Porteiro - Posted - 09/25/2025:  20:11:06

Is this a thing -- playing anything other than the 5th string on the last note of a "bum ditty" pattern?

I've never seem anybody do it, and I haven't been able to get it to work, but as I try to work up songs on my own, I keep wishing that I could do so to get a melody note in there.

Porteiro - Posted - 09/25/2025:  20:23:10

Actually, I sometimes do put a drop thumb in there at that spot, but can only do so if I skip the brush stroke.

Barnacle Joe - Posted - 09/25/2025:  20:32:19

The second way you describe is common, and pretty foundational to what gets called "melodic clawhammer" and/or "progressive clawhammer". The first maneuver you describe....isn't something I personally have noticed being done. But feels like I could train my right hand to do in a day or so. So if you can do it and it sounds good, by all means do it!

Melodic/progressive/advanced players will incorporate the open fifth as a melody note and/or fret the fifth string. So that's also an established option that is open for you. So is just re-tuning the whole thing to put the notes where you want them.

Porteiro - Posted - 09/25/2025:  20:37:29

The first maneuver isn't something I've ever been able to get to work. I was hoping that it was "a thing" and that knowing the name for it, I could look up some tutorials for it. :)

Question about the second way -- skipping the brush stroke. When I do that, I just keep my right hand still and skip the up-down pattern for one cycle. Is there a better way?

Barnacle Joe - Posted - 09/25/2025:  20:53:03

Lets see.....ok, so if you forget about the brush-part of the bum-ditty (or bum-pa-dit-ty. if you're drop thumbing on beat-2) you have a couple options. You can play a single note on beat 3 instead of the whole brush. That's, uh, just another note with a drop-thumb afterwards.



Or you can play absolutely nothing for beat 3. That's known by several names (an M-skip, or a ghost-note, or others I've forgotten).



But whatever you choose you want to keep that right hand going up and down like a metronome. So your right hand will still be moving down on beat 3. You just lift the whole hand slightly, change the attack slightly, or curl your fingers in slightly -- so that you miss all the strings even though your hand/arm is still moving in the normal way. When you start trying to train your right hand to do this you might have to intentionally "miss" all the strings by a fairly large amount, but with practice you'll be able to tighten that up so you're only missing by a few millimetres (thus achieving economy of motion).



Reasonably clear? Or would a few measures of tab help?

Edited by - Barnacle Joe on 09/25/2025 20:53:44

SatCotM - Posted - 09/25/2025:  22:35:24

Try playing some jigs and waltzes. These meters with distinct motion have a lot of opportunities for melody on the backbeat. And with jigs you have to get creative with technique in both hands to keep that double triplet working at tempo. One person with some great entry-level instruction on syncopation and expanding right hand technique is Benny Bleu. You can find his stuff here:

@BennyBleu

The brush + thumb you mention is certainly possible, but it's kind of an awkward maneuver. I've only ever used it in one waltz, where I tend to come into a D by sweeping across strings 1-3 and dropping the thumb into the fourth. Seems like something that might feel too cramped in a higher tempo.

Unless you count when the fifth is used as a melody note. Plenty of tunes might brush into a heavier-than-normal thumb on the fifth, playing the high G as a melody note on the "and".

Edited by - SatCotM on 09/25/2025 22:43:42

KCJones - Posted - 09/26/2025:  05:57:49

Down up down up. 1 2 3 4. Nail thumb nail thumb.



"Bum ditty" is just replacing the first "thumb" on the "2" with a rest, and hitting multiple strings (aka brushing) with the "nail" on the "3".



You can put your thumb on any string(s). You can put your nail on any string(s).



That's it. It really is that simple.

(soapbox warning): most teachers/learners start with the "bum ditty" as the fundamental motion. But in reality, double thumbing (nail-thumb-nail-thumb) is the actual fundamental motion you should base everything around. 

Edited by - KCJones on 09/26/2025 06:01:07

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 09/26/2025:  08:57:33

Very common, and nearly essential.  

There are ways around it, but drop-thumbing on the "ty"  can be preferred for various reasons at times.

Better to be able and choose not to than not to be able.

Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 09/26/2025 09:01:33

banjered - Posted - 09/26/2025:  12:20:23

I was wondering how this thread got tangled up in using the fifth string for melody notes when your question seemed like it was asking how to do drop thumb. Yes, practice! It is just as R.D. says an important technique for smooth playing. I didn't use it for 10 years because I thought it was something only super advanced/gifted players could do. Wrong! It is just another technique that comes with practice. Do string one and drop thumb to two, over and over, then 2-3, then 3-4. When you are heading for a drop thumb, your bum finger and thumb should be almost touching or touching lightly. You have to figure out what works for your particular hand and arm anatomy. When I figured out it was just another practice acquired tool I had a pretty good 'nuff drop thumb in a couple of months (bye bye 10 years of no drop thumb!). What I found interesting was that I started using drop thumb in songs spontaneously without having to practice, it just happened, my subconscious just filled in the gaps. In flying fast fiddle tunes you aim/try to drop thumb and most of the time you'll succeed but if you don't it doesn't really matter that much in a jam so just keep on playing and don't lose the rhythm. banjered

adamINmn - Posted - 09/26/2025:  20:38:34

Ya, I’m learning a tune that calls for a brush across strings two and one followed by a drop thumb on string two. It’s kind of awkward but creates a unique sound as your thumb mutes and then sounds the second string.