HoosierDoodles - Posted - 08/26/2025:  05:00:28

I have a question that I am not quite sure how to ask. I have purchased Hilary Hawke's pdf of beginner/intermediate banjo tabs as well as a couple others. But I see so many people playing songs on YouTube/TikTok/Instagram and I am always blown away and inspired. Where does everyone learn all these songs? I have maybe 20 banjo tabs now and I don't feel like they are that "Great". How is everyone else finding these songs to play?  Especially those singing and playing...I can't find lyrics anywhere.  How are you guys learning this stuff???  

Edited by - HoosierDoodles on 08/26/2025 05:19:02

AstroDad - Posted - 08/26/2025:  05:56:34

Find a teacher. Learn the basics ... bump ditty. Practice. Don't rely on tab, pick a tune, listen, listen, listen some more. Try to learn by ear. Patience! Takes time and more practice.

HoosierDoodles - Posted - 08/26/2025:  06:05:14

I can play bum ditty now and am fairly comfortable with Clawhammer but learning tunes by ear...wow that is a hard one.
The nearest teacher is about an hour drive on a good day (insane traffic where I live) but he specializes in bluegrass style.

dbrooks - Posted - 08/26/2025:  06:13:01

Don't let expectations get in the way of recognizing the progress you have made.  Learning technique, adding new skills, even learning to read tabs all take some time.  Playing with others is a great way to learn and polish new songs and sharpen skills.  Nearly 20 years ago, I returned to the banjo and guitar after the kids had grown.   I knew I wanted to play clawhammer, a style I couldn't handle when I was younger.  A friend suggested I join the volunteer stringband at the local weekly contra dances.  They welcome new players, and I sat in the back row  and played rhythm at first.  I tried to learn one or two new tunes each week from their regular tune list of 40 tunes or so.  I still play at the dances and have become one of the informal leaders.  If you live near Louisville, come join us.

Joining or starting a jam can provide the same opportunities.  Playing with others can take the spotlight off of our errors to which often give more notice than to our progress.  It can also help your target a tune to work on for the next jam.

I still see many fine banjo players online who play tunes that I do not know.  That will never go away.

David

banjered - Posted - 08/26/2025:  06:32:24

Put"singing with the banjo" in the "Q" search engine to the left of this page, should keep you busy for an evening or two. For lyrics , on your computer general search engine type "lyrics" and then the title of the song you want to learn. I find it helpful for me to read the lyrics as I am listening to the song. I have learned songs just by listening but also from tab when it is available. Tim Jumper's "Banjo Players Songbook" is great for lots of songs and tunes tabs. I have learned how to take standard musical notation and convert it into banjo tab when I feel the need to. The latest two songs I have learned without banjo tab are "Deportee" and "Across the Great Divide." I'll probably play those down at the farmer's market this morning. Just keep at it, you'll get it if you persist. banjered

Rusty - Posted - 08/26/2025:  08:14:19

Lots of online teachers.
Adam Hurt
Hillary Burhans
Dan Levenson
And the list goes on….

HoosierDoodles - Posted - 08/26/2025:  08:18:27

That is amazing to be able to take chords and convert it to a clawhammer song! That is my edn goal! I love so many songs but cannot find tab for them.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 08/26/2025:  08:20:43

There are a lot of clawhammer tabs in our tab archive. All are free. You need the right software to download, print, play and listen to a lot of our tabs. Download TefView. Go here: tabledit.com/tefview/index.shtml. That will allow you to download and Tabledit file in our archive.

To find the clawhammer tabs, find the name of the song, then hove over Learn on the left hand side of the page and click on Banjo Tab Library. Then you can either look it up alphabetically or by search.

I'm not too familiar with clawhammer, but I presume there must be beginner books that will get you started on the right track.

As far as a teacher, use our Teacher List, located here: banjohangout.org/teachers/ . Use the advanced search to narrow down what you're looking for.

Good luck in learning clawhammer. Enjoy!

Jon Borcherding - Posted - 08/26/2025:  08:30:20

Suggestion:
Go here:

chriscoole.com/

Sign up for the monthly newsletter.
Check out the section of the newsletter called "Straight from the Horse's Mouth".
There you will find Chris playing a great tune while wearing a ridiculous horse mask. He plays through the tune at speed and also very slowly. Tab is included.
If you can learn to play one of these tunes well, you are well on your way.
If you find yourself struggling, your struggles will show you which part of your fundamentals need work.
This how I learn.
Maybe it will work for you.
Have FUN!

HoosierDoodles - Posted - 08/26/2025:  08:34:30

Solid advice!!!

pinenut - Posted - 08/26/2025:  08:48:28

Tablature is consistently a mixed bag and by the time you figure out that a tab is mediocre; it's half memorized,,, good luck.





I have used most of the clawhammer books. I consistently reference these three more than the rest:



- Clawhammer Style Banjo:, Ken Perlman amazon.com/Clawhammer-Style-Ba...574241540



- Frailing the 5-String Banjo, Barbara Kohler amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Frailing-5-...786663219



- The Banjo Player's Songbook, Tim Jumper amazon.com/Songbook (get this one first)

Edited by - pinenut on 08/26/2025 08:48:58

Lew H - Posted - 08/26/2025:  11:30:51

I find lyric on line by typing in the address/ search slot: "lyrics and chords to: (fill in the blank). So to learn lyrics to Red Rocking Chair, I would search for "Lyrics and chords to: Red Rocking Chair". You will likely find many different sets of lyrics to traditional songs.



If you are also wondering about how to play banjo while singing, here's how I got started. I would start a repetitive rhythm on banjo using bum-ditty and some hammers or pulloffs. For example in open G tuning, Pick (index) on 3rd string opn, ditty, Pick (index) on 1st string 2nd fret, pull off ditty. Repeat over and over until this becomes automatic. You can change chords and keep doing this. If it gets to muscle memory, you are free to work on singing.



Alternate rhythm: Pick 3rd string open, ditty.  Pick 4th string, hammer on 2nd fret, ditty.  again practice this  until it becomes automatic.

There are other patterns for nice backup in other tunings that involve hammer ons and pull offs. These are not hard to figure out just by noodling around in those tunings. 

As you progress, you might want to add filler licks between the melody phrases or verses, etc.

Edited by - Lew H on 08/26/2025 11:35:01

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/26/2025:  13:04:16

Listen as much as you can. I learned that way in the 1960s when there was little available other than records and the Pete Seeger book. I did not and still don’t use tab. If you are going to play with others, you have to develop listening skills. Once you get the right-hand basics down, it’s all practice and listening, and trying to replicate what you hear.

RDP - Posted - 08/26/2025:  13:22:59

Lots of YouTube videos online. Get the tune in ur head on how it goes. Find out the key it’s in. Most clawhammer tunes played in groups are in D, A, or G with some G modal songs thrown in . Learn to tune in double C, G modal and standard G tuning. Get a capo to play with others.

Hoosieroldtime - Posted - 08/26/2025:  15:56:57

Learning songs by ear can be really tough, even with experience. But learning by eye and ear can be easier. YouTube's .75x and .5x speed are amazing for picking out individual notes, and you can watch the fretting hand closer to find chords and positions.



As far as making clawhammer music from a set of chords, just try it. Throw in some hammers and pull offs, try to move from one chord to another smoothly, hit weird notes on purpose. Have fun with it and good luck!

Edit: forgot to mention singing while playing... Also tough at first but just keep playing something 'simple' and trying to sing along. Eventually it clicks like the bum ditty and you're mouth and hands become separate. I fumbled around on angeline the baker for awhile before it clicked. Now I can sing badly and play banjo poorly, at the same time! You will too!

Edited by - Hoosieroldtime on 08/26/2025 16:02:24

HoosierDoodles - Posted - 08/27/2025:  05:04:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lew H

I find lyric on line by typing in the address/ search slot: "lyrics and chords to: (fill in the blank). So to learn lyrics to Red Rocking Chair, I would search for "Lyrics and chords to: Red Rocking Chair". You will likely find many different sets of lyrics to traditional songs.



If you are also wondering about how to play banjo while singing, here's how I got started. I would start a repetitive rhythm on banjo using bum-ditty and some hammers or pulloffs. For example in open G tuning, Pick (index) on 3rd string opn, ditty, Pick (index) on 1st string 2nd fret, pull off ditty. Repeat over and over until this becomes automatic. You can change chords and keep doing this. If it gets to muscle memory, you are free to work on singing.



Alternate rhythm: Pick 3rd string open, ditty.  Pick 4th string, hammer on 2nd fret, ditty.  again practice this  until it becomes automatic.

There are other patterns for nice backup in other tunings that involve hammer ons and pull offs. These are not hard to figure out just by noodling around in those tunings. 

As you progress, you might want to add filler licks between the melody phrases or verses, etc.

 

---

Lew, this is great advice.  Would you just sing any lyrics while practicing the rhythms above?  

Lew H - Posted - 08/27/2025:  06:02:40

"Lew, this is great advice. Would you just sing any lyrics while practicing the rhythms above?"

HoosierDoodles This was not so much a problem for me as it seems to be for many people. But my "method" was to get the rhythm down pat, be able to change chords while keeping it going, then try playing the back up and singing with it. As you learn more banjo, you will find picking patters that work for specific tunings, and be able to use them effortlessly--but it takes time, attention, and practice.

restreet - Posted - 08/27/2025:  07:53:13

I collected tabs for many decades and although they are a good reference for difficult tunes I finally realized they were holding me back. I now subscribe to Hilarie Burhans' patreon site patreon.com/c/hilarieburhans/posts and strum machine.

Mister Lucky - Posted - 08/29/2025:  14:53:17

Many, perhaps most, of the Clawhammer teachers, do not teach songs. They teach fiddle tunes. Back in the day, many banjo players sang and played songs. That is no longer in fashion in the old time community. Now, you must play fiddle tunes, play over the scoop, and no singing. So, which path do you want to walk? That will determine the direction you will take.

pinenut - Posted - 08/29/2025:  15:17:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mister Lucky

Many, perhaps most, of the Clawhammer teachers, do not teach songs. They teach fiddle tunes. Back in the day, many banjo players sang and played songs. That is no longer in fashion in the old time community. Now, you must play fiddle tunes, play over the scoop, and no singing. So, which path do you want to walk? That will determine the direction you will take.

---

Does it matter if it's a song or a tune that supports a number of songs?  Most tunes, of any sort, have words.

It's important to sing at least some of the words with any tune; it doesn't have to be out loud.  

Singing reduces tune 'drift' and keeps emphasis in the right places.  

Mister Lucky - Posted - 08/29/2025:  16:34:50

"Does it matter whether it is a song or a tune?" Yes, actually it does. Most fiddle tunes transcribed for the banjo are very "notey." They are attempting to play all or most of the notes that a fiddle plays, and it often sounds cluttered or clumsy. When I person plays banjo and sings, it is best to keep it as simple as possible.And, listen to any group of old time musicians playing in a group on youtube. Fiddle tunes, and no singing, just round and round with more of the same. I suggest you take the Chris Coole "singing with the banjo" and you will understand my position. Either way, thanks for your reply.

pinenut - Posted - 08/29/2025:  18:48:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mister Lucky

1)  "Does it matter whether it is a song or a tune?" Yes, actually it does.  Most fiddle tunes transcribed for the banjo are very "notey".

2) Fiddle tunes, and no singing, just round and round with more of the same.

3) I suggest you take the Chris Coole "singing with the banjo" and you will understand my position. 

---

1)  Please don't misquote me,  "Does it matter if it's a song or a tune that supports a number of songs? ". 

1)  Song and tune have specific definitions:

 - song  (noun) a short poem or other set of words set to music or meant to be sung.

 - tune (noun) a melody, especially one that characterizes a particular piece of music.

2)  I assume this in reference to that string band 'stuff' that all sounds the same.  I'm not sure what to make of it either.

3)  I'm not as selective about the specific tune or the song associated with it.  In the big picture singing is healthy.  Our brains and the music are better with singing. 

I sing with my banjo every day and mostly play over the vellum.

Apologies, I felt that my post was supportive.  I support your position. 

Mister Lucky - Posted - 08/29/2025:  19:59:01

Well, If you feel that I misquoted you, there is a reason. I tried to make sense of your statement about songs and tunes, because as written it did not make sense to me. No harm intended.



"I support your position." and....... that is greatly appreciated.

One final thought: In any song with a banjo,  there are 3 components: The banjo player, the singer, and the story teller. If any component is weak, it all falls apart. Fiddle tunes are quite different  there is only the banjo player playing the notes of the fiddle. Nothing more, nothing less. 

By the way, the only banjo teacher that I know of, who does not teach fiddle tunes, is Clifton Hicks. He  teaches songs. Perhaps that is why his method is called the "songster method."

Edited by - Mister Lucky on 08/29/2025 20:07:46

Lew H - Posted - 08/30/2025:  05:13:07

We banjo pickers need to quit playing second fiddle to fiddlers.

Mister Lucky - Posted - 09/01/2025:  11:44:28

Totally agree. The OT community has turned the banjo into the servant of the fiddle. I have heard many say that the role of the banjo is to back up the fiddle. Why would they want to take such a subservient role? And furthermore, many fiddle players just sound out of pitch and shrill when the hit notes. Unlike violin players, fiddle players seen to have no idea about tone production.

Lew H - Posted - 09/02/2025:  05:42:32

Mister Lucky Agreed. The new sense of "oldtime" banjo seems to be that we should play fiddle tunes. Many tunes that are interesting on fiddle are just blah on banjo, but some are interesting on both.

There surely are fiddlers who have trouble playing in tune. However, there are bits in fiddling where double stops ideally are dissonant--with the notes being not quite in tune. This is harder to replicate on banjo.