banjobenjamen - Posted - 05/27/2025:  19:37:46

I know this is a loaded question lol but I'm hoping someone smarter than me at this can give any input at all to what he's doing on his second break here? Or is it just Bela being Bela lol

 

youtu.be/tJHPNKnVzls

GStump - Posted - 05/27/2025:  19:48:12

Improvisation.... most of which seems to fit .... kinda' sorta' maybe possibly perhaps.... more or less..... point is, don't be afraid to experiment and try things. chances are some of what you come up with may fit.... (key word being some!)

BigFiveChord - Posted - 05/27/2025:  20:44:25

For most of the second break, he's rolling (pretty fast!) over sixths that come from basic root-position chord structures. He ends the break with a melodic run. It's impressive and fast and musical, but nothing out of reach for an advanced banjo player. You can absolutely, 100% learn this stuff.

pfalzgrass - Posted - 05/27/2025:  23:10:08

quote:

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Originally posted by BigFiveChord

For most of the second break, he's rolling (pretty fast!) over sixths that come from basic root-position chord structures. He ends the break with a melodic run. It's impressive and fast and musical, but nothing out of reach for an advanced banjo player. You can absolutely, 100% learn this stuff.

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The keyword here is sixths. I am currently diving into some jazz and need to learn sixths chord positions. A new world, often required to use all four fretting fingers and stretch them over four frets or knot them otherwise. Coming from standard bluegrass chord shapes, sevenths and minors this feels a bit like starting new on the banjo.

banjobenjamen - Posted - 05/28/2025:  05:18:28

Perfect! That’s exactly what I was looking for. I have not dove into 6ths but that gives me a direction to go. Thank you very much

BigFiveChord - Posted - 05/28/2025:  10:19:37

quote:

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Originally posted by pfalzgrass

quote:

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Originally posted by BigFiveChord

For most of the second break, he's rolling (pretty fast!) over sixths that come from basic root-position chord structures. He ends the break with a melodic run. It's impressive and fast and musical, but nothing out of reach for an advanced banjo player. You can absolutely, 100% learn this stuff.

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The keyword here is sixths. I am currently diving into some jazz and need to learn sixths chord positions. A new world, often required to use all four fretting fingers and stretch them over four frets or knot them otherwise. Coming from standard bluegrass chord shapes, sevenths and minors this feels a bit like starting new on the banjo.

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Just for clarity: I was referring to the interval of a sixth, not a "sixth chord" (e.g. C6). (Athough nothing wrong with that, of course.) He's moving up and down the neck using the interval of a sixth between the 1st and 3rd string. In G major, the sixths would be G-E, A-F#, B-G, C-A etc...

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 05/28/2025:  10:24:30

quote:

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Originally posted by banjobenjamen

I know this is a loaded question lol but I'm hoping someone smarter than me at this can give any input at all to what he's doing on his second break here? Or is it just Bela being Bela lol

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here's an analysis of some of it

Edited by - mmuussiiccaall on 05/28/2025 10:28:38

Bela Dixie Solo

Bela Dixie Solo

banjobenjamen - Posted - 05/28/2025:  10:58:04

Wow thank you!!

Old Hickory - Posted - 06/08/2025:  18:39:05

banjobenjamen:

The tab posted by Rick / mmuussiiccaall probably gets the notes right, but there are places where I don't think he's captured what Béla is actually doing. As Jon/BigFiveChord  described above, sixth technique involves rolling (either forward or backward) on 5th, 3rd, and 1st strings, with the fretted notes on 3rd and 1st being a sixth apart. The non-music-theory way to describe those notes is: they're the 3rd and 1st string fretted notes of F-shape and D-shape major chords and the minor chord shapes in which the 3rd string is a fret lower than the 1st (as in the 9-10-10 Am) or two frets lower than the first (as in the 7-7-9 Bm).

In Rick's tab, I think you could come up with something similar to what I just described by (in the second half of the first line) changing all of his 2nd string at 8th fret G notes to 5th string open. 

For an introductory lesson on the concept of sixths, watch this Eli Gilbert video.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 06/08/2025 18:40:41

Old Hickory - Posted - 06/08/2025:  18:47:37

Add to the above: In the first half of the second line of Rick's tab, change the 2nd string/3rd fret D to 1st string open, both times it occurs.  It fits the pattern.

Old Hickory - Posted - 06/08/2025:  19:18:11

And here's Tony Trischka teaching the basics of sixths. Also working in G major scale like Eli. Just a different approach to the same thing.

I like how Eli shows several different picking patterns in which sixth can be applied and explains how each note pair implies two different chords (I'd say some imply three or four chords). But I offer Tony's lesson in case he says or does something that better conveys the idea to you (or anyone).

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 06/08/2025:  21:17:08

Thanks for including those videos Ken.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't like calling them sixths. True, an interval between G and E is an interval of 6 scale notes. But I can't help associating a sixth with the chord of the same name, which has a very distinctive sound and not at all like the very resolved sound of this dyad.
So a G to an E is a sixth interval if you assume that the G is the root note, and the E is the harmony. But if you swap the octave of the G and get E - G, what you have now is a third. The most common of harmonizations, and a very resolved sound. So I guess I like to think of the two as the root with the third in the lower octave.
Music theory is all about relationships, right?

250gibson - Posted - 06/09/2025:  08:25:32

They are usually called 13ths when referring to the 6th degree of the scale.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 06/09/2025:  10:00:11

That would be a dominant.

250gibson - Posted - 06/09/2025:  11:13:29

quote:

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Originally posted by Laurence Diehl

That would be a dominant.

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The Dominant is the 5th degree. The 6th degree is the Mediant and is usually called the 13th. 

250gibson - Posted - 06/09/2025:  13:08:45

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

quote:

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Originally posted by Laurence Diehl

That would be a dominant.

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The Dominant is the 5th degree. The 6th degree is the Mediant and is usually called the 13th. 

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Sorry, was supposed to be Sub-Mediant. 

Old Hickory - Posted - 06/09/2025:  15:38:55

quote:

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Originally posted by Laurence Diehl

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't like calling them sixths. True, an interval between G and E is an interval of 6 scale notes. . . . a G to an E is a sixth interval if you assume that the G is the root note, and the E is the harmony. But if you swap the octave of the G and get E - G, what you have now is a third. 

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Yes. I suppose. The distance (interval) of G UP to E is a sixth. But the interval of E DOWN to G is also a sixth. So, yes, the interval between G and E in either direction is a sixth as long as G is the lower note. Not necessarily a "root," because a chord doesn't have to be involved. It can be a note of melody with a note of harmony a sixth above it. Does that make it a "root"? I don't know. The limb is getting pretty shaky.

I assume all intervals with bottom and top notes swapped become something else.