Jonnycake White - Posted - 07/22/2026:  11:02:55

Hi, it's been a while since I posted here. I'm planning my next build and thinking about tuners. I play clawhammer in Open G, Double C, and Sawmill. So I need to retune my second and 4th strings. My understanding is that most detuners are put on the second and third strings. Would the 3rd string tuner work just as well on the 4th string? Any suggestions on brands?

Edited by - Jonnycake White on 07/22/2026 11:04:07

Pigeontown Banjo Co - Posted - 07/22/2026:  11:15:41

Bill Keith used and recommended using the the larger shaft of his D-tuners (as opposed to the smaller shaft for the 1/2 step down on the G string) on 4th, 2nd, 1st...Beacon sells these sets specifcally but I know folks have been having some trouble with response time at the moment

The Old Timer - Posted - 07/22/2026:  14:33:38

A number of recorded banjoists have had all 4 tuners on the peghead in Keith D tuners. As mentioned above you buy 2 more B string tuners with the larger diameter shaft. The G string tuner remains the only small shafted tuner on the banjo.

Jonnycake White - Posted - 07/22/2026:  15:58:13

I confess I have never seen the Keith tuners in person, and I was not aware there were 2 shaft diameters. What's the reason for that?

RB-1 - Posted - 07/22/2026:  18:04:02

quote:

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Originally posted by Jonnycake White

I confess I have never seen the Keith tuners in person, and I was not aware there were 2 shaft diameters. What's the reason for that?

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In general re tuning the G string is between G and F#, only -as we call it- a half step, while the other strings usually move in whole steps.

In order to keep the turning angle ( the 'feel') similar, the 3rd string tuner has a smaller diameter post.

It's just visible here:

Edited by - RB-1 on 07/22/2026 18:07:28

Culloden - Posted - 07/22/2026:  18:29:29

D tuners don't have to be restricted to the second and third strings. You could just as easily use one on the fourth. The difference in size of the shafts is because, in D tuning, one string is tuned down a whole step, the other is tuned down a half step. For that reason, I would use the tuner with the big shaft on the fourth string, and the small shaft on the second.

Jonnycake White - Posted - 07/22/2026:  20:39:09

Thanks, that makes sense. I'm also thinking outside the box about using right angle tuners with some kind of cam detuners e.g. cheat-a-keys added. What do you think? I realize it would mean an unconventional position for the 4th string tuner.

Edited by - Jonnycake White on 07/22/2026 20:39:51

Culloden - Posted - 07/22/2026:  21:36:22

I don't know about using Cheat-a-Keys for that purpose. There is not much room for flexibility in placement, so they are pretty much relegated to the second and third strings, unless you are thinking of building a banjo and placing the tuners in unusual positions.

I, personally, prefer the cam style tuners, including Cheat-a-Keys, but I use them in the normal positions. For some time, I used a Timara string drop on my fourth string tuner to drop the string to a lower pitch. I think the design that Tim Wallis uses now is different from the one I used.

Edited by - Culloden on 07/22/2026 21:38:14

Jonnycake White - Posted - 07/22/2026:  22:34:39

I took a look at the Timara d-tuners and I like that concept. I would prefer that they be more parallel with the head stock rather than perpendicular. I suppose that would mean a modification or maybe a home-made version. I'm not afraid to try it. And yes, I will be building this banjo so I can do whatever the heck I want! :)

The Old Timer - Posted - 07/23/2026:  08:22:20

Sonny Osborne and a few other bluegrass banjoists had their pegheads with Keith D tuners PLUS cam-type detuners so they ended up with 6 or 8 tuner buttons and cam tuner levers to have multiple ways to tune the same string to as many as 4 or 6 different notes! Sonny had invented his own type of tuner "Sonny's Ugly Tuners" to do some of this work.

One notable young banjo player made a post here a few years ago of a banjo he had built with an EXTENDED peghead to add Scruggs type cam tuners drilled through the peghead between the 1st/4th and 2nd/3rd tuners, in addition to lever-action cams and Keiths! He needed more rim to fit all those contraptions on one peghead.

Buck Trent of the old Porter Wagoner country band was doing this decades ago with multiple Keiths and cams on the pegheads, plus more push button and lever action cams fitted around the pot and tailpiece (plus through the wooden/plastic top of his electric banjo too). With him it was "all tuners all the time!"

The Old Timer - Posted - 07/23/2026:  08:26:07

Probably the best known recordings of a song using Keiths on all 4 strings were "Auld Lang Syne" by Bill Keith, and Bela Fleck on David Grisman's Christmas LP.



John Hartford and his String Band recorded an EXTREME version of an original composition using about every kind of tuner he could fit on the peghead, called Foggy Mtn Landscape.    youtube.com/watch?v=YPRZtBw3Zo...t_radio=1

Edited by - The Old Timer on 07/23/2026 08:28:07