UTM - Posted - 02/19/2026:  21:20:28

The folks from Old Time Pickin Parlor recently sold me a Vintage Fender Concert Tone banjo that they had listed recently in the BHO Marketplace. The salesman had the banjo in-hand for a phone conversation about it's condition. As I learned later, his comments were generally misleading and specifically failed to mention that the neck of the banjo had obviously been broken and repaired at the heel.



I paid asking price plus the specified shipping cost of $150 for insured normal UPS delivery. I requested a return privilege even though their ad stated 'No Returns" The salesman agreed to a 48 hour return privilege.



This part of the story ends well. After about 5,000 words of detailed explanation from me and the 14 photos that I provided them, we reached the agreement that I would receive a full credit on my credit card and they agreed to pay the return shipping cost. It got a bit heated at times but I'm satisfied with the out come.



 When the banjo arrived, I was immediately aware that the shipping container was unusually small for a full size resonator banjo. The exterior of the box was unblemished. When I opened it, it was obvious that whoever packaged the banjo knew nothing about protecting a banjo during shipment. There was less than a double hand full of paper and bubble wrap scraps in the entire box.



The case was a press fit in the length of the box with less than 1 inch of packing at the resonator end and a single sheet of light duty bubble wrap at the peg head end. When the box was taped shut the cushioning was effectively ZERO! The interior of the box was a light press fit to the height of the case and a sheet of heavy duty corrugated cardboard was jammed on either side of the case, creating a heavy press fit condition, again with ZERO cushioning. In the neck area of the case, there was ZERO filling. two strips of corrugated cardboard were positioned on either side of the neck area of the case but with no fill it provided ZERO cushioning.



When I opened the case, I saw that the neck had broken again where the poorly conceived and executed heel repair had failed. Before touching the banjo, I took 14 highly detailed photos of the unblemished exterior of the box, the interior of the box and packing materials as well as the area of the break in the neck with the unmistakable indication of the glue joint where the repair had been done.



When I called the seller, all the salesman said was ; "I'm sorry that has happened. UPS has been really violent with packages lately. Contact UPS and you'll get your money in a few days'.



As I mentioned, I have won the battle with the seller so I'm kind of good with that. The puzzling part for me is; when a return privilege is in play, who actually owns the banjo pending approval? Who should be the insured party ? Can the seller enter into an insurance contract that binds the buyer to be responsible for loss or damage even if the seller is grossly negligent? In this case, the insurance policy that I was charged for was, in my opinion, rendered null and void by the sellers actions.



Thanks in advance for sharing any experience you may have had with the ins and outs of insuring banjo shipments.

Edited by - UTM on 02/19/2026 21:45:20

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/20/2026:  03:14:24

Consider yourself fortunate!

It could have gone in another direction. The seller could have insisted that you file a claim. You got off easy this time!

UTM - Posted - 02/20/2026:  05:05:42

Of course you are right Mark. My initial concern was just how easily a seller that failed to disclose an obvious structural defect such as a slip-shod repair or as in this case simply a botched packaging process by an inexperience emploee could cost the buyer hundreds of dollars in shipping/return shipping fees; at best.

I do consider myself fortunate, because in this case the undisclosed repair and others issues would not have been the central issue if I had to end up protesting the transaction.

Hopefully, the photographic evidence showing the unblemished exterior of the box would have proven that UPS was not responsible. I was certain that the sellers "...contact UPS..." comment was simply a ploy to slow-walk my request for a voluntary refund. I suppose to their credit, they could see that a refund was the best way for them to proceed.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/20/2026:  06:16:23

Just curious….

How long and how hard did you have to debate/argue for a refund?

I assume they did not make it easy for you?

Am I correct?

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/20/2026:  06:28:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by UTM

Of course you are right Mark. My initial concern was just how easily a seller that failed to disclose an obvious structural defect such as a slip-shod repair or as in this case simply a botched packaging process by an inexperience emploee could cost the buyer hundreds of dollars in shipping/return shipping fees; at best.



 

---

Of course... they don't want you to look under the hood!!!

 

Do not be surprised by this!

As this economy continues to tighten and as profit margins are diminishing retailers are going to play fast and loose. Perhaps engaging in behavior that would have previously been unacceptable!

I have already observed some shops and businesses trying to downplay repairs and concerns regarding instruments! Another reason I would insist on an "in hand" description of any instrument purchased from a shop! They won't like the time they have to spend with you on the phone.

My response: "That's too bad, you want to make a sale, then accurately describe what you are selling!"

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 02/20/2026 06:30:09

UTM - Posted - 02/20/2026:  07:47:18

Over a 6 day period, we exchanged 12 E-mail messages and two phone calls. So doing the right thing was not their "A" plan. As you said, fortunate for me that there was not much wiggle room on their side of the ball.

Full disclosure; I was able to locate a vintage Concert Tone neck thru a friend of mine, so I made them an offer for the remains of the Concert Tone banjo. My plan was to piece together a useable banjo. However, one of the glitches to that plan was that the banjo arrived without the iconic fancy gold plated Concert Tone engraved arm rest. I had failed to pick up that fact in the 'long-shot' photos in their ad.

That is on me. When the text of the ad said that the banjo was in "great shape", I assumed too much and let my guard down. When I received the banjo and there was no arm rest at all, I went back to look at the photos in their ad. I found that it had been "vanished". Not SOLD, not PENDING APPROVAL, no PENDING PAYMENT not HIDDEN, not listed on their member profile under classifieds or activities, it had just "vanished". When I questioned the "vanishing" later, the seller said that it was standard procedure for them "...so the masses would not get confused...".

Again, I'm glad that they finally decided to settle. I avoided any loss or additional costs and am certainly the wiser for the experience. My original questions are still out there. Any help in understanding how the shipping insurance thing works would be appreciated.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 02/20/2026:  08:58:16

The shipping insurance is basically worthless.

UPS broke one of my fiddle bows last year!
It was insured.
It was a monumental task to get them to pay even a fraction of the value!

They needed:

1. Pictures of the box
2. Pictures of packing material
3. Pictures of broken bow
4. Third party verification of value of the bow
5. Advised me to save the box and packing material

After three weeks, I received a check for a fraction of the value!

The onus is ALWAYS on the shipper/receiver to prove they have experienced a loss of value.

Making the insured/customer "whole" again is way down on their list of priorities!

The Old Timer - Posted - 02/20/2026:  09:30:28

This is not about musical instruments, but I found out Postal "insurance" is on the RECEIVER to collect, even though the SHIPPED paid for the insurance.

It was a small Priority Mail box with a Christmas gift debit card and a collectible coin. Free "insurance" for $100. The postman did NOT secure it in any kind of a mailbox, he just left in on the porch in plain sight. The address HAS a secure indoor mailbox. Of course, a porch pirate snatched the box, kept the coin and immediately spent the gift debit card at a nearby convenience store. My bank uncovered those records.

After a few weeks of non-arrival, I had the Post Office track it and found out it was "left on porch". I asked how to collect the insurance and they told me "that is the receiver's job" starting with receipts and a police report. So instead of a Christmas gift, the recipient got a "project" instead.

Just another example of "insurance" not being worth you might think.

I thank the Lord I have never had damage, claims or a return in 30+ years of buying/selling instruments. I suppose this is one reason the top vintage instrument dealers can earn the premium prices they charge.

desert rose - Posted - 02/20/2026:  21:55:48

UTM just an fyi for you Concertone Fenders such as this did NOT come with engraved arm rests.
In the history of fender Fullerton made banjos we made a total of 18 fully engrved and fully carved Concertone banjos, all the rest were simply gold plated standard Concertone banjos. the fully engraved and carved being so rare that they are extremely expensive today.

UTM - Posted - 02/21/2026:  04:43:24

Scott;

I really appreciate that information, the episode that I have described here is actually my third attempt in six years to buy a complete original Concert Tone in reasonably good structural/cosmetic condition. Obviously, in this case the 'third time was not the charm'! My expectation was based on a photo that popped up from a Goggle search. I should have looked more closely at which model it was.



For future reference, do you recall if the original arm rests were single or double clamp style? Would a modern Prucha arm rest generally resemble the Fender model in shape and size?



Thanks again for your help.

Edited by - UTM on 02/21/2026 04:50:49

banjoy - Posted - 02/21/2026:  15:46:58

If the seller/shipper paid UPS for this shipment, the only party who can file a claim is the shipper. You can't file a claim as buyer/recipient if you didn't directly buy the UPS service. The insurance makes who purchased the service whole. Then it's up to the seller to make you whole.

Edited by - banjoy on 02/21/2026 15:48:59

UTM - Posted - 02/21/2026:  18:49:42

Thanks so much for your comments Frank! That certainly sounds logical to me. I can't help but think 'Uncle Kit' at The Old Town Pickin Parlor is experienced enough to know that. It seems to me that their slipshod packing job allowed me to jump somewhat gracefully over/around what they intended to put me thru.



Since I posted this topic, Uncle kit and I have exchanged a couple of e-mails. I mentioned earlier here that I had made an offer to by the remains of the Concert Tone banjo rather than send it back for them to 'buff out' and sell it someone else. Up until we reached an agreement on a price, I did not disassemble the pot assembly to see if was in "great shape" as their advertisement claimed. I could see at a glace that the flange was severely 'pulled'.



At the risk of highjacking my own topic, When I got it torn down, what I found raised more questions than it answered. Honestly, I am hoping that 'Desert Rose' is still watching. My question for him or the other Fender guys here is if the original rim was of a three ply or multiply construction? This rim appears to have been refinished at some point. It has a green Fender sticker but it consists of 14 or 15 plys. The rim to ring fit is a loose .035" per side! Yes, per side! The ring is a no- hole that weighs 3 pounds and 6 ounces.



I'm pretty sure that I have a useable Vintage Concert Tone neck located but if this is not an original rim, and with the flange pulled as much as it is, it seems silly not to save my money and send it back even though it is in "...great condition." according the Pickin Parlor crew.



Thanks again for all of the comments. I know that I will feel more informed if there is a 'next time'. I hope that other members following this topic will be spared the adrenalin rush that I have experienced. I'll be standing by for more comments and to see if anyone can answer my question about how the original Fender rims were constructed. Thanks again to all.

Edited by - UTM on 02/21/2026 19:00:27

UTM - Posted - 02/23/2026:  18:07:22

It looks like this topic has served it purpose so seems like it's time to wrap it up. I have worked thru the final issues with this seller. He is adament that he did absolutely nothing wrong.

I have purchased the remains of the Fender Concert Tone from the seller after several encouraging comments from Fender experts/historians that read my topic in the Banjo Repair Forum. All agree that the pot assembly appears ot be authentic!

It will certainly be an interesting project to restore such an historic instrument. I have already located and purchased a vintage replacement neck that is said to be in exceptional good condition. Also, I have found a vintage resonator that is advertised to be free of the finish checking that is present on the Pickin Parlor banjo. The flange that is so severely pulled will defintely be will be the biggest hurdle to clear as things progress.

All of the parts that I have mention above as well as others will be shipped to my door by various services. It hard to imagine that all of them will arrive without some delays or controversy. Just another opportunity to learn the intricases of the shipping insurance game. Thanks again to all.

UTM - Posted - 02/27/2026:  05:46:46

As I posted last time, I felt that I had received some good responses to my questions. I guess it should come as no surprise that I got an additional response. This came in the form of an E-mail from the seller threatening legal action.



In my comments here, I tried to balance the need to provide meaningful context for the questions that I asked while not being vindictive or accusatory. You know, "JUST THE FACTS". I included the fact that with considerable coaxing, the seller "chose" to given me a full refund.



Apparently, I included a smidge too much reality or the responders filled in too many of the gaps with there own personal experiences. It was my intention to become more informed consumer and share this experience with other members here. I did not share the avalanche of facts that focused the seller on the advisability of responding favorably to my request for a full refund. Which he did.



In any case, it appears that what was shared here exceeded the sellers threshold of pain. I will mention that his recent message clearly stated that '...they looked forward to answering any of your ( read as BHO Forum viewers) questions about this situation.' So...



In closing, I accept that I may have failed to thread the needle without including any FACTS. Further, I know that the experts advise that when you are being mugged, the best thing to do is to hand over your money. But confronting that mentality does work; sometimes. To repeat; I received a full refund, so you may feel perfectly comfortable dealing with this seller.

Edited by - UTM on 02/27/2026 06:02:49

desert rose - Posted - 02/27/2026:  07:24:21

UTM

ALL Fender California banjos were made with multi ply veneer rims like yours and all of them had extrmely loose tone ting fits

UTM - Posted - 02/27/2026:  16:15:43

Thanks as always Scott. In your opinion, would the "tone" be improved if I added material and refitted the rim to a more conventional "light slip" fit? As a bit of a collector, I am tempted to leave the California Fender fit "as-is" for historical value if it likely that tightening the clearance would not have have a significant benefit.

Edited by - UTM on 02/27/2026 16:16:46

Joel Hooks - Posted - 02/27/2026:  16:50:27

Sadly, threats of litigation has become a common bullying tactic by companies in attempt to stifle free speech.

There have been recent cases of business filing against people that have left bad reviews.

I personally believe that these litigious companies do not expect to win, rather the financial implications are enough to push around individuals and bully them into retraction of their personal opinion.

UTM - Posted - 02/27/2026:  19:34:47

We all experienced how one thing leads to another, sometimes not in a good way.

In one of my prvious postings on this topic, I optimistically stated that I had located and purchased a Vintage replacement neck and resonator for the Fender Concert Tone pot assembly that I had ended up purchasing from the seller. I had high hopes that those parts would kick off my project and that a new (newerish) and better Concert Tone would surely arise from the ashes of that experience.

The parts banjo deal was struck with a seller on what I will call 'the mega musical' website.
I paid the asking price, received the order confirmation and was assured by that seller that he would ship in two days. So I kicked back anticipating a smooth journey to total satisfaction.

On the second day, I received a series of e-mails from the seller thru the 'mega musical'website. I had been off the grid in meetings for a couple of hours. When I finally got the chance to take a look at them; the first said the seller was getting ready to pack up the parts banjo when realized that one of the resonator screws was missing. Sent almost immediately, the second messaged suggested a work-around; and did I agree that it would be ok to ship? Without waiting for my answer, the seller's next message announced that " the parts had been damaged in shipment and he had process a refund".

By the time I had reviewed the barrage of messages from the seller, slam- bang the refund notice arrived from the "mega musical" website system.

I messaged the seller. His only response was "damged in shipment/ withdrawn". When I mesaaged him a second time to explain that I was willing to accept that one of the resonator screws was missing and would he please reinstate the transaction, he responsed "GET A LIFE LOSER"!!!!!!

Over the next 6 hours, He responded with 3 additional messages containing disconnected rants about "who was I to challenge a 5-star seller", "stop polluting the 'mega musical' community and "you are a disgrace to the 'mega musical' family! What more can I say?

So, if anyone out there knows where I might find a Vintage Fender Concert Tone neck and or resonator, please let me know.

UTM - Posted - 02/27/2026:  20:35:26

Hello. While I was editing my last message, a glitch of some kind interrupted that process.
When I reloaded BHO to complete the editing process, the edit button was not available.

I think the message 'as-is' conveys my thoughts on my most recent experience and more importantly connects it to Joels most recent post.

Thanks for following and contributing to this topic. I'm ready to move on but will remain subscribed.

Alex Z - Posted - 02/28/2026:  05:05:10

The first seller, who accepted the return and gave a full refund including shipping which satisfied the poster, didn’t have to be identified (especially in the title of the thread) to ask and answer questions regarding shipping responsibility and insurance ownership.

But it sure would be useful to know who “mega-musical” is.

UTM - Posted - 02/28/2026:  18:36:23

Alex; Thanks for you comment regarding the 'naming'. It was certainly my option and I figured that if the Mods read it and felt it was out of line they would act accordingly.



Simply stated, my choice to include the sellers name was his 'intent'. He knew that I was going to be out $2,000! It was never his intent to do the right thing. A fact that I thought might prevent someone else finding themselves in the same situation with this seller. We're asked to report cyber scams, but there are old school 'slicks' out there too.

Edited by - UTM on 02/28/2026 18:40:16

desert rose - Posted - 02/28/2026:  19:45:05

UTM yes making the fit tighter would maybe improve tone but altering its originality would be a concern. These banjos were power houses and tone monsters, I would recomend leaving it alone

UTM - Posted - 02/28/2026:  20:53:05

Thanks Scott. Always interesting to hear your comments. Original it will stay!