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BG Banjo - Posted - 03/16/2026: 10:52:29
I have a Gold Tone CC-Carlin12. When I tighten the J hooks they are twisting on the tension hoop. The twisting causes the hook part to bend to the point that they will no longer hold and then pop off. I remove the hook, bend it back into shape and we start all over. Any advise, insight or opinions?
The Old Timer - Posted - 03/16/2026: 10:54:39
Is the lower edge of the tension hoop fetching up on the cut out in the heel? Or on any of the tension hook (or tailpiece) shoes? This is the surest way to break tension hoop tips. You're tightening but the tension hoop is firmly blocked from descending any further.
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/16/2026: 11:03:29
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Timer
Is the lower edge of the tension hoop fetching up on the cut out in the heel? Or on any of the tension hook (or tailpiece) shoes? This is the surest way to break tension hoop tips. You're tightening but the tension hoop is firmly blocked from descending any further.
I went down and checked. There is clearance there. But I can see what you are explaining and it is something I will keep an eye on. Thank you.
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/16/2026: 12:00:14
quote:
Originally posted by The Old Timer
Is the lower edge of the tension hoop fetching up on the cut out in the heel? Or on any of the tension hook (or tailpiece) shoes? This is the surest way to break tension hoop tips. You're tightening but the tension hoop is firmly blocked from descending any further.
Looking closer, I can see where the tension hoop is cocked just a little, almost imperceptible, but it is. I am going to loosen everything up and try to get it more even. I don't know if that is the problem with the hooks, but it is a problem none the less. I'm learning every day. Thanks.
Edited by - BG Banjo on 03/16/2026 12:00:55
banjonz - Posted - 03/16/2026: 14:53:20
Theoretically, the 'hook' part of the J hooks need to evenly match the top profile of the tension band. If they don't then they can't 'catch' under tension, hence the issue you are having.
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/16/2026: 15:07:57
quote:
Originally posted by banjonz
Theoretically, the 'hook' part of the J hooks need to evenly match the top profile of the tension band. If they don't then they can't 'catch' under tension, hence the issue you are having.
So messing with it and trying to keep one from twisting, The hook end does not go completely over the top of the tension hoop. I broke it. I sent an email to GT with a picture. We will see what they say.
Edited by - BG Banjo on 03/16/2026 15:10:08
steen - Posted - 03/16/2026: 15:17:47
I believe that those flat hooks are the cheapest and weekest on the market. Many people have experienced that they straighten out even before a normal tightness of the head. I think i would get some other hooks. There are good flat hooks out there. I don´t understand why Gold Tone will use them. Steen
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/16/2026: 15:43:17
quote:
Originally posted by steen
I believe that those flat hooks are the cheapest and weekest on the market. Many people have experienced that they straighten out even before a normal tightness of the head. I think i would get some other hooks. There are good flat hooks out there. I don´t understand why Gold Tone will use them. Steen
Do you have a link to some better flat hooks? Because I would change them out for something better. I really like the banjo.
Edited by - BG Banjo on 03/16/2026 15:45:37
martyjoe - Posted - 03/16/2026: 16:29:30
Make sure to lubricate The nuts and the threads. And it wouldn’t hurt to hold the hooks steady with some pliers as you tighten them.
Banner Blue - Posted - 03/16/2026: 16:55:35
Do all the hooks do this or just some of them?
Dean T - Posted - 03/16/2026: 19:09:46
I do not know if a Deering Goodtime J hook would fit. Maybe some one who knows could chime in. But I’ve had two modern Goodtimes, one a 12” and one an 11”, both only having 16 hooks each, and I was able to set the heads at 90 on the drum dial, and they did not bend or twist at all. Both banjos are still going strong with people I keep in touch with. It's hard to imagine hooks bending on a banjo with 23 hooks!
deeringbanjos.com/collections/...t-j-hooks
Edited by - Dean T on 03/16/2026 19:19:32
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/17/2026: 06:33:54
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Blue
Do all the hooks do this or just some of them?
It started with one, then a couple more. Now probably half of them are. I did start using a pliers to hold them from twisting, but eventually the hook just loses the radius and they pop off. I was bending them back, but yesterday one broke doing that. I think that Steen is right, they are just soft metal and not very good hooks. Which is surprising, as the banjo itself is very nice. I'm going to look around for some better ones. I will look at the Deering hooks to start.
Edited by - BG Banjo on 03/17/2026 06:35:39
martyjoe - Posted - 03/17/2026: 07:32:16
This one way around it. Double up on the amount of hooks.
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/17/2026: 07:47:35
quote:
Originally posted by Dean T
It's hard to imagine hooks bending on a banjo with 23 hooks!
deeringbanjos.com/collections/...t-j-hooks
They are pot metal it appears and they bend easily. But the radius of the hook does not go completely over the radius of the tension hoop.. It looks like a design flaw to me. They are more an L than a J, which allows them to twist out of shape.
Edited by - BG Banjo on 03/17/2026 07:49:12
steen - Posted - 03/17/2026: 08:35:21
Hi BG. I believe the ones I bought many years ago was from StewMac. The flat part of the hook is flat on the inside but nice and smooth rounded on the outside. I Think they were of nickel plated steel - strong and pretty and vintage looking. They also sold some "ball end like" nuts. Not exactly Vega style but good enough for my need. I do not know if Stewmac sell these things anymore.
I have on the net seen some that I think look like them ; Golden Gate - P44 1920 style - vintage style. And maybe others have them, maybe someone can help?? They should ONLY be flat inside and they should not have this inforcement strip in the middle.
The best of luck. I hope you can find something :) Steen
Banner Blue - Posted - 03/17/2026: 09:16:48
Pretty clear that the problem is cheap hooks that are slowly deteriorating under tension.
Know the difference between flat and round hooks when you buy replacements. They are not always interchangeable. Elderly, Stewmac, Balsam Banjo and Ode Banjo are all sources of good steel and brass hooks. Even quality solid brass hooks (not brass coated steel) will only work on banjos with 20+ hooks. They will break if used on banjos with fewer hooks as there is too much tension on each hook.
martyjoe - Posted - 03/17/2026: 14:17:17
I got sick and tired of replacing hooks every time I worked on the banjo pictured above so I bought heaps of spares from China on eBay and as you can see I bought extra matching shoes even then I had to be careful tightening them up but when the job was done I was very satisfied. It didn’t really cost a lot but it did make the banjo a lot better. I think I had the head up to 94 on my drum dial at one stage. Now I just have to get rid of that horrible fiberskin head.
banjered - Posted - 03/18/2026: 19:51:44
Yep, cheap pot metal from China. banjered
RBuddy - Posted - 03/19/2026: 06:44:20
Try sticking a magnet to your hooks. I doubt anyone would make pot metal hooks.
The twisting action is most likely caused by poor threads on the hook or nut causing the threads to catch and twist the hook. A small amount of oil as suggested should help. If you see the hooks start to deform, quit turning the nut as you are overloading the parts and failure will result.
The hooks could still be poorly made of soft steel or bad design. Also as suggested, I'd look for new hooks and nuts from a reputable source.
Ira Gitlin - Posted - 03/19/2026: 07:17:36
Am I the only one who saw this thread title and thought it was about our esteemed BHO member Joel?
GrahamHawker - Posted - 03/19/2026: 07:50:12
I've found this not to be unusual on banjos with this sort of hook. Some are worse then others. I use pliers to hold the hook in place on the tension hoop while I tighten it.
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/19/2026: 10:44:54
I fired off an email to Gold Tone the day before yesterday. They sent me an email back today and are sending me more hooks. So at least I have replacements for the ones bending and twisting. I will hold them with a pliers to keep them from twisting and see how that goes, but the twisting is not the only problem, the hook part giving up and then popping off is a problem too.
I think I will continue to look for some better hooks. But I have something on Sunday and I need to get through the next few weeks with it before I have some down time to really mess with it. If I can get that one replaced I'll leave well enough alone for a while. Thanks for all the input and advise. I appreciate it.
Edited by - BG Banjo on 03/19/2026 10:48:16
pinenut - Posted - 03/19/2026: 11:44:51
quote:
Originally posted by BG Banjo
I think I will continue to look for some better hooks. But I have something on Sunday and I need to get through the next few weeks with it before I have some down time to really mess with it. If I can get that one replaced I'll leave well enough alone for a while. Thanks for all the input and advise. I appreciate it.
The asian flat hooks with the heavy ridge are bad news and the Golden Gate P-44 or the better StewMac flat hooks probably won't grip the existing tension hoop correctly. Typical flat hooks will need a grooved tension hoop or a well beveled one like Deering uses.
I think the only option that may fit the existing tension hoop are modern Goodtime flat hooks. And, like Dean T says, "I was able to set the heads at 90 on the drum dial, and they did not bend or twist at all". This is my experience with the Goodtime hooks too.
About the twisting. Even those ridged hooks should hold straight with a thumb while tightening the nuts (no pliers). Check the threads for easy turning off-banjo: break them in and brush them smooth. Apply paste wax to the threads before installation.
Below: Gold Tone CC-Carlin12
Edited by - pinenut on 03/19/2026 11:47:09
GrahamHawker - Posted - 03/20/2026: 01:24:24
quote:
Originally posted by BG Banjo
I will hold them with a pliers to keep them from twisting and see how that goes, but the twisting is not the only problem, the hook part giving up and then popping off is a problem too.
I use the pliers to stop them popping off and use them on the hook part. I was told on here to use some material between the pliers and hook to protect the metalwork although I rarely do as it needs to be very thin so the pliers hold the hook.
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/20/2026: 08:18:57
quote:
Originally posted by GrahamHawker
quote:
Originally posted by BG Banjo
I will hold them with a pliers to keep them from twisting and see how that goes, but the twisting is not the only problem, the hook part giving up and then popping off is a problem too.
I use the pliers to stop them popping off and use them on the hook part. I was told on here to use some material between the pliers and hook to protect the metalwork although I rarely do as it needs to be very thin so the pliers hold the hook.
I have a pair on duckbill pliers that the jaws are smooth. It works well for the purpose.
Joel Hooks - Posted - 03/20/2026: 09:29:47
quote:
Originally posted by Ira Gitlin
Am I the only one who saw this thread title and thought it was about our esteemed BHO member Joel?
I do tend to get twisted.
TaterHead - Posted - 03/21/2026: 14:18:47
Same problem here ... but on a Recording King RKOH-06 open-back. I am new, but thought I'd at least try to see if the hooks were all similar tension. 3 were not tight, not loose, but not as tight as the others. One was too tight (didn't feel like more tight was an option) ... I loosened that one, then re-tightened to give it a similar snug to the others ... and the hook rolled over the top of the tension ring and popped off. Holding it or not, I could not re-tighten it without it popping off. I had to loosen the shoe, tighten the hook to 'good enough but not tight', then re-tighten the shoe to the rim ... the top edge of the shoe is against the rim, but there is a 1/64th inch gap between the shoe and rim at the bottom (away from drum head) end. It's a brand new banjo and it's going to their banjo repair guy for a little warranty work ... I'm betting the tip and shaft of the bum hook are both bent. I'd be HIGHLY interested in buying good strong steel or brass hooks if I knew where and what to buy...
pinenut - Posted - 03/21/2026: 20:05:40
quote:
Originally posted by TaterHead
Same problem here ... but on a Recording King RKOH-06 open-back. I am new, but thought I'd at least try to see if the hooks were all similar tension. 3 were not tight, not loose, but not as tight as the others. One was too tight (didn't feel like more tight was an option) ... I loosened that one, then re-tightened to give it a similar snug to the others ... and the hook rolled over the top of the tension ring and popped off. Holding it or not, I could not re-tighten it without it popping off. I had to loosen the shoe, tighten the hook to 'good enough but not tight', then re-tighten the shoe to the rim ... the top edge of the shoe is against the rim, but there is a 1/64th inch gap between the shoe and rim at the bottom (away from drum head) end. It's a brand new banjo and it's going to their banjo repair guy for a little warranty work ... I'm betting the tip and shaft of the bum hook are both bent. I'd be HIGHLY interested in buying good strong steel or brass hooks if I knew where and what to buy...
The problem is not just the ridged flat hooks; the shape of the tension hoop is wrong too.
Golden Gate P-44 flat hooks and P-13 tension hoop match up fine iff your banjo is an 11" rim. (practical upgrade)
The better domestic flat hooks are made to fit domestic tension hoops.
Neither are going to work well with the rounded top import tension hoop (Goodtime hooks might work).
TaterHead - Posted - 03/22/2026: 12:28:53
My Recording King RKOH-06 open-back has an 11" rim, I believe. The tension ring is round on top, not a flat surface. The tension hooks are also round (like a 'J') and the tip of the J-hook lands on the inside (towards center of banjo) of the rounded tension ring top ... past center of the tension ring's curved top. I'd love to find some nice strong steel tension hooks that would be a drop-in replacement for the ones the banjo came with. I'll start my telephone search tomorrow (Monday)... thanks.
Dry Ridge - Posted - 03/25/2026: 14:31:12
I have a CC-OT with the same hooks and the same issue although not as bad as yours sounds. I make sure to keep an eye on them when tightening and straighten them with needle nose pliers if they angle off. By the time you replace all the cheap Gold Tone hardware you could just sell it and upgrade to a Stone banjo. I have one of his custom made and it is a world of difference above the Gold Tone.
banjo bill-e - Posted - 03/26/2026: 06:05:46
My Enoch Tradesman has the same issue, sad to say. Any future banjos purchased will have a slotted hoop.
steen - Posted - 03/26/2026: 09:17:27
To BG Banjo and others,
If you go to Eagle Music, go on to Banjo - - Parts and accessories - brackets, keys, nuts & hooks, and a little down, you will find this: "Leader Banjo Co, Flat tension Hooks and rounded Nut. Matched pair". They are plated high tensil steel. It SEEMS to me, that they have a little wider curve and will maybe be better capable of handling a little wider tension hoop than stewmacs, that are best for slim tension bands and grooved hoops. The are not cheap, but we want the best for our banjos and have them for many years, and maybe it is your birthday soon :) . Good luck. Steen
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/27/2026: 06:35:42
I talked to Gold Tone. They don't seem to know what is causing them to twist other than perhaps the threads need cleaning and lubricated, which has been recommended here. Also, maybe I have them too tight. That is possible. They are s ending me a half dozen hooks to replace the ones I think are bending. I am still investigating options suggedted for better hooks. Someone suggested putting grooves it the tension hoop and using round hooks. He assured me it wasn't a big job. I am handy and have lots of tools. The one thing I'm not going to do is sell it and buy a new banjo just because the hooks aren't cooperating.
TaterHead - Posted - 03/27/2026: 06:44:36
Nice of gold tone to send those hooks!
steen - Posted - 03/27/2026: 09:30:41
To BG and Taterhead. I think the hooks I just mentioned above from Eagle Music might be a good replacement, since they are made of steel for high tensions.
P.S.: Some of the flat hooks you can find have a bend just below the flatness (see the first picture here from Dean). That is because, flat hooks can in some cases twist a little (as you know) :), and if the aluminum flesh hoop on the head reaches farther out than the tension hoop, it might press the hook away from the tension hoop so it can not get a good grip in this and might want to twist when tightened. So check all hooks and if any of the hooks is pressed away from the tension hoop, take it out put it in a vice, take a hammer and give it just a little bend. Normally it is not the problem with these hooks, (they are simply not strong enough) but in some cases it can be.
yes it is nice of Gold Tone to send some extra hooks, but in my opinion it would be nicer not to put them on banjos for sale to innocent people :) Best wishes. Steen
Edited by - steen on 03/27/2026 09:32:18
BG Banjo - Posted - 03/27/2026: 09:51:50
quote:
Originally posted by steen
To BG and Taterhead. I think the hooks I just mentioned above from Eagle Music might be a good replacement, since they are made of steel for high tensions.
P.S.: Some of the flat hooks you can find have a bend just below the flatness (see the first picture here from Dean). That is because, flat hooks can in some cases twist a little (as you know) :), and if the aluminum flesh hoop on the head reaches farther out than the tension hoop, it might press the hook away from the tension hoop so it can not get a good grip in this and might want to twist when tightened. So check all hooks and if any of the hooks is pressed away from the tension hoop, take it out put it in a vice, take a hammer and give it just a little bend. Normally it is not the problem with these hooks, (they are simply not strong enough) but in some cases it can be.
yes it is nice of Gold Tone to send some extra hooks, but in my opinion it would be nicer not to put them on banjos for sale to innocent people :) Best wishes. Steen
I looked at that Eagle Music site and it appears that they are in England, if that is the one you are talking about.
steen - Posted - 03/27/2026: 15:16:07
Yes you are right they are English, but it seems that they work close together with Deering, so I am almost certain that the straight flat steel hooks Eagle sells are the same as the bended ones Deering sells. Deering also have some straight ones they sell in combination with their armrests. I do not know if they will sell them alone. I think Deering bend the others, because they don´t bother having trouble with people where the hooks twist for the reason I mentioned above. I personally think the straight ones look a little nicer, if you do not have trouble wih an alu . flesh hoop that reaches further out than the tension hoop. :) Steen
P.S. Deering also sells the nice rounded nuts. But it is not impossible that your own Gold Tone nuts are compatible too. It depends on the threads of course.
Edited by - steen on 03/27/2026 15:21:23
BG Banjo - Posted - 04/02/2026: 08:29:12
An update, I got the replacement hooks from Gold Tone for the ones that have bent and they appear to be a little more substantial in the hook end itself. The hook part extends completely over the hoop and curls around it evenly. I have to wonder if it was a bad batch when they built my banjo. Anyway, It is my favorite banjo and it is good to have a full set of hooks on it again.
steen - Posted - 04/02/2026: 09:22:02
To BG.
Thanks for your update. So good to hear that you now have a solution that works for you :). Best wishes Steen
