jsinjin - Posted - 04/14/2025:  07:07:16

I’ve started using a click track (basically a metronome) in one ear while I play with strum machine. It’s odd to use this much hardware just to play a single song but I have so much trouble hearing the timing. I’ve been working on 4:4 timing as the two songs I have are in that time signature. I really have trouble determining the flow of notes when they are 1/8 or when they skip a note with two 1/8 substituting for one 1/4. If I get off on the timing I have to either wait until the whole song restarts or just start over. So I’m practicing the memorization of both the notes and the timing. It’s definitely hard but the click track separate from the strum machine playing the backup is helping. I’m guessing most people don’t have a problem with this but I definitely do have a total gap in timing. Does anyone else struggle with this?

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/14/2025:  08:18:42

Are you counting as you play? That helps a lot of people to keep up with both tempo and time. If you're in 4/4 time and have a string of 8th notes you'd count 1 *& 2 & 3 & 4 & for each note. If you're playing 8th and quarter notes you'd count 1 & 2(quarter note) 3 & 4(quarter note). The other counts are 8th notes. You might try and see if this helps.

Keith Billik - Posted - 04/14/2025:  09:50:32

quote:

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Originally posted by jsinjin

I’ve started using a click track (basically a metronome) in one ear while I play with strum machine. It’s odd to use this much hardware just to play a single song but I have so much trouble hearing the timing. I’ve been working on 4:4 timing as the two songs I have are in that time signature. I really have trouble determining the flow of notes when they are 1/8 or when they skip a note with two 1/8 substituting for one 1/4. If I get off on the timing I have to either wait until the whole song restarts or just start over. So I’m practicing the memorization of both the notes and the timing. It’s definitely hard but the click track separate from the strum machine playing the backup is helping. I’m guessing most people don’t have a problem with this but I definitely do have a total gap in timing. Does anyone else struggle with this?

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First of all, as a practical matter: how are you syncing up your click track to be sure that the beats match the rhythm of strum machine? If these are even a tiny bit off, that would drive me crazy and could be doing you more harm than good.

If you are having trouble getting in rhythm, I'd also suggest starting with basic rolls and trying to achieve consistent timing, before attempting to add left hand fingering and following a song form. That is just adding variables, when it sounds like what you need is to break it down to the simplest building blocks to start.

Hope that helps.

KB

jsinjin - Posted - 04/14/2025:  10:02:29

So I’m very carefully tuning the metronome of the “click track” to the timing on strum machine. I’ve noticed that the timing of both is pretty accurate down to the millisecond with the timing. I wrote a script in python to start them both at the same time that lets me execute the start of both and I separated the “one, two, three, four -start” of strum machine at a given beat per min to the click track. It took some initial fine tuning but then it was pretty easy after I saw how the start was set by time standard in strum machine. So they are pretty “on” between 45 bpm and 90 bpm which is where I play mostly. Faster than that is way above my ability.

I’m actually very very consistent with my timing of all of my clawhammer series of licks from bum ditty to drop thumb to hammer in and pull off and other series. I measure that constantly for myself. My problem is that I just can’t really tell beats of patterns so to learn a song I literally memorize every single note one after another and have to out it together. When I’m playing that it is hard to get timing back on when it gets off which is why I’m using the click track to internally count the beats. I would try other things but after a full year I still haven’t developed either an understanding of rhyme or melody by listening. I can’t even hum the song I’ve played for a year without the notes being played on the banjo one after another. So the timing and memorization are what are helping me.

Owen - Posted - 04/14/2025:  10:29:40

Syncing up a click track with Strum Machine... ???? Geez, this is getting complicated.   Maybe having only one working ear is a blessing in disguise???   Hear my banjo OR backing track OR other instruments OR the singer, OR  ???   Choose one and que sera sera??  

Fwiw, a couple of reasonably accomplished musicians have told me that I have "good timing" ... something that, so far as I know, happened without any targeted instruction/practice.

I tried an online metronome that provided a visual cue in addition to the auditory one, but for some reason or other it didn't inspire (?) me.

P.S. I'm not asking for referrals or direction to any program / teacher / method, just recounting a bit of my "banjo journey" [cough, cough], with an aside that the spectrum is  v-e-r-y  w-i-d-e.

Edited by - Owen on 04/14/2025 10:30:37

jsinjin - Posted - 04/14/2025:  10:38:01

I’ve been told I have terrible timing and often drift off into strange speed ups and slow downs. I can tell if I record. And yes this is complicated but as I can’t hum happy birthday at 55, can’t tap out 4 beats per measure with consistent timing and can’t figure out a melody to save my life, this is the best way for me to move forward. I’ve been playing Polly out the kettle on for one year. At least 100 times per day with a few days missed here and there for travel without my banjo. I’ve probably watched and slowed down the song on every YouTube video. And I can’t even hum it or make it play by tapping on a table. I can recite every single note both as sheet music and tablature and do that very fast. I can even write it backwards now. And slowly I can increase the speed but my timing gets very off if I drift away while I play it.

Owen - Posted - 04/14/2025:  10:54:57

John, in primary school did your class sing those old bluegrass standards  .... Twinkle Twinkle  /  Row, Row Row Your Boat  /  I'm a Little Teapot /  The Wheels On The Bus /  Way Down Yonder In The Paw-Paw Patch  /  Etc. / Etc.?   Did you have "rhythm band"?

[I remember our teacher trying to have us do RRRYB as a "round" (?) and thinking it sounded pretty bad ... and wondering "What's the point?".   Come to think of it I still don't know what the point was.  ]

jsinjin - Posted - 04/14/2025:  11:13:57

I ignored it mostly. I could never understand why we were having to do the music thing. I mostly pretended and hoped to get out of it to read. I didn’t like school very much until college. I recently took a cognitive test for amusia and was found pretty far into the spectrum. Mostly I just don’t understand. But as I keep saying. This is working for me. I just don’t hum, tap, understand, connect with or enjoy music the way a lot of people do. I can’t think of a single song I can hum or sing as a song. I pretend at church or happy birthday or whatever and just assumed my whole life everyone did that. One song kinda sounds just like another if I listen to them one after another. Without the lyrics they’re just sort of notes. It’s fine with me but also why I keep using tricks to help my practice of songs. And lots of people keep asking “can you hum?” Not really. I mean I can hum but humming a tune is an answer of “no not really”. I can’t think of one anyway. Again, I’ve played one single song over 100 times a day for a year and I can’t hum the opening bars of it. I can recite it note by note but I have no idea what it should sound like or what others make it sound like. It’s just how I think and do. I love to play; spent nearly 15 hours practicing two songs and tons of drop thumb, pull off etc this weekend as well as practicing the tab for the upcoming Tom Collins clawhammer bootcamp song.

Ric in Richmond - Posted - 04/14/2025:  11:37:19

I have a :Beat Buddy" drum machine that graphically depicts where you are in the count. Very handy. I usually just use the wood block metronome sound but sometimes a country brush beat...

250gibson - Posted - 04/14/2025:  12:00:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsinjin

So I’m very carefully tuning the metronome of the “click track” to the timing on strum machine. I’ve noticed that the timing of both is pretty accurate down to the millisecond with the timing. I wrote a script in python to start them both at the same time that lets me execute the start of both and I separated the “one, two, three, four -start” of strum machine at a given beat per min to the click track. It took some initial fine tuning but then it was pretty easy after I saw how the start was set by time standard in strum machine. So they are pretty “on” between 45 bpm and 90 bpm which is where I play mostly. Faster than that is way above my ability.



I’m actually very very consistent with my timing of all of my clawhammer series of licks from bum ditty to drop thumb to hammer in and pull off and other series. I measure that constantly for myself. My problem is that I just can’t really tell beats of patterns so to learn a song I literally memorize every single note one after another and have to out it together. When I’m playing that it is hard to get timing back on when it gets off which is why I’m using the click track to internally count the beats. I would try other things but after a full year I still haven’t developed either an understanding of rhyme or melody by listening. I can’t even hum the song I’ve played for a year without the notes being played on the banjo one after another. So the timing and memorization are what are helping me.

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I belief that strum machine has a metronome/click track feature that you can turn on and off. Using that would eliminate the need to sync up the external one with the strum machine. 

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/14/2025:  18:31:51

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

If you're in 4/4 time and have a string of 8th notes you'd count 1 *& 2 & 3 & 4 & for each note. If you're playing 8th and quarter notes you'd count 1 & 2(quarter note) 3 & 4(quarter note). 

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I don't think so. You need 4 quarter notes to 8 eighth notes. You have only 2.

The count would be:

[1 &]  [2 &]  [3 &]  [4 &]

Each bracketed pair of eighths is one quarter.  If you were to play each quarter note and only quarter notes, you'd play on the numbered count.

Kstevensmd - Posted - 04/15/2025:  03:21:21

John, Strum Machine now has a built-in metronome that you can use during playback of a tune. Just look for it under the menu bar on the right. It works great.

jsinjin - Posted - 04/15/2025:  07:49:15

Didn’t know that! That will simplify a lot. Thanks

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/15/2025:  13:30:58

jsinjin

Do you know how to read the timing in your tablature?

This doesn't require musical ability. Just reading and counting.

Try this exercise:

Count "1 and 2 and . . ." etc. at whatever speed you want. In your head or out loud. As you count, tap your finger on the counts that are played notes. Even better, tap or brush on the flat surface as your right hand would move in playing the piece.

I'm not suggesting anything I wouldn't -- or don't -- do myself. Quite often, for tricky passages in pieces I'm learning from tab, I'll do some form of timing count with my fingers not playing anything.

I understand you have trouble hearing and feeling the timing of a piece. Tab that indicates the timing relieves you of the need to feel or otherwise sense what's happening. Just read, count, and  move your fingers when instructed.