ericmacknight - Posted - 11/20/2025:  19:54:21

Has anyone had a go at this recent book by Kristina R. Gaddy and Rhiannon Giddens, "Go Back & Fetch It: Recovering Early Black Music in the Americas for Fiddle and Banjo"?

Reviews, recommendations, thoughts?

Mickhammer - Posted - 11/20/2025:  23:38:22

There's a couple of videos on YT where the author/s discuss the book and occasionally pick up an instrument to illustrate the songs.

I like the concept - for me, the banjo just begs to make trance-like music (most of world music is trance music), so the idea of learning original pre-OT, pre-minstrel tunes is really interesting. I didn't know about this book. I just ordered it... which means now I'm going to have to go find me a gourd banjo [sigh]

dbrooks - Posted - 11/21/2025:  03:57:17

I am next on the list to borrow the book from our local library.

David

tonygo - Posted - 11/21/2025:  06:21:03

There is only one problem with this work. There are no musical examples to listen to. I can read tab but I want to hear them first. The book has no link to examples and as far as I have been able to detect, none on youtube. RG has put up one or two on Instagram. But if you want to be able to hear her play thru pieces to get them in your head or decide if you want to bother learning them you will come up empty. The tab is good and there is of course musical notation but this work sits on a shelf unused for lack of examples online.

Mickhammer - Posted - 11/21/2025:  08:12:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by tonygo

There is only one problem with this work. There are no musical examples to listen to. 

---

I saw others complain of this too, so I put my order on hold for the moment. I'll wait until a more experienced player puts up some examples.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/21/2025:  08:49:31

Sadly RG continues to spread the Snowden/Dixie myth and added it to this book.



I beg everyone to actually read "Way Up North In Dixie" which fails to stretch the thinnest evidence into a connection. It just is not there.



This is included in the section on what she calls "Snowden's Jig"-- again, this is based on the myth that someone in the Snowden family (the Sacks were unable to really make a case for any member with place and time) wrote "Dixie" and Dan Emmett stole it. With this myth, one might as well go ahead and attribute anything Emmett wrote down as composed by a member of the Snowden family.



RG's constant spreading of this myth makes me question if she read past the back cover of the book she references.

Edited by - Joel Hooks on 11/21/2025 08:50:34

writerrad - Posted - 11/21/2025:  08:53:32

quote:Kristina and Rhiannon are at work on recordings that will be release soon for all of the examples.

---

Originally posted by tonygo

There is only one problem with this work. There are no musical examples to listen to. I can read tab but I want to hear them first. The book has no link to examples and as far as I have been able to detect, none on youtube. RG has put up one or two on Instagram. But if you want to be able to hear her play thru pieces to get them in your head or decide if you want to bother learning them you will come up empty. The tab is good and there is of course musical notation but this work sits on a shelf unused for lack of examples online.

---

tonygo - Posted - 11/21/2025:  09:11:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by writerrad

quote:Kristina and Rhiannon are at work on recordings that will be release soon for all of the examples.

---

Originally posted by tonygo

There is only one problem with this work. There are no musical examples to listen to. I can read tab but I want to hear them first. The book has no link to examples and as far as I have been able to detect, none on youtube. RG has put up one or two on Instagram. But if you want to be able to hear her play thru pieces to get them in your head or decide if you want to bother learning them you will come up empty. The tab is good and there is of course musical notation but this work sits on a shelf unused for lack of examples online.

---

 

Good news.

---

KCJones - Posted - 11/21/2025:  16:02:09

A generous view would be that Rhiannon Giddens (along with Jake Blount) produces fictional entertainment masquerading as historical research. A less generous view would be that they're racists that promote anachronistic revisionist history to support their worldview.



Her music is good; she's a great musician. She should stick to playing music and leave the history to historians.

Edited by - KCJones on 11/21/2025 16:07:56

Mickhammer - Posted - 11/21/2025:  23:18:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

A generous view would be that Rhiannon Giddens (along with Jake Blount) produces fictional entertainment masquerading as historical research. A less generous view would be that they're racists that promote anachronistic revisionist history to support their worldview.



Her music is good; she's a great musician. She should stick to playing music and leave the history to historians.

---

I thought this was supposed to be a safe zone from politics? 

KCJones - Posted - 11/21/2025:  23:43:43

I don't see any politics in my comment bud. We're talking about the history of banjo music.

Mickhammer - Posted - 11/22/2025:  00:04:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

I don't see any politics in my comment bud. We're talking about the history of banjo music.

---

It's okay. I've reported your comment. Hopefully someone will set you straight in a private message. Bud.

KCJones - Posted - 11/22/2025:  05:02:16

Topics of race are not inherently political. If they were considered to be, it would effectively be impossible to discuss the history of banjo music. The book in question is focused on topics of race as they relate to banjo history, are we not allowed to respond to it in ways other than unconditional agreement?

If you'd like to discuss forum rules, perhaps a PM would be in order, or creating a seperate thread in the 'off-topic' forum to ask for clarification. Continuing to discuss forum rules in this thread will distract from the conversation about the book itself. 

Edited by - KCJones on 11/22/2025 05:09:43

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/22/2025:  07:48:05

I would not presume to know what the motives were behind this relentless perpetuation of a myth.

I can only speculate that RG truly believes it, which calls into question her ability to apply critical thinking to history.

RG has often claimed during interviews that she is not a historian (something that I claim for myself) but continues to put herself in that role.

Now, were she to present this story as a myth that has been believed in that area of Ohio since the 1970s, that would be less egregious. After all, folks tell ghost stories and folk tales which can be entertaining.

Jon Borcherding - Posted - 11/22/2025:  08:18:15

I'm curious as to why RG is taking all the heat for for this?
Her co-author, Kristina R. Gaddy is reportedly a credentialed historian and published author of several non-fiction books on history. This is not Gaddy's first book on the history of the banjo.

Personally, I have not yet read the book, so I have no opinion on the veracity of its narrative, nor do I have a degree in history. I'm just curious about the apparent strawman argument that involves attacking the one of two authors who is NOT a historian. They BOTH have their name on the cover.

aaronoble - Posted - 11/22/2025:  09:06:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Sadly RG continues to spread the Snowden/Dixie myth and added it to this book.



I beg everyone to actually read "Way Up North In Dixie" which fails to stretch the thinnest evidence into a connection. It just is not there.



This is included in the section on what she calls "Snowden's Jig"-- again, this is based on the myth that someone in the Snowden family (the Sacks were unable to really make a case for any member with place and time) wrote "Dixie" and Dan Emmett stole it. With this myth, one might as well go ahead and attribute anything Emmett wrote down as composed by a member of the Snowden family.



RG's constant spreading of this myth makes me question if she read past the back cover of the book she references.

---

I think you are mischaracterizing the statements in this chapter of the book. The sentence is, "locals said it was in fact the the Snowdens who wrote 'Dixie,'..." with a citation of the Sacks' book as reference. The authors are citing the claim not the theses of 'Way Up North in Dixie'.

I think there's a difference between spreading a myth and stating a claim.

Tractor1 - Posted - 11/22/2025:  09:11:48

the only worthy music as a historical accuracy would be something written at the target time--one would not'' go back '' to shine the the light on it--there was not a meeting of  a majority  of folks --to decide what to hide--All the accurate renditions were found in the present times--the rhetoric around this topic-- ruins the mood for me sometimes--but others enjoy that mood sometimes-as we all enjoy ours--If something sells--then -furnishing the product is--simply- making a living--go for it --just don't expect me there -raising a fist--

even written music would fail to tell what the sound (performance]was really like--but I'd say the fun was being had

my opinion --i ask no agreement

Edited by - Tractor1 on 11/22/2025 09:16:01

writerrad - Posted - 11/22/2025:  09:21:47

quote"A generous view would be that Rhiannon Giddens (along with Jake Blount) produces fictional entertainment masquerading as historical research. A less generous view would be that they're racists that promote anachronistic revisionist history to support their worldview."

It is bizarre to claim a book in which Rhiannons chief collaborator is Kristina Gaddy, has nothing to do with historians, insofar as Gaddy is not only the author of the most authoritative work on banjo history covering this period "Well of Souls" but the central organizer of the Banjo Gathering, the key event in banjo history?   

Both have advanced degrees vetted by major universities illustrating that major academic scholars of music and history believe their work is significant and verifiable,  The authors of the work in question--have you read it and listented to the music files produced to accompany it, our do you produce your insults without any reference to reality?

What exactly are your qualifications for historical research of the topics that are being discussed?  What kind of documented research have you done about the issues at hand.

The book in question is not just the product of the work of only the scholars you illustrate you ignorance by insulting, but was vetted by scholars in Europe, the Caribbean, and this country. It is an extension of what has has been pointed out by decisive works over the past 10-15 years on the history of the banjo by scholars from Europe, the Caribbean, and the US.

What exactly are your qualifications on these issues other than poor typing skills  and your own ignorance and racism?

Since the book is a collaboration between Rhiannon and one of the foremost banjo historians especially of the period in question,  Kristina Gaddy who is currently a doctoral candidate in history at a University in the UK,  what is the basis of your cranky stupid attack.  I can personally testify that the book was greeted with cheers by real banjo historians on three continents and the islands of the sea and grows out of new steps specifically projected by the most recent academically published work on both banjo history and the develop of  Black and creole music in the Early Modern New Wold.   

I do not recall the mention of your name at any point that the history of the banjo has been considered.   Have you actually read the book in question, or do you spew your hatred and ignorance blind?

Both Kristina and Rhiannon are well accepted in the places where actual banjo historians and historians of the musical era discussed are studied on the most advanced level. 

It is pretty bizarre to see someone who has no knowledge of the subject in question,  no knowlege of who and what historians are,  exhibit their ignorance and racism so openly.

Dont you have any shame whatsoever?

---

Originally posted by KCJones

Her music is good; she's a great musician. She should stick to playing music and leave the history to historians.

---

Edited by - writerrad on 11/22/2025 09:29:09

writerrad - Posted - 11/22/2025:  09:42:52

Joel is this the key issue in this book?  Have you bothered to read the book in question or any of the other work on the Afro-Caribbean music which at the center of the book? 

  I did have a chance to speak with the Sacks who attended the Banjo Gathering in North Carolina last month.  They''ve been working with Pete and Kristina to donate one of the Snowdens' banjos to the Smithsonian, and gave a presentation about it.   I think their view of the whole thing is much more nuanced and factual than  what they wrote in their book, it must have been 20 or 30  years ago.   On the other hand, they have much more information on the  Snowdens and the entire community in question.

KCJones - Posted - 11/22/2025:  09:53:57

I mentioned RG specifically because I know of her and her past work. I'm not familiar with the other author, so I didn't mention her name. I take issue specifically with RG (and Jake Blount) presenting false history as fact and presenting themselves as a historians without following the appropriate academic rigor necessary to claim that title.



Interestingly, I was going to make a comment about how any criticism of RG or JB is nearly impossible online because it will immediately trigger personal harassment from an army of keyboard warriors, but I felt like it would distract from the conversation regarding this book. Ironic, perhaps, that we're seeing it play out once again.



Criticism or counterpoint against the revisionist history promoted by this cohort of entertainers is not really possible online due to this disproportionate reaction, as has been demonstrated in this thread. Any response other than absolute support is immediately drowned out by a deluge of reactionary rhetoric. This has happened multiple times over the past several years, not just with myself but with several other prominent members of the banjo and history community. I am not a historian and don't claim to be, I just enjoy reading about banjo history. While I don't think that the behavior of her fanbase is RGs responsibility, I do find it interesting that this continues to happen every time the issue comes up. For this reason, and because I feel that I've said my part, I won't be responding to this thread any further. 

Edited by - KCJones on 11/22/2025 09:58:11

aaronoble - Posted - 11/22/2025:  10:25:13

Lol

writerrad - Posted - 11/22/2025:  11:28:11

KC Jones,  how can you speak about this.  Jake is a doctoral candidate in music history at Brown University.,   What exactly are your qualifications?

For the past 21 years Rhiannon has been at the center of work on the history of the banjo on international level.  On the other hand what exactly are your contributions, publications, education or involvement in discussing the history.

As I already mentioned Kristina Gaddy, after being the central organizer of the Banjo Gathering, the premier event in banjo history and author of Well of Souls, is also a doctoral candidate at the University of Nottingham in England.

What are your academic qualifications to judge this.  What contributions have you made to banjo history or the study of the banjo?

Tractor1 - Posted - 11/22/2025:  11:45:30

MR.Tony ---can the snowden banjo be viewed online--?I would like to see it
If they are playing examples from their book it spikes my interest

Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/22/2025:  14:01:59

Okay, that's enough!

You guys cool it. Each of you have a right to your opinion, but you do not have a right to flame another member because he believes differently than you do. Let's keep on the subject matter, not get personal. Any more name calling, flaming, and we'll have to see about a time out.

I have hidden a couple of flaming comments. You know who you are.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/22/2025:  14:53:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by writerrad

Joel is this the key issue in this book?  Have you bothered to read the book in question or any of the other work on the Afro-Caribbean music which at the center of the book? 

  I did have a chance to speak with the Sacks who attended the Banjo Gathering in North Carolina last month.  They''ve been working with Pete and Kristina to donate one of the Snowdens' banjos to the Smithsonian, and gave a presentation about it.   I think their view of the whole thing is much more nuanced and factual than  what they wrote in their book, it must have been 20 or 30  years ago.   On the other hand, they have much more information on the  Snowdens and the entire community in question.

---

There is a section on the so called "Snowden's Jig".

To be clear, I have no problem with renaming music, I do it all the time, and it was done "in the period", my problem is the insinuation that it was composed by "the Snowdens" (which Snowen?) and appropriated by Emmett.  

 

While it is possible, nay, probable, that Emmett did not compose "Genuine Negro Jig", changing the name to "Snowden's Jig" creates a narrative that just does not exist nor make any sense. 

Additionally, Giddens has told this Dixie/Snowden story as fact in interview after interview.

I would not call "L'Infanta March" by the title "Lansing's March" because George Lansing did not write it, George Gregory did.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/22/2025:  15:35:42

I did not criticize Kristina because I don't have any problem with her part of the book.

Regarding the book in general, I think the concept is cool and fun. The entire work is a speculation-- "what if these pieces were played on the banjo by Black people?" I did read the book and enjoyed most of it.. until I got to the "Snowden's Jig" section. Now, here is speculation/myth presented as history. When this happens, right or wrong, it makes me second guess the rest of the work.

I spent a couple of evenings reading through all the music. So let's talk about the music.

Well, not the music specially, rather how Giddens dealt with the music. I can't figure out any logic to her tab compared to the music. If I were arranging these pieces for banjo (only one of them were originally for banjo) I would pick a "system" of notation. Since it is currently 2025, I would likely choose "C notation".

All of these pieces, with a bit of octave moving, are playable on the banjo as written. The banjo music should conform to the LONG ESTABLISHED notational edits. Things such as position marking, double flagging the 5th string, right and left hand fingerings, would all be included and conform to standard markings used in banjo notation.

But, Giddens, at my suggestion that she use her influence to promote reading notation on banjo, accused me of insulting all banjoists who do not read. Then she pulled out the old "lute music is in tab" argument-- great, but we are not playing lute. So this does not seem to be someone who has put in any effort to study the primary documents of banjo music. She seems to give the impression that she does not read music at all, which I would think a banjo historian would want to be able to read the language used in their area of research.

I get the impression that there was some trepidation over the absence of historical record of scordatura. Converse's memory of the first banjo he ever heard seems to do some heavy lifting purely because of the scordatura. With that said, I found this section well written, clear and accurate to what I currently know.

It would have been nice if they included the issue of the Cadenza that this piece was found in, July 1901, Vol. 7 No. 11.

For the record, I have no credentials, nor affiliation with any university or academia in general. My "musical education" came directly from banjo instruction books published in the 19th century. This "education" was started in my late 20s while I worked at a window factory in Dallas Texas and drove a truck two days a week. I did not come from a musical family and had no musical exposure besides half a year of 5th grade orchestra (which did not last because I was provided with no independent lessons for violin and did not know how to play it). From that experience I only remember embarrassment and ridicule.

writerrad - Posted - 11/22/2025:  17:15:41

There are few people in the banjo world whose integrity, selflessness, and brains I respect more than Joel Hooks.  I  would not be surprised if Joel has not actually seen the book.   I am sure they would not be much disagreement when Joel reads Go Back and Fetch it, particularly  Kristina Gaddy’s introduction to “Snowdens” there.

 Kristina is crystal clear that what is presented as “Snowdens Jig” is a reinterpretation of the tune Emmett published as “Genuine Negro Jig “ in the way that the Carolina Chocolate Drops believe it might have been played in the African American string band tradition in as they learned it from Joe Thompson and others, and not the tune published by Emmett as “Snowdens Jig.”   She is quite clear that neither she nor the Drops claim this the original, nor that the Snowdens wrote Emmett's tune.

Kristina is clear that Rhiannon and the other Drops do not have any knowledge that whether the Snowdens wrote “Genuine Negro Jig.”  Kristina writes the Drops named their tune to honor the Snowdens, not to make any claim that  the Snowdens wrote ”Genuine Negro Jig.”  Kristina writes that they have no knowledge that the Snowdens ever played this tune.

Throughout the introduction to the tune in Go Back, Kristina refers to it as the Chocolate Drops’ "transformation" of what Emmett published to reflect how the tune would have been written or played by the Black string band and banjo tradition the Drops were learning from Joe Thompson and others.

Kristina concludes,  "We're including Rhiannon's transformed and adapted version of 'Snowden's Jig’ to show how we might all use our musical influences and backgrounds to make the historic notes on the pages of this book come alive again.”

This is quite clear.  There is no claim of authorship by the Snowdens of this tune.  They are quite clear that what is printed in this book is not a transcription of what Emmett wrote and published.. It is a modification of what Emmett published to reflect what they see being the Black String band traditions as they performed it 20 years ago's approach to the same music.

That Emmett gave his composition that title suggests very strongly that he did not actually "write it."   What he published represents his idea of a tune a "Genuine Negro" would have written, or at least he sought to market it the song as such.   As a group of genuine Black people,  the Drops published as “Snowdens’ Jig” how they believe genuine Black people in the string band tradition they were learning would have played the tune.

writerrad - Posted - 11/22/2025:  17:43:23

Rereading my post,  I would be sure to say that the things that Kristina clarifies are not true about "Genuine" versus "Snowdens" about authorship have probably been asserted by all kinds of people and maybe by the Drops or Rhiannon.  The introduction in the book by Kristina is clear and correct and clarifies that difference between "Snowdens" and "Genuine."

I too could make a catalog of things that Rhianon Giddens has said oft hand or in print that I or no serious scholar of the banjo or of music  history would say.  She is an entertainer and charts a course that seeks to advance her career and income in the corporate world of entertainment and will say what she thinks will advance that career,  and seems to be trying to attach herself to a variety of fictions that the corporate entity that calls itself "Country Music" wishes people to believe, that most serious music scholars know are not true.

I bask in the freedom of the largesse of social security and, the luxury retirement I have earned as a parts man in the Miami Dade Transit system, and the princely sums David Reiner pays me for giving classes at Fiddle Hell.   I can type what I think,  but must stop now as my wife says it is time for dinner!  The pizza smells goo!

Edited by - writerrad on 11/22/2025 17:45:15

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/22/2025:  18:22:15

There is a typo in Congo, page 53, first measure D should have been an F. But this does not matter because merely suggesting that a banjoist read this notation is an insult.

writerrad - Posted - 11/22/2025:  19:34:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tractor1

MR.Tony ---can the snowden banjo be viewed online--?I would like to see it

If they are playing examples from their book it spikes my interest

yes go to the Smithsonian Website and use the search and put in SnowdenBanjo and you should be able to get to it though you have to skip over the Jazz guitar banjoist Elmer Snowden who also has a banjo in the Smithsonian

---

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/22/2025:  20:14:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

There is a typo in Congo, page 53, first measure D should have been an F. But this does not matter because merely suggesting that a banjoist read this notation is an insult.

---

HA... not a F, an E... I'm not so smart either.  

Don Borchelt - Posted - 11/25/2025:  19:20:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by aaronoble

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Sadly RG continues to spread the Snowden/Dixie myth and added it to this book...



...RG's constant spreading of this myth makes me question if she read past the back cover of the book she references.

---

I think you are mischaracterizing the statements in this chapter of the book. The sentence is, "locals said it was in fact the the Snowdens who wrote 'Dixie,'..." with a citation of the Sacks' book as reference. The authors are citing the claim not the theses of 'Way Up North in Dixie'.

I think there's a difference between spreading a myth and stating a claim.

---

aaronoble, I think you have made the most important point in this whole discussion, and it appears to have been pretty much ignored by everyone except Tony.  

I would only add to this discussion, back in the antebellum days, writers of songs often had their work stolen from them.  Stephen Foster died a poor man because of that.

writerrad - Posted - 11/26/2025:  12:21:30

quote:", my problem is the insinuation that it was composed by "the Snowdens" (which Snowen?) and appropriated by Emmett.  

It is Emmett who insinuates that a Genuine Negro wrote his "Genuine Negro Jig" and not him by the title. In the current publication,   Kristina writes that "Snowdens Jig" was not written by the Snowdens or Emmett,  but is  modification of  Emmett's publication from the standpoint of what Rhianon and others forming the Chocolate drops saw as the Black string band tradition at the time.

writerrad - Posted - 11/26/2025:  12:51:41

quote:

I would only add to this discussion, back in the antebellum days, writers of songs often had their work stolen from them.  Stephen Foster died a poor man because of that.

---

The point Don makes is also important.  The concept of authorship and the claim of authorship was practiced quite differently in the 1840s and 1850s and 60s, than even what it became in the 20th century, let alone in our digital age.  Emmett was an important conduit of all kinds of what we would call folk music of all kinds into formal composed and published music for shows, most of them Blackface minstrel shows, but in all other sorts of music. 

 A scholar I know who was unable to complete the work he began on Emmett due to age and infirmity once showed me a huge pile of photocopies of Emmett's "book" involving scores of standard notation of tunes he hd written down.  The scholar was noting how many of these tunes showed the influence of African American music.

Foster himself did not publish many of the tunes that  he composed in his own name.  He had commercial agreements with the Christies and other minstrel show companies and entertainers to publish the tunes in the names of the stars of these companies, rather than his own,  and most of the songs he is famous for today which were the songs for the minstrel stage.  He only published some of the sentimental songs modeled after British songs that were until he came along the standards for US popular writing, of which "Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair" is the most famous under his own name.  Foster came from a fallen down branch of a prominent pro-slavery Democrat famiy.

The concept of authorship as we would have it today simply did not exist in the 1840s, 50s, or 60s, or 70s.  

On the other hand the actual setting that Emmett used for Dixie and the reasons for its success in its originl performance context, was clearly the opposite of anything that the Snowdens would hve thought of, to their credit.  The performance context of Dixie especially in the performances in the Minstrel show where Emmett was the musical director had it as the lament of an escaped slave, regretting fleeing the slave planation, whistfully remembering with regret the joys of the plantation that he had escaped from, regretting freedom.  The success of the song as a song, even before it became the anthem of the Confederacy, is the idea that a good Black person is not suited for freedom, and obtaining freedom will wish to return to slavery and has no place in the free North.   '

Emmett could not hve possibly stolen that from the Snowdens whose lives were an example of how Emmetts "Dixie" was a lie.

ericmacknight - Posted - 11/26/2025:  16:38:09

@aaronoble: Yes, I agree 100%! Giddens and Gaddy do not assert that the Snowdens wrote "Dixie" and that Emmett then stole it from them. They only report the fact that "Locals" made that claim. Then they go on to say that such stories reflect the "significant black-white musical exchange . . . on the frontier"—a phrase they quote from Sacks and Sacks. 

If anyone is offended by this, I can only conclude that they are misreading and misinterpreting what is on the page.

quote:

---

Originally posted by aaronoble

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Sadly RG continues to spread the Snowden/Dixie myth and added it to this book.



I beg everyone to actually read "Way Up North In Dixie" which fails to stretch the thinnest evidence into a connection. It just is not there.



This is included in the section on what she calls "Snowden's Jig"-- again, this is based on the myth that someone in the Snowden family (the Sacks were unable to really make a case for any member with place and time) wrote "Dixie" and Dan Emmett stole it. With this myth, one might as well go ahead and attribute anything Emmett wrote down as composed by a member of the Snowden family.



RG's constant spreading of this myth makes me question if she read past the back cover of the book she references.

---

I think you are mischaracterizing the statements in this chapter of the book. The sentence is, "locals said it was in fact the the Snowdens who wrote 'Dixie,'..." with a citation of the Sacks' book as reference. The authors are citing the claim not the theses of 'Way Up North in Dixie'.

I think there's a difference between spreading a myth and stating a claim.

---

tak - Posted - 11/27/2025:  04:51:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mickhammer

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

A generous view would be that Rhiannon Giddens (along with Jake Blount) produces fictional entertainment masquerading as historical research. A less generous view would be that they're racists that promote anachronistic revisionist history to support their worldview.



Her music is good; she's a great musician. She should stick to playing music and leave the history to historians.

---

I thought this was supposed to be a safe zone from politics? 

---

Me too!

Spudwheat - Posted - 11/27/2025:  05:10:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mickhammer

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

I don't see any politics in my comment bud. We're talking about the history of banjo music.

---

It's okay. I've reported your comment. Hopefully someone will set you straight in a private message. Bud.

---

Oh, brother! Please go to the skin store and buy a thicker one.

Mickhammer - Posted - 11/27/2025:  05:25:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spudwheat

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mickhammer

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

I don't see any politics in my comment bud. We're talking about the history of banjo music.

---

It's okay. I've reported your comment. Hopefully someone will set you straight in a private message. Bud.

---

Oh, brother! Please go to the skin store and buy a thicker one.

---

Skin is very much the issue here, yes. Which is precisely why we're supposed to avoid this sort of discussion here. I'm interested in banjos, not in having other people's ignorance and intolerance forced on me.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/27/2025:  08:19:35

Okay, let's not go there again. We have a rule against flaming a member; i.e., calling him names, etc. Let's keep the thread on the subject, not a person. Much more flaming and it will get a time out. Let's keep it civil, please!

Dale Diehl - Posted - 11/27/2025:  16:31:38

I'm not a historian nor claim to be. I do tire of people constantly telling me the origin of the banjo, which seems to me to be some sort of virtue signaling.
I just enjoy the banjo and many other forms of music. Americas music, as with the rest of our culture was proud to be uniquely American because of the "Melting Pot". No where else in the world have so many cultures been brought together to form so much beauty and variety.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 11/28/2025:  09:58:41

Dale Diehl I think that's right Dale (cool last name btw). Although some people like to give bright lines to the provenance of ideas and creative endeavors, the reality is much as you describe. A group effort.

chuckv97 - Posted - 11/28/2025:  16:23:40

@Joel Hooks,, I’m curious to know why it’s so important for banjo players to know how to read standard notation? I understand why RG thought it might be insulting to many traditional banjoists.

Don Borchelt - Posted - 11/28/2025:  17:33:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dale Diehl

I'm not a historian nor claim to be. I do tire of people constantly telling me the origin of the banjo, which seems to me to be some sort of virtue signaling.

I just enjoy the banjo and many other forms of music. Americas music, as with the rest of our culture was proud to be uniquely American because of the "Melting Pot". No where else in the world have so many cultures been brought together to form so much beauty and variety.

---

Are people "constantly" telling you about the origins of the banjo?  You will forgive me if I find that an exaggeration.  If you are not interested in the history of the banjo, that's fine, but why should that stop those of us who want to discuss it in great detail from carrying on about it in our own space.  We did not invade one of your threads, you invaded this one, which is unambiguously titled "Recovering Early Black Music in the Americas."  If you are exhausted by these discussions, why not just avoid it? 



It may be uncomfortable for some, but the five string banjo in America has its roots in Africa.  I don't disagree with the metaphor that it was early on absorbed into the American "melting pot", and greatly changed as a result, but that is no reason to ignore its earliest roots.  That is what makes Kristina Gaddy's book Well of Souls such a good read for those of us who enjoy learning about banjo history.  Gaddy did an incredible amount of research and revealed details from those early times that we had not known much or anything about. 

Your reaction reminds me of the KKK member who discovered that one of his grandparents was black.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/29/2025:  04:17:24

Okay, we're not going to start flaming again. Please, keep the thread on the subject, not the person.

Don Borchelt - Posted - 11/29/2025:  09:55:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Okay, we're not going to start flaming again. Please, keep the thread on the subject, not the person.

---

I'll try.  I just want to thank Dean for inspiring me to drive to my favorite local book store this morning and ordering a copy of Go Back and Fetch It.  I'll write up a review after I finish it.

- Don B.

Tractor1 - Posted - 11/29/2025:  10:30:43

exceptions to perceptions seem to take no sides--guilt and innocence seem to do the same--

Lew H - Posted - 12/01/2025:  16:07:06

ericmacknight Well, at least you got the info from Tony that there is a set of recordings of some sort for the songs tabbed in the book. I think the argument got going because on person said a black author might be a racist. That seems out of bounds.

ericmacknight - Posted - 12/01/2025:  18:33:11

Hi Lew,

Yes, things took a turn I did not expect. I was hoping there would be more contributions about the music from folks who know more than I do.

Mark Douglas - Posted - 12/01/2025:  23:26:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lew H

ericmacknight Well, at least you got the info from Tony that there is a set of recordings of some sort for the songs tabbed in the book. I think the argument got going because on person said a black author might be a racist. That seems out of bounds.

---

I think the individual challenged her perspective and interpretation of history. I don't think that's the same as calling someone racist. 

I'm not sure where you read that anyone here suggested the author/artist in question is a racist?

Perhaps expressing your opinion should not be considered "out of bounds."

Edited by - Mark Douglas on 12/01/2025 23:30:29