Cap - Posted - 07/17/2026:  09:28:39

This is 1927 TB Granada 0369-75. No hole raised head. Does anyone know how many of these were made by Gibson with the tube and plate? I think it would be fun to share at photo, date and serial# of these truly amazing Instruments. Next year they will 100 years old. I'll go first enjoy.

The Old Timer - Posted - 07/17/2026:  10:24:04

I helped the widow of a friend sell a litter-sister to your banjo, the suffix on the one I dealt with was 76.

I believe it's pictured on Greg Earnest's website. No hole tone ring. It had a different sound than a 40 hole. Can't say if it was better or worse though.

I also owned for a few years a TB 3 conversion with a no hole arch top ring. Same comment on the tone. "Different".

There has been lots of discussion about "why" Gibson abandoned the no hole tone ring for the 40 hole. Personally, my best guess is a new, damp skin head would not dry out evenly and promptly, with moist air trapped in the "gutter" of the arch top top ring. Holes were needed for moisture release? Drilling 40 holes would have taken time and care, back in the mid 1920s. No computers or robots. Drilling holes had a cost, so there must have had to be a benefit too. Just my thoughts.

As for how many, well it is said the no hole tone ring was used for a portion of 1927. Obviously Gibson could have pulled such a tone ring out of the stockroom anytime in later years, but let's say for all intents and purposes they were a 1927 artifact. By my homemade way of deducing Gibson production from FON suffixes, I believe 1927 was in fact the PEAK year for Mastertones. I think there were at least 2500-2600 made in 1927. So if no holes were used for half of 1927, that's 1250-1300. I realize that's a lot of guessing and "ifs".

I'm going to go count reported no holes on the old Banjophiles. While we all know Banjophiles isn't perfectly accurate, maybe the proportions would be about right? More anon...

The Old Timer - Posted - 07/17/2026:  10:48:30

quote:

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

I helped the widow of a friend sell a litter-sister to your banjo, the suffix on the one I dealt with was 76.



I believe it's pictured on Greg Earnest's website. No hole tone ring. It had a different sound than a 40 hole. Can't say if it was better or worse though.



I also owned for a few years a TB 3 conversion with a no hole arch top ring. Same comment on the tone. "Different".



There has been lots of discussion about "why" Gibson abandoned the no hole tone ring for the 40 hole. Personally, my best guess is a new, damp skin head would not dry out evenly and promptly, with moist air trapped in the "gutter" of the arch top top ring. Holes were needed for moisture release? Drilling 40 holes would have taken time and care, back in the mid 1920s. No computers or robots. Drilling holes had a cost, so there must have had to be a benefit too. Just my thoughts.



As for how many, well it is said the no hole tone ring was used for a portion of 1927. Obviously Gibson could have pulled such a tone ring out of the stockroom anytime in later years, but let's say for all intents and purposes they were a 1927 artifact. By my homemade way of deducing Gibson production from FON suffixes, I believe 1927 was in fact the PEAK year for Mastertones. I think there were at least 2500-2600 made in 1927. So if no holes were used for half of 1927, that's 1250-1300. I realize that's a lot of guessing and "ifs".



I'm going to go count reported no holes on the old Banjophiles. While we all know Banjophiles isn't perfectly accurate, maybe the proportions would be about right? More anon...

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Well, that was interesting -- A few of each show up at the end of Banjophile's 1926 list (all Mastertones, not just Granadas):  4 no holes and 3 40 holes.

In 1927 and early 1928, up to FON 9000, I counted (my eyes are blurry now!) 178 no holes and 111 40 holes.  Remember these are "reported" banjos, that included identification of tone ring type.

In 1928 once the 9000 FON block started, no holes nearly disappear.  I scrolled down through pages and pages of the Banjophiles and saw only a single no hole reported here and there.

As far as "just Granadas", in 1926 there are 4 no holes and 2 40 holes.  In 1927-28 up to FON 9000 I see reports of just 5 no holes and 29 40 holes.

I also tracked Florentines and Bella Voces.  9 no holes and 18 40 hole Florentines.  4 no holes and 14 40 holes Bella Voces.  In 1927-28 up to FON 9000.

So it would appear the answer to the original poster's question would be:  there probably aren't a lot of no hole Granadas in the world.

Edited by - The Old Timer on 07/17/2026 11:08:06

The Old Timer - Posted - 07/17/2026:  11:09:57

quote:

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

quote:

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

I helped the widow of a friend sell a litter-sister to your banjo, the suffix on the one I dealt with was 76.



I believe it's pictured on Greg Earnest's website. No hole tone ring. It had a different sound than a 40 hole. Can't say if it was better or worse though.



I also owned for a few years a TB 3 conversion with a no hole arch top ring. Same comment on the tone. "Different".



There has been lots of discussion about "why" Gibson abandoned the no hole tone ring for the 40 hole. Personally, my best guess is a new, damp skin head would not dry out evenly and promptly, with moist air trapped in the "gutter" of the arch top top ring. Holes were needed for moisture release? Drilling 40 holes would have taken time and care, back in the mid 1920s. No computers or robots. Drilling holes had a cost, so there must have had to be a benefit too. Just my thoughts.



As for how many, well it is said the no hole tone ring was used for a portion of 1927. Obviously Gibson could have pulled such a tone ring out of the stockroom anytime in later years, but let's say for all intents and purposes they were a 1927 artifact. By my homemade way of deducing Gibson production from FON suffixes, I believe 1927 was in fact the PEAK year for Mastertones. I think there were at least 2500-2600 made in 1927. So if no holes were used for half of 1927, that's 1250-1300. I realize that's a lot of guessing and "ifs".



I'm going to go count reported no holes on the old Banjophiles. While we all know Banjophiles isn't perfectly accurate, maybe the proportions would be about right? More anon...

---

Well, that was interesting -- A few of each show up at the end of Banjophile's 1926 list (all Mastertones, not just Granadas):  4 no holes and 4 40 holes.

In 1927 and early 1928, up to FON 9000, I counted (my eyes are blurry now!) 178 no holes and 111 40 holes.  Remember these are "reported" banjos, that included identification of tone ring type.

In 1928 once the 9000 FON block started, no holes nearly disappear.  I scrolled down through pages and pages of the Banjophiles and saw only a single no hole reported here and there.

As far as "just Granadas", in 1926 there are 4 no holes and 2 40 holes.  In 1927-28 up to FON 9000 I see reports of just 5 no holes and 29 40 holes.

I also tracked Florentines and Bella Voces.  9 no holes and 18 40 hole Florentines.  4 no holes and 14 40 holes Bella Voces.  In 1927-28 up to FON 9000.

So it would appear the answer to the original poster's question would be:  there probably aren't a lot of no hole Granadas in the world.

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The Old Timer - Posted - 07/17/2026:  11:15:36

Greg Earnest's website has photos of 4 no hole Granadas.

ChunoTheDog - Posted - 07/17/2026:  11:54:46

I have a no-hole TB3 conversion from 1928, 8977-5.

I believe all no hole archtops were made in the 2pf configuration before the one piece flange came about.

Great, versatile tone.

Emiel - Posted - 07/17/2026:  14:01:09

quote:

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

Personally, my best guess is a new, damp skin head would not dry out evenly and promptly, with moist air trapped in the "gutter" of the arch top top ring. Holes were needed for moisture release? 

 

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I don't believe that, because the skin head can (and will) dry out from the top.