jsinjin - Posted - 05/22/2026:  20:30:03

One of the guys in my workout group’s daughter graduated from high school this week. She was accepted to Berklee college in the roots program to play fiddle and whatever else she plays.

Her graduation party was a get together of a bunch of professional Western swing and blues and bluegrass musicians from across the state. Most are studio musicians with a long list of records etc. there were upright bassists, a cocktail jazz drum set with a guy from an Irish band called the killldeer and many fiddles mandolins and guitars. I didn’t even bother to get my banjo out. As I listened, recognizing none of the songs and in awe at how fast and random the playing seemed I spoke with someone.

I know several tunes in clawhammer style taught by my teacher. Nothing I have learnedsounds remotely like what they were playing.

Someone I was talking to explained that the music was Western swing and Kentucky bluegrass and that’s probably why I didn’t recognize it. And that many of them attend the jam sessions that I had gone to in the past and felt equally lost. They explained that the clawhammer and traditional mountain songs I had probably learned were very different from what the group played and was playing.

I honestly kept thinking that I had absolutely no path to being able to ever join in anything because it was so fast and so alien. I was told to watch the chords but I was watching one of the guitarists playing flat picking style and he moved up and down the neck so much I’m not sure he played the same chord twice.

It was definitely out of my league but I also realized that I was waiting to hear a song I had learned and they weren’t even playing the style I have been learning.

martyjoe - Posted - 05/23/2026:  01:47:05

Welcome to where the big boys hang out. The funny thing is if you keep chipping away what they are doing is achievable for us too.

NNYJoe - Posted - 05/23/2026:  04:47:07

@jsinjin -"I know several tunes in clawhammer style taught by my teacher. Nothing I have learnedsounds remotely like what they were playing."

As I am learning the banjo, I often hear experienced players talk about "having a conversation" with the other instruments. Many sources compare music with language. After six years of practice, I finally understand the analogy.

Now that I am six years old, I can start talking with grown-ups. I don't have to just repeat the ABC's. I can make my own sentences, with my own words. I still don't understand everything the grown-ups say, but sometimes I get the general idea. The more I listen, the better I can talk.

Don't worry about your inability to follow the pros at the party. You'll get it soon enough.

Owen - Posted - 05/23/2026:  07:34:56

John: "I honestly kept thinking that I had absolutely no path to being able to ever join in .......  ."

Is "joining in" one of your goals? 

jdeluke137 - Posted - 05/23/2026:  08:43:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by NNYJoe

Now that I am six years old, I can start talking with grown-ups. I don't have to just repeat the ABC's. I can make my own sentences, with my own words. I still don't understand everything the grown-ups say, but sometimes I get the general idea. The more I listen, the better I can talk.

---

Great analogy!

Bob Buckingham - Posted - 05/23/2026:  09:16:13

Clawhammer in Texas? I know one Texas clawhammer player, Lloyd Wright. Heck of a musician too.

banjered - Posted - 05/23/2026:  14:21:51

I play/sing folk songs and old time with banjo. I don't have time to go beyond those two genres. I don't care for music where the emphasis is on speed and fretboard pyromaniacs. It is easy to feel intimidated and inadequate in the presence of hot shot musicians but somewhere along the line I let go of that and letting them enjoy their music while i enjoy mine.

Once a pro-musician asked, "Let me try that banjo." Clawhammer, simple, right! It was hilarious to watch him squirm from not immediately be able to do "simple." Different strokes for different folks, just enjoy your own music whatever direction that takes! banjered

Nopix - Posted - 05/23/2026:  17:01:04

I can't frail or clawhammer or whatever you want to call it.
I don't loose sleep over it.

jsinjin - Posted - 05/23/2026:  19:03:20

It’s not that. It was just further reinforcement of how incredibly complex and radically diffficilt jams are. The ones I have been to would be like starting on Mount Everest. One of the guys was named Holton Doucette who won the 2022 us walnut valley flat picking competition for both mandolin and guitar, this guy and his wife who were the leads for a band called the Kildeer, the young woman whose graduation was being celebrated and is headdd to the roots program in fiddle, a jazz drummer named Stockton Helbing from Denton, Texas, some guy who is a studio musician in tenor guitar, another guy named Dennis Bailey who is supposed to be famous on steel guitar and that dobro thing. They kept asking me to get my banjo out as I had been encouraged to bring it but the music was both alien and too fast for me to even follow. I can play a few songs plunked out note by note. Another bluegrass jam session I went to was 100 miles per hour and that was out of my league. This group was a thousand miles per hour and complicated. I just don’t see myself learning how to play by watching this. I think it would be like learning to code by watching a senior engineer at Google validate his code in a GitHub with no knowledge of even what he is doing.

jojo25 - Posted - 05/23/2026:  19:44:09

John...u posted this in the OT section...so I will assume you want to learn OT...going to bluegrass/western swing sessions probably is not the best place to start...they asked you to get out your banjo, right?...and you didn't cause they were blazing fast...so find OT sessions to go to...or find one at least half way decent OT fiddler and befriend him/her and start to regularly play tunes with them

jsinjin - Posted - 05/23/2026:  20:07:41

Well what i was sharing is that I didn’t realize until someone told me that it wasn’t even the same kind of music as what I was learning. That was actually a big realization. I don’t think that a lot of people realize how much the suggestions about “just go to jams and play with them” kind of bash into a powerful limit of ability vs how jams actually occur. I keep trying to keep an open mind as this is the overwhelming advice in this forum but again, I think the metaphors of trying to learn something very difficult by just jumping with the Olympic athletes and the stuff will rub off on you isn’t the best way to do it. I suppose there is something I could learn by perhaps fighting by with world class boxers but I bet I would just get knocked out. This was less of a jam than a world class demonstration of how fast and aggressive someone can play

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/23/2026:  21:44:38

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

 

I don’t think that a lot of people realize how much the suggestions about “just go to jams and play with them” kind of bash into a powerful limit of ability vs how jams actually occur. I keep trying to keep an open mind as this is the overwhelming advice in this forum...

---

Well, this being the CH/OT forum I personally would Jump to the conclusion that you are trying to learn that style.  As such, I would never steer you towards professional Swing/Bluegrassers with the sorts of resumes you mention.  I can guarantee you that a lot of us wouldn't have fit in either.  I'm guessing you did hear some great music if nothing else, and the fact they were encouraging you to get out your banjo and join in means that they were some friendly, welcoming folks.

When I relocated to the Ozarks in the early '90's, it took me several months to find a good OT jam where I fitted in, and it entailed doing a nearly 200 mile round trip on a Monday night!  These folks concentrated on the local fiddle tunes and appreciated and understood clawhammer banjo.  The other jams I had gone to previously were welcoming, but they were a mix of OT fiddle tunes, Bluegrass, and Country.  CH banjo didn't always fit, and the folks didn't understand the re-tuning thing.  I spent a lot of time twisting the pegs, and moving the capo around.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/23/2026:  21:55:55

Texas is a big place, but if not near you, some of these folks may know of Texas OT in your area.  Not a lot of OT on the list, but someone (Bluegrassers or folkies) on it may be able to point you in the right direction.  

Events | JAM

You might also try googling the Texas Old-Time Fiddlers' Association.  They likely have chapters all over the state.  

Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 05/23/2026 22:02:00

jsinjin - Posted - 05/24/2026:  06:26:21

Thanks all. That wasn’t the problem to solve: finding a jam. It was the realization that this actually wasn’t the same kind of music I was learning how to play. I kept waiting to hear something that even sounded like Angeline the baker or cluck old hen or cripple creek or really anything that was similar. This was literally the first time I realized this was not only the style of music I have been trying to learn but it is not really even orthogonal to that style. This may sound strange but I always assumed music was just like math or like chemistry or coding. As you picked up the underlying fundamentals it would become relationally easier to read or understand. I completely assumed one started with the notes and the learning of each note and why the next note came next and why the note after that was selected to learn those fundamental relationships. Once you had that completely understood then the music like the periodic table or the Maxwell equations became incredibly beautiful. I truly didn’t realize until I was listening to the 30 or 40th super fast strumming song about cigarettes that this wasn’t even remotely the same music as what I’ve been learning. It was actually a revelation. I had never paid any attention to different kinds of music before. I mean I can tell when classical music is played vs country and western. I had just assumed that if one learns to play the banjo then it’s programmatically the same to pick up a banjo and insert the instrument into a song if one knows the song regardless of the style of play. As though (my daughters listen to and have been to a Taylor swift concert) one could hear a song by Taylor swift and simply tanspose the notes into banjo and play it with a pick or with the finger picks or with the clawhammer style just by knowing each note and simply playing. I assumed if one attended a heavy metal jam and hand a banjo and knew heavy metal music that the style of play wouldn’t limit the ability to play the songs if one knew the reading of the music and where each note was on the frets. I’ve sort of been waiting for this “revelation” like when I realized that you could optimize more than one variable at a time in differential equations as a sort of awakening. Like suddenly you understood how music was fundamentally programmed and could code it and decode it. The jams I’ve attended have been music and there were banjos although there wasn’t one at this particular jam I didn’t pay any attention at all to whether they were old time or bluegrass or heavy metal or classical (I never really attended a heavy metal or classical jam, that is hyperbole on my part). I just assumed it was a “have banjo and play” sort of thing. I thought one would learn similar basics like piano: “see the bridges they are crossing” as a scale. It was a revelation at this jam that I wasn’t going to hear anything resembling “cluck ol hen”. I had assumed that cluck ol hen was a beginner song one started with to learn some sort of chord progression. I have sort of been waiting for the click of “you now understand the relationship between the notes and can compose songs or join in on chopin but while playing the banjo.

pinenut - Posted - 05/24/2026:  11:13:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

Thanks all. That wasn’t the problem to solve: finding a jam. It was the realization that this actually wasn’t the same kind of music I was learning how to play. I kept waiting to hear something that even sounded like Angeline the baker or cluck old hen or cripple creek (these tunes are each from extreme ends of the genre with different play styles and all have strong melodies, a banjo is a strong melody/rhythm instrument) or really anything that was similar. This was literally the first time I realized this was not only the style of music I have been trying to learn but it is not really even orthogonal to that style. This may sound strange but I always assumed music was just like math or like chemistry or coding. As you picked up the underlying fundamentals it would become relationally easier to read or understand.  It is true, your calculations require more variables.

I completely assumed one started with the notes and the learning of each note and why the next note came next and why the note after that was selected to learn those fundamental relationships (put written notation into a midi, play it and see how bad it sounds).

Once you had that completely understood then the music like the periodic table or the Maxwell equations became incredibly beautiful (periodic table-maybe, Maxwell's-surely you must be joking). I truly didn’t realize until I was listening to the 30 or 40th super fast strumming song about cigarettes (strong rhythm with weak melody, watch out for timing in the swings and waltzes) that this wasn’t even remotely the same music as what I’ve been learning. It was actually a revelation. I had never paid any attention to different kinds of music before. I mean I can tell when classical music is played vs country and western. I had just assumed that if one learns to play the banjo then it’s programmatically the same to pick up a banjo and insert the instrument into a song if one knows the song regardless of the style of play. As though (my daughters listen to and have been to a Taylor swift concert) one could hear a song by Taylor swift (strong beat with weak melody) and simply transpose the notes into banjo and play it with a pick or with the finger picks or with the clawhammer style just by knowing each note and simply playing (midi file example).

I assumed if one attended a heavy metal (beat=strong, melody=weak) jam and hand a banjo and knew heavy metal music that the style of play wouldn’t limit the ability to play the songs if one knew the reading of the music and where each note was on the frets.

I’ve sort of been waiting for this “revelation” like when I realized that you could optimize more than one variable at a time in differential equations as a sort of awakening. Like suddenly you understood how music was fundamentally programmed and could code it and decode it. This commonly happens for young people; it's inconstant for adults >25yrs.

The jams I’ve attended have been music and there were banjos although there wasn’t one at this particular jam I didn’t pay any attention at all to whether they were old time or bluegrass or heavy metal or classical (I never really attended a heavy metal or classical jam (is there such a thing?), that is hyperbole on my part). I just assumed it was a “have banjo and play” sort of thing. I thought one would learn similar basics like piano: “see the bridges they are crossing” as a scale.

It was a revelation at this jam that I wasn’t going to hear anything resembling “cluck ol hen”. I had assumed that cluck ol hen was a beginner song (Cluck 'ol Hen is in the modal/minor category with strong nuance; it's 'simplicity' is deceptive) one started with to learn some sort of chord progression. I have sort of been waiting for the click of “you now understand the relationship between the notes and can compose songs or join in on chopin but while playing the banjo.

---

Hi John,  Your assumptions are mostly correct, trust your intuition; the picture uses a different set of colors.

Edited by - pinenut on 05/24/2026 11:27:57

cow_tools - Posted - 05/24/2026:  11:58:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

...one could hear a song by Taylor swift and simply tanspose the notes into banjo and play it with a pick or with the finger picks or with the clawhammer style just by knowing each note and simply playing. I assumed if one attended a heavy metal jam and hand a banjo and knew heavy metal music that the style of play wouldn’t limit the ability to play the songs if one knew the reading of the music and where each note was on the frets.

---

None of those assumptions are incorrect, most people just have zero interest in playing Taylor Swift or Heavy Metal songs on the banjo. The banjo is very much an instrument rooted in history and tradition, and the repertoire of music we play is a reflection of that. That's not even mentioning the limitations that come with the banjo like open tunings, the 5 string, etc. (that while still possible) make the banjo not ideal for this kind of thing. If you want to be some kind of human jukebox, the piano or guitar is a much more logical instrument to choose.

jsinjin - Posted - 05/24/2026:  17:03:40

Human jukebox sounds a bit passive aggressive in characterizing. I come from a background of zero literally zero music. Never really listened to it. Don’t listen to it much at all. So learning is all new to me. I had imagined that any music was literally like a program. Once your learned notes you could play anything from sheet music. That’s how I imagined it anyway. No disrespect to old time or bluegrass or mountain or any other style. I honestly didn’t know there were archetypes of music. I mean I knew classical but I thought that was because it took a symphony to play not because it was a specific style. Going to random jams resulted in me not knowing what was going on. It literally was an wakening to learn at this session that the reason I wouldn’t know the music or be able to play it was because it was some other style. I was using Taylor swift as a metaphor related to something I assumed everyone would have heard of. I truly thought that music would be notes do re mi etc on sheet music, learn the code then apply to frets and strings. Then when you want to learn a song, internalize it and learn to play it. I honestly kept thinking with the old time music my teacher has been showing me that we would eventually get to something I have heard of and that this was all just introductory music. It was a revelation to me that I’m learning a specific style. I literally picked the banjo because I wanted to learn to play anything and it fit my hands better than a guitar did. This has all been said before. I was just marveling at the fact that I didn’t even know this Western swing stuff I didn’t recognize was an altogether different style of music and Jo matter what they played I wasn’t going to hear cluck ol hen or Polly put the kettle on.

Owen - Posted - 05/24/2026:  17:49:26

From The Babylon Bee:

cow_tools - Posted - 05/24/2026:  18:12:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

Human jukebox sounds a bit passive aggressive in characterizing.

---

No intentions of coming off as passive aggressive, sorry if I appeared that way in my wording. All I mean to say is that the layout of the instrument is a lot less intuitive which can be a hurdle when it comes to understanding relationships between notes/keys/etc, especially if its your first instrument to learn on.  If you can get past that it is still possible to play almost anything, people like Bela Fleck are a testament to this, but it certainly isn't commonplace. On the piano everything is laid out very orderly and makes visualizing how the music works and sight reading much easier.

pinenut - Posted - 05/24/2026:  18:41:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by cow_tools

 

---

All I mean to say is that the layout of the instrument is a lot less intuitive which can be a hurdle when it comes to understanding relationships between notes/keys/etc, especially if its your first instrument to learn on. yup.

If you can get past that it is still possible to play almost anything, people like Bela Fleck are a testament to this, but it certainly isn't commonplace.

On the piano everything is laid out very orderly and makes visualizing how the music works and sight reading much easier.

---

Hi Edward,

The "human jukebox" bit was witty. 

Guitars and pianos are versatile and kinda boring.  Banjos and their keepers are supposed to pollute the music, sometimes it's for the good and it's always more interesting. 

Cheers

Edited by - pinenut on 05/24/2026 18:48:24

jsinjin - Posted - 05/25/2026:  04:27:01

That has been my realization-the layout and usage of the banjo is less intuitive than other instruments (paraphrased). And I’ve learned that music isn’t all sheet music and “punch cards in and songs out”. That was my absolute biggest surprise. I completely and totally thought that every song was note 1, note 2 note 3 completely composed one note after another. I assumed there were patterns but that you learned to play by learning to interpret those blocks of written j formation. I learned pretty quickly that it’s not really that way and it’s slowly become easier to learn a tune both with my teacher and by listening to hear patterns. But this weekend was the very first realization that a whole style of music was one way and sort of grouped together while other types are completely outside. It’s why it would be rare that someone would bust out a German polka song on clawhammer style or play cluck ol hen on the pipe organ. I truly assumed anything was interchangeable and I’m sure it sort of as, as a version of the AC/DC song thunderstruck is shown in this video

m.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Ao-iNP...D%3D&ra=m

It was an absolute shock to me this weekend that the reason I would go to a bluegrass jam at my local get together and I wouldn’t know a thing is that because I chose clawhammer (chosen specifically because I came home from the music store with a banjo but had not bought picks a couple of years ago) is that clawhammer is a style of playing that isn’t regular used with (I suppose this Jake session was) Western swing. And I had no idea until that moment. The realization was a complete and total surprise to me.

It’s not a complaint and no reason to change and I’m not looking for another jam session through forums. I just had the realization that clawhammer and the few songs I learned weren’t played at these mega fast get together cbecause it was like going to a heavy metal group or classical chamber orchestra with my banjo and style. And I had never thought of that before.

jsinjin - Posted - 05/25/2026:  05:21:00

I was just with my workout group and they said the other style besides Western swing was something called “Gypsy jazz” which I had also not heard of. A lot of fiddles and tenor guitars and then the upright bass.

banjoboyd - Posted - 05/25/2026:  07:00:04

John, I would just advise you against adopting the outlook that these different styles/genres exist independently of one another, and that specialization is a prerequisite for participation in any of them.



The notion of a jam where you only play a particular set of songs only on particular instruments and only in a particular way is a fairly recent invention.



The jam you witnessed is proof that these various genres are interrelated, not separate. They are like different dialects of the same language. And fixating on the peculiarities of a particular dialect is not a good way of learning the underlying language.



(As an aside, I've taught ESL in formal settings. One of the common questions is, "Teacher, are we learning British English or American English?" The correct answer is: "Neither, we are just learning English (and by the time you are advanced enough to make the distinction, the question will have become irrelevant)").



There is SO much music out there, even limiting it to music conventionally associated with the 5-string banjo, and no one knows it all. But the point of a jam is not to simply run through the tunes you already know. That is a performance, not a jam. The point is to have a (semi-spontaneous) musical conversation.

Edited by - banjoboyd on 05/25/2026 07:02:08

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/25/2026:  08:46:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjoboyd

The jam you witnessed is proof that these various genres are interrelated, not separate. They are like different dialects of the same language. And fixating on the peculiarities of a particular dialect is not a good way of learning the underlying language.

---

I'd say he witnessed a jam of accomplished musicians capable of playing in multiple musical genres and stylistic approaches to their instruments outside of what they primarily perform in their ensemble or solo acts.

Or they were sufficiently accomplished and well-rounded to recognize chord changes by ear and to apply or adapt their working instrumental vocabulary to the song, genre and style of the moment.

This is not to disagree with you. I think there's a lot of insight in your reply. Especially your comparison of differences in musical genres to the differences in dialects: "by the time you are advanced enough to make the distinction, the question will have become irrelevant." Well said.

jojo25 - Posted - 05/25/2026:  10:42:26

Hi again John...yeah...Texas is a very big place...so this might not help...but ya never know...two friends of mine have developed a map...including the entire world...showing OT sessions, OT festivals, fiddle contests and a few Irish sessions...looks like there are about 2 dozen listings in Texas...maybe one of them will work for you...a great, free, week long OT fest happens in east central Oklahoma every spring...already happened this year...here is the link to that map...google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?l...fYMzkygQe

and here is the link to that OK fest...glotma.org/

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/25/2026:  13:37:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

Human jukebox sounds a bit passive aggressive in characterizing.

---

I can assure you it's not. "Human jukebox" is a way of describing (and I'd say praising) someone who can seemingly play almost anything: a musician with a remarkably large repertoire of songs spanning genres and decades.

Edward was making the very valid point that if your goal is being able to play just about anything with anybody, then piano or guitar (the latter emphasizing chords and strumming) are much better choices of instrument than five-string open-backed banjo played in clawhammer style. [Clawhammer, however, is probably an easier instrument to learn for solo unaccompanied playing and performance.]

And of course there are musicians capable of adapting clawhammer banjo to types of music in which it is not typically heard. Victor Furtado comes to mind. Based on his stylings here, I'm certain he could play his version of clawhammer in Gypsy jazz.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

Elsewhere in this discussion -- and at various times in the past two years -- you've admitted to not knowing much about music or not even listening to much music before you took up banjo and started learning clawhammer (without even knowing what it was). You've said you still don't listen to much music. This has to change.

It's great that the recent jam led you to realize there are different styles of music with entirely different canons  and that across those styles different instruments (and ways of playing the same instrument) fit better or less well than others. Since years of not listening to music preceded that realization, what should follow from it is that to get any good on your instrument -- and to one day have the ability to play the widest range of music you can -- you need to start listening to music.

Most immediately, you need to listen to music with clawhammer banjo in it. You need to hear how clawhammer banjo is played.  And you need to listen to the type of music you'd like to play on your banjo that isn't clawhammer and might not even have banjo.

How do you get from here to there? You become really good at clawhammer technique applied to the old time canon. You develop the widest possible range of left and right hand techniques. You become really familiar with the fretboard, knowing where the notes and chords are (in multiple tunings, if that's your thing). You learn and internalize the relationships of chords and keys, and the musical functions of chords in keys. At a minimum learn the number system so you know what I, IV and V mean (and the other numbers). I think you can do quite well without learning lots of music theory terms (tonic, dominant, sub-dominant, mediant . . .) unless you really want to. 

And you make an even more more important realization than you recently did about the existence of genres: You realize that banjo music is modular. There's a lot of stuff played on banjo (both in my 3-finger world and your clawhammer world) that is non-specific musical "noise" that fits over various chords.  What works over G chord in one song will work over G chord in another song. Almost every other song. So each song or tune you learn isn't just that one tune. It's a vocabulary lesson full of phrases or measures that you can use in other songs. They may not always work as melody for other songs, but sometimes they will. And they will be musically correct for playing along with someone else who is playing or singing the melody. [And I say this with full awareness that actual old-time jam practice is for everyone to play only the melody and strictly the melody all at once all together all the time. I'm talking about what it takes to become a banjo musician who can play something appropriate for any song without literally knowing every song.]

As you develop the vocabulary of clawhammer noise to play on the chords to any old-time song, start applying that concept to folk songs, country songs, rock songs, show tunes, Great American Songbook ballads . . . whatever you want to play. That is: Get a chord and lyric sheet for any song you want to play. Transpose it to an easy key if necessary. Then play stuff you know on each of the chords as you sing or hum the song -- either out loud or in your head. This will require expanding your knowledge of chords and probably altering your technique to fit different rhythms and tempos. Even hearing a song in your head so you know what you're playing along with is a skill you need to develop.

You want to reach the point where at a jam you're not waiting for the group to play something that sounds like "Cluck Old Hen," but instead can recognize what's happening in whatever song they're playing and can hear how you can make banjo fit. If you simply play along and pass when they give you the nod for a solo, no shame in that.

The path to both (becoming a more fluent old-time clawhammer player and a multi-genre clawhammer player) is very much the same: gaining wider knowledge of music and a much higher proficiency on your instrument.

It starts with listening. I can't think of any way that anyone can get any good on any instrument without listening to music played on it. 

jsinjin - Posted - 05/25/2026:  14:09:28

That sounds like a 70 or 80 year journey for me. I definitely practice every day but I limit to five or six songs and 25-30 beats per minute on strum machine for those. This music sounded like thousands of beats per minute and wild arpeggios and feats of solo expertise. I’m not saying I won’t practice but that jam was like learning Russian by listening to a Russian auctioneer speed selling competition.

Owen - Posted - 05/25/2026:  15:04:43

Now we're making progress!! ... finally a figure as to what "eventually" actually means.     However, if my "banjo journey" [cough, cough] to this point is any indication, it's still probably overly optimistic.  C'est la vie! 

People like to point out that "it takes as long as it takes," and I know the ratiolnale behind that is sound, but I don't find "The Pope is Catholic" revelations (?) particularly inspiring.    [Rant over ... for now.  Aplogies for the intrusion.]

Dan Gellert - Posted - 05/25/2026:  15:18:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

Well what i was sharing is that I didn’t realize until someone told me that it wasn’t even the same kind of music as what I was learning. That was actually a big realization. I don’t think that a lot of people realize how much the suggestions about “just go to jams and play with them” kind of bash into a powerful limit of ability vs how jams actually occur. I keep trying to keep an open mind as this is the overwhelming advice in this forum but again, I think the metaphors of trying to learn something very difficult by just jumping with the Olympic athletes and the stuff will rub off on you isn’t the best way to do it. I suppose there is something I could learn by perhaps fighting by with world class boxers but I bet I would just get knocked out. This was less of a jam than a world class demonstration of how fast and aggressive someone can play

---

The jam sessions folks have referred you to are an entirely different species of beast from what you're describing in this thread.  There are a lot of "old-time jams" that are made by and for folks who, like yourself, just want to keep it easy and enjoy making simple, homemade music. There might not be any such happening near you, though.  

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/25/2026:  15:22:16

quote:

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Originally posted by jsinjin

That sounds like a 70 or 80 year journey for me. I definitely practice every day but I limit to five or six songs and 25-30 beats per minute on strum machine for those. This music sounded like thousands of beats per minute and wild arpeggios and feats of solo expertise. I’m not saying I won’t practice but that jam was like learning Russian by listening to a Russian auctioneer speed selling competition.

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Not every player belongs at every jam.

Not every jam is the right place for every player.

Many jams (and the ones I prefer) have self-selected or even established by rule they are for experienced players of a certain minimum level of musical understanding and proficiency on their instruments.

Most jams I'm familiar with are limited to one type of music.

Some jams are "all-levels" and open to a wider range of genres, though it's rare to see regularly scheduled jams combine both acoustic and electric instruments.

The jam you encountered seemed to be a special event, so more likely to be anything goes.

These were professional musicians who play everything at performance speed. That is what they expect whenever they play with anyone else. Yes, some may have encouraged you to get out yuour banjo. They may not have known you're only a beginner who knows only a few songs at 30 bpm. You chose best not to try to play along.

All that said, there are such things as beginner jams and slow jams, the best of which are led by experienced players (because someone needs to know what's going on).

If it hasn't become obvious to you by now, perhaps the right jam for you would be a beginner's old time jam.

Next best would be a beginner's bluegrass jam, because the instrumentation will be largely the same and there is plenty of cross-over from old-time into bluegrass. At the slower tempo, clawhammer will fit in fine.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -

I'm aware it's a long journey. I described it because you keep telling us about your assumptions about what music is and how it works and you thought if you learned to read the notes you should be able to play anything . . . so I thought I would describe in the most no-musical-knowledge-required-to-understand-it way how one actually goes about becoming the type of musician I thought (erroneously?) you were saying you wanted to be.

jsinjin - Posted - 05/25/2026:  16:25:08

And I wasn’t complaining about it being a 70 to 80 year process although knowing that’s the timeline it takes I definitely started a bit late at 56. The hope, I suppose, is a miracle drug or simply a good cardiovascular system to hit that 120-130 year old horizon.

And I hope you all understand, this wasn’t complaining about the jam. It was advertised as a jam celebration for my friend’s daughter. It just so happens that her friends and peers are very good musicians at Western swing, Gypsy jazz and traditional Irish music and I know almost nothing about those music genres. But I also understand there had to be some patten in what they were playing, I just wasn’t adept at recognizing it. It was radically complex, the jazz stuff sort of fell apart into weird time signatures and it was very fast. Pulling my banjo out would have been an exercise in just pretend strumming.

Owen - Posted - 05/25/2026:  17:46:59

Miracle drug or extraordinarily long life??? 

I dunno... I'm pretty much down to takin' a knock on the noggin and coming out of the coma with whatever the musical equivalent of bilingual aphasia / foreign accent syndrome is.    

[Where there's life, there's hope??]

jsinjin - Posted - 05/25/2026:  18:36:21

I think this post was taken as a complaint or frustration. I wasn’t frustrated. I definitely didn’t decide to take out my banjo given the music being played but I’m not complaining. This was just the sort of place I have landed at a couple of jams and (my fault) I didn’t know the difference between Western swing and bluegrass and old time and there is a lot there. My limited exposure is looking up songs Hilarie is teaching me from multiple artists and studying their hands and approaches to chords and different left hand technique while playing. I certainly find plenty of beginners who have recorded themselves as well as experts. If I had to pick a favorite composer it would be Chopin or Bach as that’s what my parents played most when I was at home and when we went to the symphony when I was a kid. That doesn’t seem to be taught much in banjo unless it’s adapted by someone like Bela Fleck or this guy

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilyU9Lc1...oAcB&ra=m

Now that song I’m very familiar with. It was the only song I learned on piano when I was 11 or 12 that I played at recital and it’s an interesting study in broken chords. I can completely recognize that song if someone plays it.

Pete-McDale - Posted - 05/26/2026:  08:45:14

I was one of the jammers at that very party. While I understand your observations, please know there were actually a handful of us there who can and would’ve happily played an old time tune with you at your speed.



As someone who is a personal friend of the person the party was being thrown for, she is an incredibly accommodating individual and musician. We have in fact played old time tunes together previously (I play a little clawhammer banjo myself).



I’m also unsure of when you arrived, but I do want to point out we also played with several young kids who had not been playing all that long. Again, we played at their speed and comfort level.



I’m really sorry you had the experience you had. I promise you we aren’t snobs. We would’ve happily played an old time tune or two with you. Don't be afraid to get your banjo out!

Edited by - Pete-McDale on 05/26/2026 08:50:37

jsinjin - Posted - 05/26/2026:  11:20:31

Oh no. It wasn’t a bad experience. And the young kid I saw playing seemed to be a virtuoso (the one from east Texas with the teacher who is the graduate’s teacher on fiddle). And, the nursing student ive seen at several of the audio engineer’s parties is amazing at that jazz style. The young woman whose party we attended was a friend of my daughter in school and her father is one of my close friends. He and I both agreed there was no way we would take out our instruments in that group. He plays fiddle and is a member of my 5 am workout group. We have on many occasions tried to play together but it’s an exercise of setting strum machine at about 10-15 beats per minute while we sound out notes like a 6th grade junior high week 1 wind ensemble learning how to play the instrument.

I think there is a semblance of missed frustration many people have when they fondly remember jams. That or I’m unique in how lost I feel. I have to say I’m literally going from note to note remembering what note comes next for any song. The faster a group goes the faster I have to remember the notes and it gets jumbled very fast in my head. It can take me upwards of 30 min to switch tunings and switching songs usually takes me watching one of my teacher’s videos a dozen times to remember the pattern. What yall played was like nothing I’ve ever heard in my life. Not a bad experience at all and I wasn’t down but it would have been like joining the symphony orchestra with a kazoo and no knowledge of any of the songs.

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/26/2026:  14:59:07

First of all: How amazing to have someone here who was also there and can offer both a different perspective of the event and confirmation of how good these musicians were. Texas is a big place, the Hangout is a big place, and yet it happened. Very cool.

With that out of the way . . .

quote:

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Originally posted by jsinjin

I think there is a semblance of missed frustration many people have when they fondly remember jams. That or I’m unique in how lost I feel.

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I can't disagree strongly enough. I've been going to jams since the summer I started banjo lessons in 1972. I remember good jams, bad jams, and great jams.  I believe I remember them accurately enough to know when I was struggling to keep up, when I evolved into holding my own, and when I became the one setting the pace or difficulty of a tune and knowing the importance of being welcoming and patient with novices. And in some situations, I can still be lost, because there's lots I don't know.

Everyone who has said playing with others is the best way to progress as a player is absolutely correct. And everyone who has suggested that you, in particular, go to jams is absolutely unaware of how not-yet ready for that you are.

I mean this in only the most honest-interpretation-of-your-self-description way, but you are clearly describing someone who is not ready to jam with others (except your morning workout buddy who is as much a struggling beginner as you are). 

"I’m literally going from note to note remembering what note comes next for any song."

For playing the songs, you need to start memorizing in larger chunks. Whole phrases and measures at a time.

But to play along with others, forget trying to play the literal song, and just try to make chord-appropriate "noise" as I described several posts back. Find something you can play almost on auto-pilot through the count of 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & for the chords that occur in the songs you're learning. I don't know what tuning or keys you're learning in. If your songs are in C, then memorize a pattern of plucks and strokes (or whatever clawhammer technique is called) for C, F and G chords.  If you're in key of G, then learn G, C and D chords. Make it melody non-specific. Something that goes with whatever someone might sing or play when that chord is happening.

Play these easy "noise" patterns over and over, and gradually bring up the speed. You should be able to play these faster than you can play tunes that require more movement, variation, and (to your detriment) note-by-note memorization.

"The faster a group goes the faster I have to remember the notes and it gets jumbled very fast in my head."

As said above, that's certainly the case if you're trying to play the melody. But if you're just trying to play along with a song, even if it's one of the songs you supposedly know,  you don't have to play the version of the song you know. You can just make appropriate noise for every chord. 

Think of the person who strums a guitar. Does what they play "sound like" the song? Most of the time, no. (Unless maybe there's something distinctive about the strumming pattern, or the chords are the melody.) Can the way they strum G chord up and down in one song work for strumming G chord up and down in another song? Most of the time, yes. 

And this gets to an important difference between how most beginners learn guitar and how you're learning clawhammer banjo. Guitar beginners learn chord shapes which they will always need. Forever. In every song that uses that chord. They learn different ways to strum on those chords to suit different rhythms. They learn to change chords. Then they learn the chords in sequence to play (along with) songs. Not the melody. No leads. Just the accompanying chords. Someone who can "only" strum guitar chords can play thousands of songs.

You, on the other hand, are struggling to play the few specific songs you're learning on clawhammer as solo pieces of lead melody and self-accompaniment rhythm and harmony.  I'm not saying to stop trying. No. Keep at it.

But to more quickly get to a point where you can play along with others on thousands of songs that use only three chords, I believe you should work on what I just described above: Learn to use the right and left hand techniques you already know from your five or six songs to make endlessly repetitive G, C and D  or C, F and G "noise" that would fit in any measure where a song uses one of those chords. It's the clawhammer banjo equivalent of strumming a guitar: just playing the chords without any attempt to play the song. The vocal or lead instrument will sing or play the melody. You're playing along.

If you're still taking lessons, show this message to your teacher. I don't necessarily expect them to agree. But I do expect them to understand. 

The question comes down to your most immediate goal: Do you want to (1) play only the specific tunes you're learning with lead melody and self-accompaniment filler (what you're currently learning) or (2) almost immediately find yourself playing along with thousands of songs that use only three chords?

"It can take me upwards of 30 min to switch tunings and switching songs usually takes me watching one of my teacher’s videos a dozen times to remember the pattern."

I think no one who has suggested you go to jams is aware of this. I would go back and ask them how patient they would be at a jam with someone who needs a half hour to retune their banjo to play in another key. Or who can't play the next song because there's no one there to remind them how it goes.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

I don't think anyone here took your opening message as a complaint. I think their reactions might have been the same as mine: Unawareness of far behind you still are and surprise at your (belated) discovery at the jam of just how different various musical genres can be, that the songs you're learning on clawhammer banjo aren't likely to be played by musicians steeped in other genres, and what level of spontaneous performance advanced musicians are capable of.

jsinjin - Posted - 05/27/2026:  07:45:32

Music has always been a black box to me. I just didn’t care about it very much. Even now I wouldn’t say I enjoy it. The playing of it is impressive like appreciating a painting or a sculpture but like those things, learning to play like a master doesn’t interest me very much. I think that I really did pick an instrument that isn’t designed to teach music theory. I have been fascinated by the scales and the half step whole step and the way the modes and minor and diminished and all the various chords come together. That subject is absolutely fascinating to me and I could read about it for hours. But I just find I don’t get much joy out of listening to music. It’s probably bad but I always think I should be working on something else for my classes or work. It feels like a chore. That probably says a lot. I could completely tell that the group at this jam absolutely loved to play and switch songs and go from end to end with a song and I can completely appreciate the intricacies with which they practiced. I just find I don’t enjoy the feel or actual activity of music listening as an activity. Again, it’s like an activity that doesn’t bring me joy. Which is probably the cause of the stress incredulity of a lot of people with my posts here. I didn’t do any thinking about wanting to play the banjo or wanting to learn a specific style of music. I actually assumed all music was just notes in different orders on different instruments and that the order and time of the notes was the only part that made the various music types sound different. Old time wasn’t selected as much as “I didn’t have any picks when I brought the banjo home so I started there”. I didn’t say “I love old time music” and wanted to learn it. I just assumed that starting banjo would begin with middle C and scales and work through all of the various details of the notes and then chords and then groups of chords and move through any type of music that one had sheet music for. I feel like I’ve hurt some peoples feelings on here with my questions and certainly my focus. That wasn’t my intent. I honestly believed all music was note after note and learning each note made songs. Ive learned a lot about music from this group.

I assumed my whole life that when people talked about music they would say things like “do yall think I should play a B or an A after this note?” Then a discussion of harmonics or something like that would ensue with an argument about the third note. And I actually tried to learn it that way. Note 1 note 2 note 3 all the way through. If I record myself I can see me mumbling each note then moving my finger to that note. I never imagined that there were ways to just hear part of a song and know the whole thing and be able to join others in that song. What I’ve found I enjoy most isn’t the playing, it’s learning how music is put together and just using the banjo as the “thing that makes sounds”. I thought this would be sort of something I developed for a long time as a hobby but it really turns out the way music is played isn’t what I expected it would be. That’s ok, I do appreciate the hard work everyone does to jam and play and learn the technical fast songs just sort of by feel but it turns out my real joy seems to be the “why” of everything with it rather than the songs and harmony.

250gibson - Posted - 05/27/2026:  23:55:56

quote:

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Originally posted by jsinjin

Music has always been a black box to me. I just didn’t care about it very much. Even now I wouldn’t say I enjoy it. The playing of it is impressive like appreciating a painting or a sculpture but like those things, learning to play like a master doesn’t interest me very much. I think that I really did pick an instrument that isn’t designed to teach music theory. I have been fascinated by the scales and the half step whole step and the way the modes and minor and diminished and all the various chords come together. That subject is absolutely fascinating to me and I could read about it for hours. But I just find I don’t get much joy out of listening to music. It’s probably bad but I always think I should be working on something else for my classes or work. It feels like a chore. That probably says a lot. I could completely tell that the group at this jam absolutely loved to play and switch songs and go from end to end with a song and I can completely appreciate the intricacies with which they practiced. I just find I don’t enjoy the feel or actual activity of music listening as an activity. Again, it’s like an activity that doesn’t bring me joy. Which is probably the cause of the stress incredulity of a lot of people with my posts here. I didn’t do any thinking about wanting to play the banjo or wanting to learn a specific style of music. I actually assumed all music was just notes in different orders on different instruments and that the order and time of the notes was the only part that made the various music types sound different. Old time wasn’t selected as much as “I didn’t have any picks when I brought the banjo home so I started there”. I didn’t say “I love old time music” and wanted to learn it. I just assumed that starting banjo would begin with middle C and scales and work through all of the various details of the notes and then chords and then groups of chords and move through any type of music that one had sheet music for. I feel like I’ve hurt some peoples feelings on here with my questions and certainly my focus. That wasn’t my intent. I honestly believed all music was note after note and learning each note made songs. Ive learned a lot about music from this group.



I assumed my whole life that when people talked about music they would say things like “do yall think I should play a B or an A after this note?” Then a discussion of harmonics or something like that would ensue with an argument about the third note. And I actually tried to learn it that way. Note 1 note 2 note 3 all the way through. If I record myself I can see me mumbling each note then moving my finger to that note. I never imagined that there were ways to just hear part of a song and know the whole thing and be able to join others in that song. What I’ve found I enjoy most isn’t the playing, it’s learning how music is put together and just using the banjo as the “thing that makes sounds”. I thought this would be sort of something I developed for a long time as a hobby but it really turns out the way music is played isn’t what I expected it would be. That’s ok, I do appreciate the hard work everyone does to jam and play and learn the technical fast songs just sort of by feel but it turns out my real joy seems to be the “why” of everything with it rather than the songs and harmony.

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You are saying what everybody has been trying to tell you. Playing the notes as written in standard notation and/or tab does nothing to teach you the "why" of music. Easiest way to learn the "why"  is through interaction with other  

jsinjin - Posted - 05/28/2026:  10:20:56

I meant the physics. The actual concrete physics, intervals, reasons why chords sound good or tense, how the scales are made up, what the basis is for the nodes. I know everyone already knows this. But that’s the stuff I care about.

I have. A PhD in an applied math discipline called physical chemistry. I did one post dog in applied materials science in Boston and one in biomedical engineering in Houston in drug delivery rates. I taught physics and chemistry at a college in Dallas then moved to a medical school in Dallas before I shifted to a large bank in a quantitative hedge fund and about 10 years ago a big computer company hired me into their applied math team. I’m also an adjunct professor at a college in ft worth in chemistry and computer science.

I live and breathe academic applied math research. I was truly hoping to enjoy learning the basics of music at a very deep level. I don’t really care much about songs. They’re not fun for me at all. I would much rather read a paper about the physics of the banjo than learn the songs. I do want to learn a few songs. I am not learning kinds of things I want and hope to learn about music in jams. Mostly because the discussions in Jams seem to be about the various songs which makes sense. When I took up rowing I spent weeks talking to a coach about the physics of the stroke, the recovery, pull, tracked every piece of data I could, installed sensors, bought a better sensor for my indoor rower and studied and studied and broke down the stroke to seconds in the various phases.

I’m totally willing to chat about this kind of stuff with the group on this forum but the response is always “just play however you want but just play”

I was expecting to spend a year or two optimizing my percussive strike on the hammer stroke with feedback and a clear set of goals for improvement. Then move for another year or two optimizing my left hand while at the same time learning everything I could about the entire fretboard and how and why the different parts work and the actual physics of it.

I truly suck at playing music mostly because I just don’t enjoy it. When I say I don’t listen to music, I mean that I spend a couple of hours rowing each day listening to an app that translates physics math and computer science journals into things that are read to me. I’ve tried the music but it always feels like a complete waste of time to not be actively working on time thing.


This feels like a rant. I had just observed that I went to another jam and it was as usual way out of my league.

I am not bad at playing music for lack of practice. I just don’t practice to learn how to play songs. I really want to learn to read and interpret actual sheet music. Any tune I learn I have transposed from tab into sheet music and memorized it and then played it from there. I have also desperately wanted to learn the physics of why songs sound good or not banjo or guitar or otherwise. Why is an A chosen after the note before it and why does it sound good to an ear. Those subjects are absolutely kore fascinating to me than the actual playing and sharing of the songs and working in groups like the jam sessions I’ve been to. There is an existential dread of the group of musicians sitting and playing things I’ve never heard of and imagining trying to figure them out without knowing the sheet music. I’ve pretty much realized banjo and the culture were a bad call. I just go camping a lot (like right now) and it’s so difficult to move a piano out with the airstream. When I say why I mean the actual equations of why taken from theory and vibrations.

I’m studying this fine on my own from textbooks and discussions with other faculty. The only reason for this original post was the sharing that I had attended a jam and realized that styles of music were more than just clawhammer or guitar. The transitions to gypsy jazz vs blues vs whatever else the group sifted from song to song were almost too much to interpret and so fast that I can’t begin to describe them.

This is not a complaint nor was the first post a complaint about the jam. I was completely amazed at the level of capability and speed and raw knowledge and skill expressed. It was also completely beyond my ability to even interpret which was why I posted. Old Hickory was correct that I can barely tune my instrument and can’t do it without the tuner and check to see which string is which while I’m twisting them (just a mental block). I don’t use tab at all through recommendations here but i do completely memorize any song note by note and fret by fret. I just about have every fret memorized for each note in double C, double D, G and A And I love it. I love to imagine the song fret by fret and string by string and go through it from end to end by memory. It’s like exercises I do with other things in science and math and I enjoy it.

I’m clearly not taking the advice of everyone here to just join in jams and play or listen to music but those are simply not things I enjoy doing at all.

I once took a course in art appreciation that wasn’t about painting or beauty or appreciation in emotion. It was very rigorous in the interpretation of brush strokes and style and motivation and paints and varnishes. We had a choice for appreciating the art classically but I took the one on the technical appreciation and I loved it. That’s kind of how I’m approaching music and I’ve really learned that the fateful decision to buy a banjo just based on its shape and feel and appearance over another instrument (the guitars were hard to press the strings down for my fingers) was a bad decision. At the time I assumed music was notes and anything could be played on any instrument; like if one had the sheet music for Chopin etude 10 one could simply adapt that to the banjo or harp or sitar. I did not know at that time that a lot of music was cultural and based on feel and in flight interpretation.

jsinjin - Posted - 05/29/2026:  10:13:30

I actually think I did everything backwards. I wanted to learn about music and theory and I started with banjo. Since I really started thinking about it and looking there are several online forums dedicated to music theory specifically and even one dedicated to physics and music theory. I just happened to select banjo and out of ignorance didn’t think that most music instrument forums are dedicated to learning to play and play with others and I should have realized that. I have, however found a number of places where stringed instrument music theory whether guitar or bass or to a certain extent banjo, mandolin and even the odd lute are focused on the understanding of the scales and relationships between the notes. I can’t help it when I hear music all I want to know is “why did the composer select that note instead of another.”

I still sort of think, “the next note could be any of 22-25 frets times five different strings for every single note and it’s tough to process mentally which is why I play so slow. But now that I’ve found the forums on music theory I think I can just adapt the banjo as a set of frets and strings and use it as a tool for learning music theory and playing a couple of tunes that I memorize.

Owen - Posted - 05/29/2026:  10:41:19

Tongue-in-cheek, "I actually think I did everything backwards. [...] I started with banjo." is one faux pas I didn't make. 

I found so many wrong notes on the "no-wrong-notes" strum stick that I switched .... to banjo.   

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 06/02/2026:  22:47:34

quote:

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Originally posted by jsinjin

At the time I assumed music was notes and anything could be played on any instrument; like if one had the sheet music for Chopin etude 10 one could simply adapt that to the banjo or harp or sitar. I did not know at that time that a lot of music was cultural and based on feel and in flight interpretation.

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On the back cover of Pete Seeger's "How to Play the 5-String Banjo" is the following quote:

"...can I read notes? Hell, there are no notes to a banjo. You just play it.

Reply made by an old-time banjo-picker, interviewed around 1850, and asked if he could read music."

Don't beat yourself up.  In my 20 years on the BHO and 57 years playing banjo, there have been countless times when someone expressed the opinion that one could (or should be able to) play any song in any key in any tuning on the banjo.  This can somehow seem logical until one actually picks up the instrument, and runs head on into reality.

Musical instruments are tools and selecting the right tool for the job is essential, whether you are trying to drive a nail, plane a board, or play an old-time tune.  Things most often become established tradition because over time they have been found to work best that way.  Not that innovation has no place, but flying in the face of a couple of centuries of practical experience does not usually meet with success, and often leads to "reinventing the wheel" to a greater or lesser degree.

Clawhammer banjo is eminently suited to the purpose for which it was designed and has evolved to fulfill.

John, you seem to have different goals and criteria than the typical aspiring banjoista.  Most of the students I've had have been able to play good basic clawhammer arrangements in 6 months, but then that was their goal.  It's a different approach with different a different mindset. 

In spite of what frustration you may have, I hope that you will continue to post about your experience with the banjo here on the Hangout.  Everyone's experiences and observations are of value.

jsinjin - Posted - 06/03/2026:  05:48:24

Ha. How topical. I have a group of people I workout with every mornjng. We have been working out at 5 am daily for 18-19 years now. We are all dads from the local elementary school all with kids who have gone k-college and after every workout we have coffee on the front porch. One of the guys has a daughter going off to Berklee in the roots program and she came this morning to see my coffee system (coffee and extraction of espresso is my hobby and art form way beyond music) and to “play with her dad and us”. It was her graduation party that started all of this. I have to say she was completely patient with her dad (a beginner fiddle player) and my friend david on mandolin and Don on guitars and me flailing around on banjo and it was very pleasant to get through cluck ol hen as a group. It’s definitely slow for all of us and does not sound good but it was playing. So it is possible for an expert to play with new players. But the coffee probably helped the most.

I began listening to some different clawhammer players on YouTube last week while out camping and one style of music that showed up that I actually appreciated was “delta blues” which definitely isn’t old time but it was fascinating to hear that style

m.youtube.com/watch?v=SR3eHELs...HAQ%3D%3D

So maybe I like that kind of music.

I don’t know!

ancient tones - Posted - 06/03/2026:  08:48:56

It sounds like you're on your way to starting a Jam group?

Nice link. Thank you!

I'm a coffee hobby guy too. Home roasting to fancy grinders and espresso machine.

jsinjin - Posted - 06/03/2026:  13:27:21

quote:

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Originally posted by ancient tones

It sounds like you're on your way to starting a Jam group?



Nice link. Thank you!



I'm a coffee hobby guy too. Home roasting to fancy grinders and espresso machine.

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I doubt it!   We mostly do workouts and coffee.   We just use my house because of the porches and I have the coffee machine 

banjoboyd - Posted - 06/04/2026:  17:59:50

To add to what R.D. said, clawhammer banjo is really a musical niche (of a niche), and it's built-in limitations are the same things that make it interesting. We all hope you keep at the banjo, but no one expects you to be "loyal" to it. If you're more interesting in the music theory side of things, then get a portable keyboard. Really, why not?

jsinjin - Posted - 06/04/2026:  18:46:42

quote:

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Originally posted by banjoboyd

To add to what R.D. said, clawhammer banjo is really a musical niche (of a niche), and it's built-in limitations are the same things that make it interesting. We all hope you keep at the banjo, but no one expects you to be "loyal" to it. If you're more interesting in the music theory side of things, then get a portable keyboard. Really, why not?

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We actually have a baby grand Yamaha in the entry way of the house.   It's just hard to take camping.