dingrock - Posted - 04/13/2025:  05:43:50

Hello - new to the forum. I'm sure this has been asked a couple of times but where I am banjos are few and far between and what can be bought new here are either $1000+ or $300 Chinese ones that go for $150 in the states.



I've used some of cheap instruments in the past and really would like to avoid them if possible. The value also just seems bad, so that pretty much leaves me with the extremely limited 2nd hand market which turns out to be an old Musima for about $400 (from a guy that hasn't answered) or a fretless Deering for about $500 from around the corner that I might be able to talk him down to $400 which I understand is and looks like a much better quality/condition instrument.



I had periods of playing guitar, bass, and even piano, but I would say I have pretty poor musical inclination. Bass guitar wasn't so so bad but I moved so I left it behind and really never got to any respectable level. I enjoyed not using a pick though (vs guitar) and actually feeling the strings so it's seems like I'd want to give clawhammer a shot if that makes any difference here.



Anyways, just looking for thoughts and advice as I reckon a 150 years ago there were no frets but you could also learn from your buddy or family who played - a luxury I won't have vs the myriad of books today geared towards fretted playing

Edited by - dingrock on 04/14/2025 10:07:42

spoonfed - Posted - 04/13/2025:  06:02:02

Deering for sure, Musima are pretty poor German made instruments that were not even very good when they were made 50+ years ago.

RG - Posted - 04/13/2025:  14:11:17

My first fretless was a $100.00 Japanese "bottlecap" banjo that I ripped the frets out of and filled the subsequent empty grooves with glued in toothpicks that I sanded down so the neck wouldn't bow... that was in 1974. A fretless is a fretless, doesn't have to be anything special, just something that you can play.

John Gribble - Posted - 04/15/2025:  06:45:41

As someone who loves playing fretless, I wouldn't suggest learning on fretless. Aside from the issue of playing in tune, there are issues with tone clarity, which aren't an issue with frets. A low-end banjo, if properly set up, with a straight neck, low action, head properly tightened and the bridge in place, should be adequate to get you going.

writerrad - Posted - 04/15/2025:  11:44:27

All banjos were fretless as a rule until some makers started putting frets on banjos in the 1870s, kind of like trainer wheels on a child's bike, and the practice became widespread by the 1880s. It is not really until perhaps the 1890s that fretted banjos became the rule rather than exception.   So all banjo instructional material produced before the 1880s or perhaps the 1890s was designed for fretless banjos.   Since the 1850s there was a widespread banjo instruction industry involving banjo entertainers, music teachers, and banjo manufacturers and sellers, all of whom were producing  instructional material on playing the banjo,  all of it aimed at fretless banjo playing since most banjos had no frets.

150 years ago in 1875, a person, at least in the US, England, and Ireland, especially in the cities, but increasingly in towns spread acoss the North and the Midwest and in the cities of the South and beyond would have probably had as much or better access to banjo instruction as a person does today.  The banjo experienced a big commercial explosion that began in the late 1830s and kept expanding with a major jump after the Civil War.  Part of this was the wide spread of banjo instruction either through entertainers and music teachers giving lessons,  through the publication of many instruction books, usually called "tutors" starting in the 1850s, and with entire banjo "schools" or "colleges" launched by entertainers or banjo sellers.

The banjo was such a marker of Victorian culture in the late 19th Century, that Victoria herself was widely known to be a banjo enthusiast right from Sweeney's dazzling performances in London in 1843.  She sent her two sons who did become Kings and a daughter who did not to take lessons from the Bohee Brothers to Afro-Canadian  banjo entertainers who made their Market in Boston and Philly but stayed in England when a minstrel show they appeared in toured England in the 1870s.   

Very many of the banjo tutors, the instruction books for fretless 19th century banjos, are available online in PDF for the download.   There is also an online minstrel banjo group that centers on reviving and playing the repertoire mainly of the 1840s through the 70s that has other material on the various minstrel styles of banjo. 

Thanks.

Edited by - writerrad on 04/15/2025 12:57:14

banjo roo - Posted - 04/16/2025:  03:35:54

Deerings are great value for money. A great starting banjo that many folk would never need to feel the need to upgrade, or have the frustrations associated with cheap instruments.
But, I second John and don't reccomend learning on a fretless, particularly if you don't have a fretless teacher nearby. I also love fretless, but they are a very different instrument, and the approach to playing is very different. But if you are feeling brave and committed,
you can learn on a fretless. Not sure where you are from, but a banjo in the realm of $1000 is still a reasonable price for a reasonable beginner instrument in Australia. Not cheap, sure, but banjos are not a cheap instrument.

banjoboyd - Posted - 04/16/2025:  07:23:20

Is the Deering a factory-made fretless Goodtime or something else? In any case, that is probably your best bet.

I started playing banjo on fretless -- first a minstrel-style tackhead and then a cheap Asian banjo I took the frets out of -- and I don't see that it hurt me in the long run. Then again, I already had experience playing fretless bass going into it. If you feel really inspired to play fretless, I'm not going to dissuade you.

As Tony mentions, there are many19th-century books written with fretless in mind. But if you are looking to be an old-time player, you might consider Brad Leftwich's book on Round Peak style.

Spudwheat - Posted - 04/17/2025:  05:51:28

I am learning on Deering. Initially, I borrowed a Chinese banjo, made in the 70's from a friend. The banjo was "okay", sounded good to me, but my-oh-my, was it heavy! It also had inferior tuning pegs. The Deering is a really well made, nice instrument. It is solid. I had this re-confirmed when my another friend showed me his Dean. It was lighter than the original Chinese one, but when I re-strung a broken string, it felt junky compared to mine.



Here are a few thoughts. Please keep in mind that I have zero knowledge playing fretless: If you're truly committed,you will be able to learn fretless. If it were me, I would take a pencil and put small marks on the top edge of the neck (not across the neck) where the frets would be. I presume this would be of great help to you. If you have played a stringed instrument before, you know how important form is.



Are you familiar with Reverb? (reverb.com) It is a website where people list their equipment. I bought my first Deering, a Goodtime open back, 5 string, 11" pot (great for learning) for $346 out the door. It came from Canada, took a lifetime to get through customs (hence, borrowing the Chinese rig), but in the end, was worth it. I live in a banjo-starved  environment, so banjos aren't easy to come by.

if you want something nice for a reasonable price, patience and tenacity are in order. After I bought the Goodtime, I saw a Deering Americana pop up on craigslist. For various reasons, I wasn't able to travel to get it. It was pretty far away, would require an overnight trip, etc. But it was very inexpensive. I asked many friends if they had any relatives living nearby the banjo. Luck prevailed, one had a daughter within 10 miles. She met the seller in a public place , bought the banjo, (I told her to check it for any cracks)and dropped it off to UPS. They, in turn, packed it (they guarantee it if they pack it) and sent it. The whole event cost me less than half of the price of the banjo new. It is a really nice banjo.

There is the possibility of a banjo tucked away in a closet near you, post an ISO ad locally.

if you can borrow one, that's how you might get a good taste of it.

Good luck on your journey. Cheers!

dingrock - Posted - 04/17/2025:  06:30:36

Welp after reading some of these recommendations I probably would’ve gotten the fretted, but shortly after posting bought the fretless given how close he was and the price only being marginally more.


Turns out the seller is a local professional musician, basically told me what you have. Maybe he wouldn’t recommend fretless but by no means is it impossible to learn on.


Having fun with it, but can tell it won’t be a doozy.

dingrock - Posted - 04/17/2025:  06:34:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjo roo

Deerings are great value for money. A great starting banjo that many folk would never need to feel the need to upgrade, or have the frustrations associated with cheap instruments.

But, I second John and don't reccomend learning on a fretless, particularly if you don't have a fretless teacher nearby. I also love fretless, but they are a very different instrument, and the approach to playing is very different. But if you are feeling brave and committed,

you can learn on a fretless. Not sure where you are from, but a banjo in the realm of $1000 is still a reasonable price for a reasonable beginner instrument in Australia. Not cheap, sure, but banjos are not a cheap instrument.

---

Same boat in Israel, going to be about a grand. Figured if I'm digging it but just really struggling I can make a trip over to the country's banjo man and maybe work something out with him before dropping that kind of money.