I had posted this on another thread and thought that I would post it on it's own.
I wonder why more banjoist don't try other banjo styles. Do you love the banjo or just "Bluegrass" banjo like is often found on the "Banjo" hangout.
I have been playing banjo since 1967, I was 12 when my pop brought home a Dayton plectrum, it was the era of banjo and piano duos here in So. Cal, and my brother and I were soon employed. That era was also the time of the "Bonnie and Clyde" movie and "Beverly Hillbillies" filled with that wonderful Scruggs sound. I wanted to play both styles. Through the years I have loved and learned to play different styles and thus collected a few banjos in order to play these styles. I have plectrums, tenors . resonators and openback 5 strings. With banjos ranging in the $3,000 range (I have purchased mine as deals have come up, and have never purchased a new banjo, though I would if I could afford them) if one banjo could be used for multiple styles, why would'nt you.

For 12 years now I have used one banjo for multiple styles. I have filed a small notch at the first loop of the strecher band near the heel and pull the 5th string into it to pull it out of the way. I used to use a brass piece with a hook glued to the head (Doug Mattacks helped me with this) but my new way works better.
I also have a leather pick holder that holds my finger picks into position. I can change from bluegrass to plectrum style in 15 seconds. I have done this on my Deering Calico and Gibson RB3 and it works great. I often play on the streets by myself and with doing this I can play a variety of styles. I also pick over the B string and play Irish style. I can clawhammer thru a few numbers (great for singing) and can get through a couple of 5 string "rags".
Thought I have 2 nice old plectrums, I'll often take one of my 5strings to play a 4 string job. Banjo is a great and more versitle insrument that most give credit to. I think it is such a shame to be stuck in only one style of music!




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iubanjo - Posted - 03/04/2007:  19:52:05

Jon, you bring up a very good point that I have been curious about for a long time. As pickers like Bela Fleck, Tony Trischa, and many others have shown, the banjo is a very versatile instrument. But, I think most would agree that the banjo's primary "home" (or where it is associated most with) is in bluegrass. I appreciate all styles of banjo playing, but I am first and foremost a bluegrass fan. I love listening to Bela every now and then for a change, but I can't get away from the high lonesome sound of Bill Monroe's music. That said, I believe it is very beneficial for any musician to try different things to add variety to their playing.

The thing I have been curious about, which may explain why there is more of an emphasis on bluegrass banjo on BHO, is whether most banjo players are bigger fans of bluegrass or the banjo. In other words, let's say you go to your local music store with the intention of buying a new CD. Are you more likely to look for an album with really good banjo pickin, or an album with really good harmony, mandolin pickin, fiddle playin, etc. in addition to good banjo?

Now, of course you may be thinking, "well, I look for both of those things," but here's one more example. Again, let's say you're wanting a new CD, and you've heard about this new bluegrass band that you want to know more about. You know they have recorded an album as a band and that the banjo player has a solo album out. Which CD are you likely to buy first? Are you more interested in how well the band plays together or how creative the banjo player can get on his own album?

So, banjo pickers, do you see yourselves as bluegrass fans first and then banjo fans, or is it the other way around? Or, is there no preference one way or the other? By the way Jon, I think that's some cool and interesting stuff you're doing with your own banjo playing.

mainejohn - Posted - 03/04/2007:  21:36:32

I'm going to agree with Jon on this one. Sounds as if we have similar banjo backgrounds. I started playing folk-style/clawhammer 5 string in the early 60's, then added plectrum as the piano and banjo/ sing-along rage came along in the mid sixties, and also worked at Scruggs-style in the late 60's and early 70's. I own a tenor, several plectrums, several open-back 5's, and 2 resonator 5's. I don't know why BG style pickers think that, as iubanjo describes it, the banjo's "primary home" is bluegrass. Think of all the other styles: American folk, old-tyme, Celtic, maritime folk, Dixieland, classical, 20's-30's "swing", just to name some that come to mind. Granted BG may be where a plurality of banjo players reside, but I suspect there are alot us, me included, that think of the banjo first, and then think of the various styles, one of which happens to be BG style. Just my thoughts...sorry if I offended anyone.

Cheers,
John
Scarborough, Maine

Edited by - mainejohn on 03/04/2007 22:03:39

iubanjo - Posted - 03/04/2007:  22:54:47

I should probably note that I am not trying to promote bluegrass as the banjo's rightful home...it's really just my hypothesis as to what I believe the common public (and many pickers) associates the banjo with. My personal opinion is that you can't confine one instrument to one type of music. Bluegrass was probably one of the later genres to adopt the banjo anyway.

Let me rephrase my question a little bit...Do you feel more allegiance to the banjo or to the particular genre in which you play the banjo. That was my fault for giving bluegrass an unfair bias. I was a bluegrass fan prior to picking up the banjo, and I also play other bluegrass instruments. So, I feel slightly more allegiance to the bluegrass genre than to the banjo itself.

brokenstrings - Posted - 03/04/2007:  23:24:31

The majority of today's banjo players may be BGers, but that doesn't mean that bluegrass is the "natural home" of the banjo.

Jessy

Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!

billmill22 - Posted - 03/04/2007:  23:31:04

Jon I think I've read a similar post by you on the 4 string group? I've come to the conclusion that my 1930 Vegaphone pro is going to get a 5 string neck. I play guitar, plectrum banjo, very little tenor a lot of banjo uke lately, and now want to try 5 string. I don't want to switch styles on the same banjo--just switch banjos for each style.
You've made a very good point about the banjo, I enjoy all banjo sounds but have taken much time to get where I'm at now. I'm hoping that I can add 5 string to the list along with the other styles of banjo and guitar.
Bill

http://www.banjoseen.com
"Where there is a Tu-ba-phone Banjo,
there you will find musical happiness."

scotty22 - Posted - 03/05/2007:  01:39:35

When I was 16 years old, I was smitten with the speed and excitement of the Scruggs style. I didn't really know there were other styles -- after all, I played electric guitar and worshipped led zepplin -- BG banjo seemed as fun as rock guitar. Years passed, and I became more discriminating. A couple of years ago I began playing a lot for older folks and started listening to their music. I also started playing clawhammer -- something I'd always wanted to try -- and subsequently got into roots music. So, after a couple of years, I've become quite a banjo devotee, and BG is only < 10% of what I play (I also play guitars, mandos, fiddle, et al.). The banjo goes back a lot further than BG, and if a person is only listening to BG they are really missng out on a lot of banjo music: modal old-time, celtic, minstrelsy, blues, rag, jazz. I like a lot of different music, and a lot of it plays really well on banjos. My problem is, when I go out to play I have to figure out what part of my repertoire I'm going to do, then take the appropriate banjos -- there's far too many styles to limit oneself to just one banjo. It would be far easier to have all of them with me! But, pretty much one 5-string and one 4-string is the limit with the other stuff I have to haul..

mainejohn - Posted - 03/05/2007:  07:47:06

Best of both worlds: My '23 Whyte Laydie plectrum and the Wyatt Fawley 5 string neck that allows me to go back and forth. Bill: You've probably already considered this approach as a plan for your tubaphone plectrum.



Cheers,
John
Scarborough, Maine

billmill22 - Posted - 03/05/2007:  08:44:23

Right you are John! I'm keeping my eyes out for one or, if I have too, I'll make my own. BTW, that's a good match you have with those necks.
Bill

http://www.banjoseen.com
"Where there is a Tu-ba-phone Banjo,
there you will find musical happiness."

mainejohn - Posted - 03/05/2007:  09:47:50

Bill: That W/L is the plainest of my 4 vintage Vega plecs, but for whatever reason, it has the best sound!

BTW, are you going to the Spring Fling in Mansfield, Mass 3/22-3/25? I emailed you about that last week.

Cheers,
John
Scarborough, Maine

jon - Posted - 03/05/2007:  11:09:11

I do LOVE playing and listening to Bluegrass, I love a great jam session but I also enjoy playing a Dixieland job, a Polka dance or jamming with an Irish session, it is all a big thrill. I play alot by myself (I guess because I have this option)and solo Bluegrass banjo is good for about 2 songs but mix in a clawhammer/ sung song and a quick (or a nice slow tune) 4 string tune and you can hold a crowd.
It's all right there, just a different right hand movement, and slight different tuning. I bet most of you have a ton of tunes already in your head & you already have the instument, it's not like having to go from classical guitar to electric guitar when you absolutely cannot.

Edited by - jon on 03/05/2007 19:14:07

cgrotewohl - Posted - 03/05/2007:  17:39:55

Howdy folks, On a short note and in my opinion, when one thinks of a banjo as a "banjo", one could be limited. If one thinks of the banjo as a "musical instrument", it has no limits....Thanks, CG

chris Grotewohl
http://irish5string.homestead.com/chrisG.html

scotty22 - Posted - 03/06/2007:  00:47:43

John, How in the heck can you resist getting another pot to mount that neck permanently?! You have discipline!

Edited by - scotty22 on 03/06/2007 00:48:30

mainejohn - Posted - 03/06/2007:  07:58:27

Scotty: That 5string neck with that dowel stick will only fit the pot I show in the pic. I've tried it in a couple of other pots that I own and there is enough variation in the size of the dowel stick and/or the square hole in the rim that it just doesn't mesh perfectly. However, if I were to happen upon a Whyte Laydie pot at the right price, I'd probably make the necessary modifications. In the meantime, I have several other 5 strings to keep me busy. Some day, however, that combo in the picture will be a nice little package to sell to the right picker/strummer.

Cheers,
John
Scarborough, Maine

imac50 - Posted - 03/06/2007:  17:28:00

A long time ago in BNL there was a picture of a banjo with 2 necks 4 and 5 string. I know I still have it but it would take a while to find. Could it be the answer? Me? I play the banjo......

Iain
www.iainmaclachlan.com

jon - Posted - 03/06/2007:  18:30:06

WHY? There are case hassles and you never how it might sound if you had one made. The bass player in Led Zepplin, Jones, had a builder, Manson, build a 3 neck guitar. It was 6 and 12 string guitar necks and a mando. It was way cool but Jones said that the mando just sounded like a little guitar, and it was difficult to carry about-and way expensive.
And why have 2 interchangable necks that you need to hassle a complete teardown and rebuild to play?
One banjo, again, a small notch filed (takes 3 min.) and bam- let the flat pick play those beautiful "comp" strums and some tremblo. I want to take one banjo. If I'm going to hall two instruments, I'll take a guitar or mandolin.
Try it. you'll like it!

mainejohn - Posted - 03/06/2007:  21:01:16

Believe me...I don't change those necks back and forth. I bought it as a plectrum with a trashed neck. Had the 5string neck made, then I restored the plectrum neck. Re-installed the repaired plectrum neck a year ago or so and it's been a plec ever since. The 5string neck hangs in my shop collecting dust. Jon...your idea makes alot of sense.

Cheers,
John
Scarborough, Maine

jon - Posted - 03/07/2007:  19:11:25

John,
I too go back and forth between accessories-that is tone rings and resonators. I have my 60's Vega pro openback, I purchased an old Soloist resonator-and I'll put it on for a while then take it off.
My Deering Calico is a "tube and flange" and I just again have taken the resonator off and replaced the "flathead" tonering with a maple ring that Bill Sullivan made for it. It loses some volume and power, but then I have an instrument that is lightweight so I can carry around in a s.shell case when I perform on the streets or take on my trips overseas plus it has more equal volume to sing with.
I would love to play your pro with the 5 string neck, and would love to have a 5 string Vegavox! The weight and sound is perfect.

Edited by - jon on 03/07/2007 19:14:36