Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/07/2025:  13:30:12

That would be this one: youtube.com/watch?v=nre0Zqq--9...t_radio=1

Then there's this Daybreak in Dixie, which I heard first:

 youtube.com/watch?v=fOGBQV4TWp...t_radio=1

The more common version of "Daybreak," also called Ralph's Banjo Special, is actually primarily a mandolin tune. I don't have the data to dig out recording information such as which came first and when.  But clearly there are two tunes called Daybreak in Dixie, one of which is identical to Ralph's Banjo Special--so we have both a tune with two names and a name with two tunes. 

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 08/07/2025 13:40:58

stanleytone - Posted - 08/07/2025:  14:14:53

I bet the banjo special title was done by the producers. It always was Daybreak in Dixie to me and the other version as well. Ralph even called it Daybreak in Tokyo on his live in japan album

ChunoTheDog - Posted - 08/07/2025:  15:08:39

Probably just slapped on the "Banjo special" title on the cue sheet to claim A/C credit and touch the publishing side revenue.

Hopefully with Bill Napier's knowledge.

ChunoTheDog - Posted - 08/07/2025:  15:15:50

Courtesy of F5Loar over at Mandocafe:

It's two different songs with the same title. When in doubt go back to the original recordings not later re-issues.
What we do know is Bill Napier wrote Daybreak in Dixie as a rather fast mandolin instrumental with the Stanleys Bros. and recorded with them on Nov. 15, 1957 with Carter Stanley taking the credits with BMI. It was common in those days for the band leaders to take the song writting credits of their band members. It had a unique mandolin kick off and ending and followed the pattern in the key of A of ADEA first part and EAEAEADEA second part. Then on July 11,1960 Ralph and Carter and no mandolin go into the studio and record another Daybreak In Dixie but this time much slower and in the key of G (acutally G sharp aka Flattt&Scruggs)and a minor chord change in the first part. It has a rather lack luster Ralph banjo begining and a Scruggs type ending.
If you listen closely to the two versions back to back you can tell Ralph is not even picking the same break. Close but not exact. His 2nd part is totally different on the 2nd version. This time Ralph Stanley takes the credit through BMI so I guess it didn't mess up the song logs. Let's don't get into a Fuedin' Banjo,Duelin' Banjo, Dueling Banjos, Mocking Banjos discussion but it is close to the same name game minus the million dollar lawsuit.
Ralph's version goes GFCDG with same 2nd part as Napier version. Regardless of what happened to the title after those two originial recordings the mystery is why did King records call the later banjo instrumental by the same name and was that where the mistake was made? I would think Ralph intended it to be his instrumental since Napier was no longer around to do his verison and it was different enough to call it something else which it appears later he did so. The problem with guys like Sam Bush and Ethan calling it Ralph's Banjo Special they heard it that way on a reissue record and never studied both versions from the original recordings and just don't know better.
I knew Bill Napier and he did not stutter when saying he wrote the original version as recorded with the Stanleys.
And when I hear someone like Sam or Ethan give credit to Ralph Stanley and not Bill Napier it rather upsets me. And you can't say here's Ralph's Banjo Special written by Bill Napier cause that ain't so. His title was always Daybreak In Dixie and he carried that name title to his grave. I guess you could say I'm going to pick Daybreak In Dixie now which way do you want it the Napier or the Ralph way?
So if you go by what I hear Ethan and others are picking it's the Napier version which to my knowledge has never been called Ralph's Banjo Special either by Ralph or on re-issue recordings. But I guess it's possible a truck stop CD released the original Napier version as Ralph's Banjo Special. The Stanley Bros stopped studio recording in 1966 and only those two versions of DayBreak In Dixie were recorded. When in doubt about the future go to the past for guideance. The future you can change, the past you can not.

corcoran - Posted - 08/07/2025:  16:07:05

Here is the tablature of my arrangement of Daybreak in Dixie / Ralph's Banjo Special:

banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...l&v=28225

The original version written by Bill Napier makes a fine banjo instrumental, and it is mighty slick on the mandolin as well. I posted the original recording in the media section of my BHO page:

ttps://banjohangout.org/myhang...&archived=

You will note that the twin fiddles in the recording were by Howdy Forrester and Benny Martin. You can't do much better than that.

stanleytone - Posted - 08/07/2025:  17:58:46

Ralph burns it up on the Napier version.
On the Stanley Brothers Starday/King Instrumentals album two separate recordings of the non Napier version of D.I.D. are to be found.

BanjoBowers - Posted - 08/07/2025:  19:37:48

Daybreak in Dixie? Ralph's Banjo Special? It is confusing to think that there are two songs with the same title, (which is not so out of the normal).

Here's the way I understand it.

In November of 1957, the Stanley's went into the studio, with Bill Napier on mandolin. They recorded the classic " Daybreak in Dixie" for Mercury.

At that time, Mercury was giving all of its "hillbilly" music to the Starday records people, i.e. Pappy Daily and Don Pierce et al.

This was because Mercury wanted people who sold a lot of records to be on their label, and they wanted Starday to be like a subsidiary.

This didn't work out for both companies,

so Starday and Mercury shelved the agreement.

Unfortunately, this left the Stanley's without a record label, so Don Pierce gathered all the folks that mercury dropped and signed them to the Starday label. Now, Starday kept the rights to the recordings hat Mercury gave them so all of the Stanley Recordings up to that time were available to Starday.

About a month after, the Stanley's were approached by King records, Syd Nathan, to record for King. So off to King they went with the agreement that they would still record a certain number of songs for Starday.

Go to July of 1960. Ralph decided to record "Daybreak" as a banjo tune. He changed it to what he thought would sound better on the banjo by putting a "7" chord in the first line.

This is how that recording came to pass and has been recorded in that fashion by several groups such as Skaggs and Whitley and the Knoxville Grass. In 1968, after the death of Syd Nathan, Starday purchased King records, and it became " Starday-King" records. Then In 1974, Starday King was sold to Gusto.

Starday was big on "anthology albums. Different songs by different artists, bluegrass and country alike.

Here's where the "Ralph's Banjo Special" title starts to appear on album covers.

In order not to confuse consumers about what song's where on the anthology albums, they changed the name of the song. That way if you got a "Power-Pak" album and it had Daybreak on it, then it was the mandolin centric song. If it had Ralph's Banjo Special, then it was the banjo centric song.

Sorry about this being lengthy, but it was the record labels that did this for convenance, but they gave us some confusion.

Edited by - BanjoBowers on 08/07/2025 19:39:58

stanleytone - Posted - 08/08/2025:  04:21:55

The Stanley Brothers and Ralph post Carter ( or their producers) were masters at repackaging albums by shuffling the same songs like a deck of cards and dealing them out on various albums. I used to joke that ralph put out over a hundred albums but only recorded 10.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 08/08/2025:  07:03:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChunoTheDog

Courtesy of F5Loar over at Mandocafe:



It's two different songs with the same title. When in doubt go back to the original recordings not later re-issues.

What we do know is Bill Napier wrote Daybreak in Dixie as a rather fast mandolin instrumental with the Stanleys Bros. and recorded with them on Nov. 15, 1957 with Carter Stanley taking the credits with BMI. It was common in those days for the band leaders to take the song writting credits of their band members. It had a unique mandolin kick off and ending and followed the pattern in the key of A of ADEA first part and EAEAEADEA second part. Then on July 11,1960 Ralph and Carter and no mandolin go into the studio and record another Daybreak In Dixie but this time much slower and in the key of G (acutally G sharp aka Flattt&Scruggs)and a minor chord change in the first part. It has a rather lack luster Ralph banjo begining and a Scruggs type ending.

If you listen closely to the two versions back to back you can tell Ralph is not even picking the same break. Close but not exact. His 2nd part is totally different on the 2nd version. This time Ralph Stanley takes the credit through BMI so I guess it didn't mess up the song logs. Let's don't get into a Fuedin' Banjo,Duelin' Banjo, Dueling Banjos, Mocking Banjos discussion but it is close to the same name game minus the million dollar lawsuit.

Ralph's version goes GFCDG with same 2nd part as Napier version. Regardless of what happened to the title after those two originial recordings the mystery is why did King records call the later banjo instrumental by the same name and was that where the mistake was made? I would think Ralph intended it to be his instrumental since Napier was no longer around to do his verison and it was different enough to call it something else which it appears later he did so. The problem with guys like Sam Bush and Ethan calling it Ralph's Banjo Special they heard it that way on a reissue record and never studied both versions from the original recordings and just don't know better.

I knew Bill Napier and he did not stutter when saying he wrote the original version as recorded with the Stanleys.

And when I hear someone like Sam or Ethan give credit to Ralph Stanley and not Bill Napier it rather upsets me. And you can't say here's Ralph's Banjo Special written by Bill Napier cause that ain't so. His title was always Daybreak In Dixie and he carried that name title to his grave. I guess you could say I'm going to pick Daybreak In Dixie now which way do you want it the Napier or the Ralph way?

So if you go by what I hear Ethan and others are picking it's the Napier version which to my knowledge has never been called Ralph's Banjo Special either by Ralph or on re-issue recordings. But I guess it's possible a truck stop CD released the original Napier version as Ralph's Banjo Special. The Stanley Bros stopped studio recording in 1966 and only those two versions of DayBreak In Dixie were recorded. When in doubt about the future go to the past for guideance. The future you can change, the past you can not.

---

Despite the differences in tempo and instrumentation, and the presence of that flat-VII chord (NOT a minor chord!) that smooths the transition from I to IV, the two recordings are basically the same tune.

Tractor1 - Posted - 08/08/2025:  07:34:14

I remember seeing the non rapier version in a tab and wondering about it--now that you all have brought it to life--I tend to think they threw those"love Come Home"chords in there --and then back to business as usual ==hard to beat a good stop time measure--as far as the LCH chords--- it is a classic progression in other genres also--one of top drawer juicy changes of which there is a limited supply

Tractor1 - Posted - 08/08/2025:  07:43:19

You will note that the twin fiddles in the recording were by Howdy Forrester and Benny Martin. You can't do much better than that.

---

wonderful thanks for the heads up on these 2 tone monsters--there unison was melted together  

stanleytone - Posted - 08/08/2025:  07:45:28

Maybe Ralph should have callled his version Daybreak on Clinch Mountain

The Old Timer - Posted - 08/08/2025:  10:06:33

Saying Ralph's Banjo Special (as originally recorded) and Daybreak in Dixie (as originally recorded) are basically the same tune, is like saying Bluegrass Breakdown (as originally recorded) and Foggy Mountain Breakdown (as originally recorded) are basically the same tune.



This is THE BANJO HANGOUT and we as banjo players, of ALL PEOPLE, should know that Ralph's Banjo Special is a DIFFERENT TUNE from Daybreak in Dixie.



I am deeply disappointed in the otherwise fine recording and video of Daybreak in Dixie by Alison Brown, Gina Britt, et al. being titled "Ralph's Banjo Special". It has no flat VII chord, so it's NOT Ralph's Banjo Special. Just because a record label reissued a cut with the wrong title doesn't mean we have to perpetuate it.

I thank Bill Rogers for raising this critical issue.  I had been luxuriating in my perceived onliness of knowing the difference.  Now I have at least a few fellow travelers.



HARRRRRUMPHHHHH!

Edited by - The Old Timer on 08/08/2025 10:08:48

The Old Timer - Posted - 08/08/2025:  10:43:24

Oh my, oh my, oh my, what a tangled web. I just read the notes in the booklet in the Bear Family box set of The Stanley Brothers The Early Starday King Years 1958-1961.



It reviews Bill Napier's original "mandolin-centric" (I like that) Daybreak in Dixie for Mercury in 1957.



In 1960 King recorded the "banjo-centric" (and mandolin-less) other tune, which we're belaboring. King issued two versions of this cut featuring Ralph leading off and Vernon Derrick playing two identical fiddle breaks, in nominal key of G. King then had George Shuffler and Curly Lambert on slap rhythm guitars and a drummer named Gene Redd overdub backbeat rhythm. The initial "clean" cut was issued on 45, EP and King LP 719 "In Person", titled by King as "Daybreak in Dixie". Oh my. When "In Person" was reissued in stereo on King 791 it used the overdubbed heavy rhythm cut. Again titled "Daybreak in Dixie". No explanation why. But the liner notes booklet states clearly that Ralph "altered the tune by adding an extra chord" and also "thought of changing the name to Daddy-O" which was written on the original King ledgers.



So Ralph thought it was different and had picked a name for it. 



"Someone" at King changed it and released it (twice) with the old (wrong) name. Listing Ralph Stanley as the author.  King couldn't hear any difference or didn't care?



The liner notes in the Bear Family box set don't even mention the title "Ralph's Banjo Special". Will we ever know who came up with that?



So, the plot sickens...



Did both tunes get released under the name "Ralph's Banjo Special" on reissues? It would symmetrical at least, since both tunes were originally released as "Daybreak in Dixie".

Edited by - The Old Timer on 08/08/2025 10:45:36

Tractor1 - Posted - 08/08/2025:  11:17:18

personally I was speaking of the chord layout--daybreak in dixie being a mandolin tune does not cause a banjo player to get rocks thrown at them if they don't clone a break--especially since playing exactly like Ralph is beyond my chops---I used to have a break figured out but have let it slip away

corcoran - Posted - 08/08/2025:  14:46:35

I first heard "Daybreak in Dixie" in 1963, on an album entitled "Stu Ramsay Loves Dobro Banjo Guitar Harmonica." Ramsay was a high school kid in Chicago who received a contract to record an album for Mercury Records, and it included his take on the version of "Daybreak in Dixie" with the VII chord. Only later did I discover Bill Napier's original tune with the Stanley Brothers, which I find to be the more compelling version.

And "Daybreak in Dixie" is a far better title in my opinion. "Ralph's Banjo Special" sounds to me like a title a promoter or the janitor came up with.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 08/09/2025:  07:09:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Old Timer

Saying Ralph's Banjo Special (as originally recorded) and Daybreak in Dixie (as originally recorded) are basically the same tune, is like saying Bluegrass Breakdown (as originally recorded) and Foggy Mountain Breakdown (as originally recorded) are basically the same tune.



This is THE BANJO HANGOUT and we as banjo players, of ALL PEOPLE, should know that Ralph's Banjo Special is a DIFFERENT TUNE from Daybreak in Dixie.



I am deeply disappointed in the otherwise fine recording and video of Daybreak in Dixie by Alison Brown, Gina Britt, et al. being titled "Ralph's Banjo Special". It has no flat VII chord, so it's NOT Ralph's Banjo Special. Just because a record label reissued a cut with the wrong title doesn't mean we have to perpetuate it.

I thank Bill Rogers for raising this critical issue.  I had been luxuriating in my perceived onliness of knowing the difference.  Now I have at least a few fellow travelers.



HARRRRRUMPHHHHH!

---

I dunno, old friend. Is it still OK to call it "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" if the guitar player plays an Em chord?



I mean, where does one draw the line? Nome sane?

pick1936 - Posted - 08/09/2025:  10:06:47

Just like when Jim Mills recorded a tune with different name? It was exact tune as (I'm Gonna Sleep With One Open From Now On).