STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/13/2026:  05:01:16

Clawhammer..is some thing I would like to explore..
Right now it is or has been very difficult to get the technique..of it down...

Lack of coordination on me part... :0/

The question is..dose a scooped neck really help..?
I have open backs..
But how well they are set up for clawhammer..idk..

banjo bill-e - Posted - 05/13/2026:  05:45:42

You don't need a scoop. The technique is hard to get your head around at first. Don't blame your banjo!

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/13/2026:  05:59:35

The "scoop" as we currently know it (excluding aesthetic designs of "early rimmed banjos") for playing in the position and method of Kyle Creed (despite the fact that Creed did not use, nor make banjos with "scoops") was developed by Bob Flesher in 1965.

Somehow people seemed to manage for over 100 years playing in the orignial "banjo style"/"stroke style"/"thimble style" without a "scoop".

"Scoops" must be part of the "modern playability" I keep being told about (opposed to "traditional playability").

Nopix - Posted - 05/13/2026:  06:10:55

Dude! I'm about your age. Playing since 1979. I've tried and tried. I wish you the Best of Luck!

GMB - Posted - 05/13/2026:  06:31:57

You have to start real slow. Tom Collins. Banjo Quest on you tube is excellent.

Mad Hornet - Posted - 05/13/2026:  06:37:30

I started learning on a bluegrass resonator banjo and was able to get the hang of it. I still struggle mixing in up-picking but most of the songs I play don't involve that.

I do have a couple openbacks with scoops and they help in two ways. Higher action which I think helps with drop-thumb (might be psychological?) and tone. Without a scoop you want to play as close to the rim as possible.

Rusty - Posted - 05/13/2026:  06:56:43

I started playing Scruggs style in 1979, I switched to clawhammer style in 2019, I tried on my own for a few years, and I struggled. Then I started lessons with a local teacher, first lesson he got me to play the standard bum dirty, since then I’m loving it! Take a few lessons, it’s the best investment you’ll make.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/13/2026:  07:02:56

Struggle...!
I must look like n feel like a Doofus..trying this with any coordination..

Looks simple but it is not..at least to me... :0/

All advice is appreciated.. :0)

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/13/2026:  07:03:59

I will keep peckin at it tho... :0)

Texasbanjo - Posted - 05/13/2026:  08:13:23

I also had a difficult time at first, learning the bum ditty type picking, but once you get the rhythm down and get the fingers working, it suddenly isn't that difficult. I found, for me, that it was easier to use the thumb and middle finger rather than index. You might see if using a different finger for the up-pick will help you.

Keep after it, you'll eventually get that light bulb moment and it will be easier.

janolov - Posted - 05/13/2026:  08:53:07

Scope and resonator/open back has nothing to do with the clawhammer technique, so you can play clawhammer on your Bluegrass banjo. The sound depends more on the banjoist than on the banjo!

There are special clawhammer picks, but I think God created us with nails on the outside of the fingers so we could play clawhammer without picks!

tonygo - Posted - 05/13/2026:  09:39:27

Keep at it, everyday. It is like riding a bicycle, once you get it you never forget it. But you gots to pay your dues.

pinenut - Posted - 05/13/2026:  10:04:00

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

Struggle...!

I must look like n feel like a Doofus..trying this with any coordination..  Nope, it is a different pace and philosophy.  2F/3F/clawhammer styles are commonly used to support, echo, fill-in and showcase the vocalist or melody maker.  It means we get more active-play-time with the other instruments/vocalists, as long as we stick to the 'non-compete agreement' that is embedded in these styles.



Looks simple but it is not..at least to me... :0/



All advice is appreciated.. :0)

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Choose a tune that you know, really know, and is well supported (audio/video/notation/tab/lyrics).

Start there and be patient with yourself.

Edited by - pinenut on 05/13/2026 10:15:13

Alvin Conder - Posted - 05/13/2026:  12:04:40

No need for a scoop…on any level. Allows one to develop bad playing habits.

Like you, I started out fingerpicking Scruggs style and related players. Started playing Clawhammer/Frailing/knockdown or whatever it’s called when I was 15 or so…some (good G-d!!!) 50 years ago. Scruggs style was and is an effort for me, the Clawhammer, real easy.

Everyone is different in how they learn and what comes easy to them. What I do know, lots and lots of play time and practice gets you where you need to be, so don’t give up. If it was easy, everyone would be playing banjo instead of guitars…

pinenut - Posted - 05/13/2026:  12:40:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alvin Conder

No need for a scoop…on any level. Allows one to develop bad playing habits.

---

Hi Alvin and the rest of the community,

The common bad playing habit that I am aware of is not using all of the left hand fretting fingers. 

What are some other examples of a bad banjo habits in general that aren't actually "ages and stages" stuff?

And specifically, what bad playing habits does a scoop enable?  (straight question, not an argument pro/con scoops)

Cheers, Kam

Edited by - pinenut on 05/13/2026 12:48:10

cow_tools - Posted - 05/13/2026:  13:31:52

From what I understand, the scoop gives a clearance which allows for a lower string action when playing with the right hand over the fretboard. It does seem to make that a bit easier, but they aren't necessary by any means (not to mention completely useless if you intend on playing over the banjo's head). People here tend to have very strong opinions against them which I assume is because they're a modern development that were never a feature in older banjos. I don't have any strong views on them one way or another, but I personally would rather have the high frets intact since I don't limit myself to playing one particular style on any of my banjos.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/13/2026:  16:32:57

Hope this Eureaka moment comes bloody soon... :0/

Doofus here...

Nopix - Posted - 05/13/2026:  16:55:33

Thanks for the Tom Collins hint!
Never knew the difference from drop thumb and clawhammer.

Good Lord!

pinenut - Posted - 05/13/2026:  20:19:28

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

Hope this Eureaka moment comes bloody soon... :0/

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Nope, it takes weeks and months to change an established groove. 

The slap and tickle cloppity clop is very different from the rolling wall of sound.

Put your 'chosen' tune on replay in the background and listen to it all day for as many weeks as it takes... 

Work at playing the chosen tune in the morning, listen to it all day and work at it just before sleep; repeat until sorta-dun and move to the next one.

Edited by - pinenut on 05/13/2026 20:27:57

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/14/2026:  05:14:20

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

Hope this Eureaka moment comes bloody soon... :0/

---

Nope, it takes weeks and months to change an established groove. 

The slap and tickle cloppity clop is very different from the rolling wall of sound.

Put your 'chosen' tune on replay in the background and listen to it all day for as many weeks as it takes... 

Work at playing the chosen tune in the morning, listen to it all day and work at it just before sleep; repeat until sorta-dun and move to the next one.

---

Ok....

I'll just keep Doofussing along till I get there...

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/14/2026:  05:18:01

Course..if i aquire..a.. banjo..
Purely...set up...for claw hammer..
I might do better...

Gotta practice that line...
As so I can deliver it ..good..to me better half... ;0)

paulhealey - Posted - 05/14/2026:  05:30:47

I don’t think a scoop is necessary. I like having access to the upper frets and with a bit of practice you can learn to play over the neck if you really want to.
I have an older banjo with a lot of hooks, and even if I did have a scoop, it would have to angle my arm uncomfortably to avoid a hook, so it wasn’t worth it for me. I just play near the top of the head and am happy.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/14/2026:  06:15:12

It's the thumb part..

I know to land on the 5th string every time..
But having a hard time to get it to ring..
Trying to not use me wrist ..n use me whole arm..

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/14/2026:  06:18:45

I have a woddie archtop banjo..that seems to play ..."better"..fer me...
Playing close to the arch groove..

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/14/2026:  06:27:59

I think i mute the 5Th string with the bottom fleshy part of me hand..

pinenut - Posted - 05/14/2026:  07:19:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

It's the thumb part..

I know to land on the 5th string every time..  But having a hard time to get it to ring..  meh, land it where it can until it does.  Thump the head with your thumb (beat) and play melody/skip notes (finger) for an alternative practice (fun, valid technique)



Trying to not use me wrist ..n use me whole arm..  The wrist is very active with snap and thumb placement, even if the power comes from the elbow (which is also occupied pinning the armrest)

I think i mute the 5Th string with the bottom fleshy part of me hand..  this should go away as speed picks up (cock the wrist into more of an 'evil' claw, tiny change)

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This is all normal and you are making good progress.  The fact that you're noticing these things is good.  Give your brain and body time to sort it out.

Edited by - pinenut on 05/14/2026 07:34:45

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/14/2026:  14:18:10

I have seen folks play clawhammer with finger picks, although much more rarely now than in the past.  If you do, you'll want to reverse the pick on your finger so that the blade of the pick is against your fingernail.  Though I don't use picks, one advantage might be consistency of sound.  Classical guitarists pay a lot of attention to filing and shaping their nails for tonal considerations.  I think in general us clawhammeristas are less particular, though I have noted a difference depending on how my nails are cut... they all grow back, right?

A banjo-player from my youth named Art Chambers used a plastic thumb-pick, a plastic pick on his index for up-picking, and a plastic pick reversed on his middle for down-picking.  He called his style "drop-thumb frailing".  Art was from Georgia, but I new him In L.A. in the days of Earl Collins, and Mel Durham.

Scoops? I'm so old, I remember when banjoes didn't have them.  My Mike Ramsey (#141, dated 1996) was my first scooped banjo.  I guess it can help a bit if you're playing over the fingerboard.  I always used a 5/8"-3/4" bridge and it provided enough clearance.  The Kyle Creed- play over the fingerboard thing is comparatively recent (unless you came from Round Peak).  All the old-timers I knew played over the head- I'll admit that as the years have passed I do play where the neck meets the rim, or slightly over the fingerboard, and my main fretted banjo has a scoop, though I don't really need it.

Resonators- There are too many examples to list of great old-time players from the past that played on resonated banjoes.  All of the old-timers I knew bought the snazziest banjo they could afford once thay had the money- masterclones, etc.  And... most of the time if you asked to hear a banjo tune, they'd pull something like a Harmony or a Kay out from under the bed, and it always had a resonator.  The old-timers weren't trying to be old-timers.

The banjoes you have are probably just fine.  Without seeing any of them, I'd just say that you may possibly need a taller bridge and maybe medium gauge strings, if they don't already have them.  The main thing at this point is playability for clawhammer.  My first banjo was a Harmony, and then an RB-250 for 22 years!

I heartily recommend taking a look at this video by Mike Iverson:  Clawhammer Banjo - Three Different Right Hand Approaches

The advice I offer ad nauseum is play as slow as you have to to keep from making mistakes, even if it is at 1/8th speed.   Otherwise you will be programming bad technique into muscle memory.  

Get good instruction from the outset- either a good teacher or one of the many good on-line videos.  Also DVD's or even skype lessons that are offered by some really good players.  Feedback is valuable to be sure you are on the right track.  I was fortunate that my Dad played banjo.  He didn't give me lessons per se, but I could hear and see what he was doing first hand. Back in those days, instructional material was really minimal- Pete Seeger's book was about it, and there was John Burke's fiddle tunes for clawhammer collection (not instructional by any means).

One of the main defects I have seen is in the sort of instruction that makes drop-thumbing difficult if not impossible down the road.

Welcome to the clawmammer club figmo.  We'll be interested in your progress.  Never hesitate to ask *any and all* questions you may have

Nopix - Posted - 05/14/2026:  17:27:14

It's not my thumb. It's my brain.
Fingers don't go down to sound a string.
Fingers go up to sound a string.
Can't seem to un-wire that.

I see Molly Tuttle flatpick, then turn around and play a tune clawhammer. ( mind-blown!)

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/15/2026:  05:06:38

Well i tried to post a video of me efforts but no soap on that..

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/15/2026:  05:25:28

I am in ct ..near Norwich..
Any claw hammer players near by..?

Dean T - Posted - 05/15/2026:  06:26:42

Here ya go… put on your picks like normal, but add a 4th pick on your ring finger. So thumb and three fingers. Now pick I-(M+R)-T for a nice clean boom-chuck-a. There you go, a nice fake clawhammer for us brain challenged up pickers.

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/15/2026:  07:32:01

I use 4 picks too..
I do that too..

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/16/2026:  03:57:52

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

I am in ct ..near Norwich..

Any claw hammer players near by..?

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I figger it can not hurt to ask twice.. :0)

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/16/2026:  03:59:26

I think...I may have improved a ...little...

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/16/2026:  05:59:11

quote:

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Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

 

A banjo-player from my youth named Art Chambers used a plastic thumb-pick, a plastic pick on his index for up-picking, and a plastic pick reversed on his middle for down-picking.  He called his style "drop-thumb frailing".  Art was from Georgia, but I new him In L.A. in the days of Earl Collins, and Mel Durham.

---

This was the "basic strum" as taught by Seeger.  Most people do not realize that the reason they strike with their middle is due to Seeger and the folk revival.

Every singe print mention of "banjo style" (striking with thumb plucking) before the revival specified the index.

Since Seeger did his basic strum, he struck with his middle... all other middle players followed.

"Clawhammer" was what Seeger called bluegrass fingerstyle, strangely enough.

Owen - Posted - 05/16/2026:  07:00:51

quote:

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Originally posted by STUD figmo Al

I think...I may have improved a ...little...

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By my standards, ^^ sounds like you're a prodigy.  

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/18/2026:  06:28:14

Boy...
20 years of finger pickin one way..

Now totally different ...

The claw hammer part is improving..a bit..

But I also find in the middle of trying to get that part down..
I just go inta ..up picking?

Not that it sounds bad... Just a coordination thing... :0/

 

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/18/2026:  14:37:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

 

A banjo-player from my youth named Art Chambers used a plastic thumb-pick, a plastic pick on his index for up-picking, and a plastic pick reversed on his middle for down-picking.  He called his style "drop-thumb frailing".  Art was from Georgia, but I new him In L.A. in the days of Earl Collins, and Mel Durham.

---

This was the "basic strum" as taught by Seeger.  Most people do not realize that the reason they strike with their middle is due to Seeger and the folk revival.

Every singe print mention of "banjo style" (striking with thumb plucking) before the revival specified the index.

Since Seeger did his basic strum, he struck with his middle... all other middle players followed.

"Clawhammer" was what Seeger called bluegrass fingerstyle, strangely enough.

---

Yes, I also noted Seeger's  curious usage of the term "clawhammer".

Everybody used to "frail", but now they all "clawhammer".  My Dad's compadres in Chariton Co., MO used neither term.  On the "Uncle Wade" LP,  Katy Hill mentioned that  "...Uncle Wade clawhammered all the time", so it was/is a regional term that got popularized.  It does sound tougher and cooler than "frailing"!

*************************************

Similarity notwithstanding, Art Chambers was of an age that he would have picked his style up locally in Georgia, so it was a traditional approach pre-dating Seeger, though as has been noted, the technique is connected  to Seeger.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/18/2026:  15:20:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

 

A banjo-player from my youth named Art Chambers used a plastic thumb-pick, a plastic pick on his index for up-picking, and a plastic pick reversed on his middle for down-picking.  He called his style "drop-thumb frailing".  Art was from Georgia, but I new him In L.A. in the days of Earl Collins, and Mel Durham.

---

This was the "basic strum" as taught by Seeger.  Most people do not realize that the reason they strike with their middle is due to Seeger and the folk revival.

Every singe print mention of "banjo style" (striking with thumb plucking) before the revival specified the index.

Since Seeger did his basic strum, he struck with his middle... all other middle players followed.

"Clawhammer" was what Seeger called bluegrass fingerstyle, strangely enough.

---

Yes, I also noted Seeger's  curious usage of the term "clawhammer".

Everybody used to "frail", but now they all "clawhammer".  My Dad's compadres in Chariton Co., MO used neither term.  On the "Uncle Wade" LP,  Katy Hill mentioned that  "...Uncle Wade clawhammered all the time", so it was/is a regional term that got popularized.  It does sound tougher and cooler than "frailing"!

*************************************

Similarity notwithstanding, Art Chambers was of an age that he would have picked his style up locally in Georgia, so it was a traditional approach pre-dating Seeger, though as has been noted, the technique is connected  to Seeger.

 

---

Katy Hill was using the term "clawhammer" in 1973.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 05/18/2026:  17:19:45

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

 

Katy Hill was using the term "clawhammer" in 1973.

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Yep, and likely long before that.  I'll go out on a limb and guess that if there was a different local name for the style, she would have used that.

Don Borchelt - Posted - 05/19/2026:  08:00:41

For about twenty years, I played banjo duets with my close friend, clawhammer picker Ed Britt. Ed was an industrial designer by trade, so he was always looking for a better way to make something, and at one point, he came up with his own clawhammer finger pick design. Ed passed in 2021, and in what was essentially an obituary I wrote for the Banjo Newsletter, I described as best I could how he made it:



"About ten years ago, Ed made his own clawhammer pick, elegantly simple but different from any other I have seen. Ed took a simple brass pipe and cut off a section at a 45 degree angle (see sketch). He then took that section to a friend’s machine shop, where it was pounded over a cone shaped swaging tool until it just fit his right index finger perfectly. He then polished the metal edges to perfection, and as a final step, covered the entire exterior with a very thin layer of calfskin. The result was a pick that was more secure on the finger and more closely replicated the sound of the natural fingernail than any other I have seen. Ed did not believe that “the perfect was the enemy of the good.” We came up with an estimate of what it would take to market, and manufacture each custom fit pick, and realized it would have to be priced at $300 or $400 to make it worthwhile."

STUD figmo Al - Posted - 05/19/2026:  08:29:25

I made one many years ago..
Fer me Brother in law..
Heh... the guy that got me started in all this folly... :0)

I silver soldered 2 Dunlop pics together..
I never used it..but he did..when he damaged his picking finger nail.

easy - Posted - 05/20/2026:  15:27:56

So, I dunno if it's just the way I learned, or if it's standard, but on the bum-ditty, I don't really "pick" the fifth string with my thumb: rather, on the "brush" part of the stroke (the part where you use the back of your middle/ring finger nails) - the "dit" in "ditty" - I "prime" my thumb on the fifth string by landing it on the fifth string without plucking, and then I do more of a pulloff with my thumb on the fifth string for the "ty" in "ditty". I've found this effective whether I have my thumbnail grown out long, or whether it's short. LMK i this helps,
Easy

reallyoldman - Posted - 05/21/2026:  08:58:20

A couple of thoughts. I am not aware that a banjo has to be set up to play clawhammer. It can be played on any banjo as far as I know. I am almost 90 yers old and when I took up the 5 string 9 years ago after a hiatus of nearly 50 years, I started playing clawhammer on my 1960 Vega open back. I then got a resonator after about 5 years and played clawhammer on that and added two finger drop thump picking s well. Either can be played on the resonator or open back. As I understand it, drop thumb is just a type of clawhammer where instead of sticking the 5th string on every note, you can sake the fourth or third instead, at least that is how I am playing.
There is a series of videos by Barry Hunn on Deering/videos that takes you step by step on developing clawhammer. That are very simple and straightforward but show you how to do it. BTW, I do use the middle finger for both of these styles instead of the index, and it works better for me