Needless to say, eventhough this had drifted from the original conversation, the state of education in America is, well... Stunning.
I disagree with the claims that education in America is poor. Or worse than it was before. I teach in a college in science and math and I also work at a very large enterprise computer company. I simply can't believe the level of brilliance that college students have coming out of high school today. That is stunning to me. Many have now completed differential equations while in high school. I was lucky to have had access to calculus at a local junior college my senior year of high school in 1989 and nearly every student at my kids public high school finished calc 1 their junior or senior year. Their command of English literature surpasses anything I had 30 years ago. Their capabilities in coding are radically brilliant beyond any capacity. At my employment we pay a large sum to a major Texas university just for access to the students graduating in computer engineering to beg them with salaries over 150k starting and they are wooed with apple, google, Microsoft and more. My kids high school offers 7 languages including Spanish, German, Latin, Chinese, Arabic and Russian. I think it is a broad brush platitude people use to bemoan something that isn't quite as widespread as it may seem. In fact I think it's a frustration that the education system has become so good for these kids. They're able to amass so many concepts and information so much easier than I ever had the chance to approach. I also know that our local high school and IsD is one of multiple in DFW with that level of education and parental support and these are mega 6A level schools. We have major orchestras and bands with kids writing music and art shows that lead to scholarships at conservatories such as oberlin or SCAD. High school kids today are far from lazy. they take advantage of every opportunity they have and I'm impressed more and more with the level of brilliance undergrads entering my college have each year.
Needless to say, eventhough this had drifted from the original conversation, the state of education in America is, well... Stunning.
I disagree with the claims that education in America is poor. Or worse than it was before. I teach in a college in science and math and I also work at a very large enterprise computer company. I simply can't believe the level of brilliance that college students have coming out of high school today. That is stunning to me. Many have now completed differential equations while in high school. I was lucky to have had access to calculus at a local junior college my senior year of high school in 1989 and nearly every student at my kids public high school finished calc 1 their junior or senior year. Their command of English literature surpasses anything I had 30 years ago. Their capabilities in coding are radically brilliant beyond any capacity. At my employment we pay a large sum to a major Texas university just for access to the students graduating in computer engineering to beg them with salaries over 150k starting and they are wooed with apple, google, Microsoft and more. My kids high school offers 7 languages including Spanish, German, Latin, Chinese, Arabic and Russian. I think it is a broad brush platitude people use to bemoan something that isn't quite as widespread as it may seem. In fact I think it's a frustration that the education system has become so good for these kids. They're able to amass so many concepts and information so much easier than I ever had the chance to approach. I also know that our local high school and IsD is one of multiple in DFW with that level of education and parental support and these are mega 6A level schools. We have major orchestras and bands with kids writing music and art shows that lead to scholarships at conservatories such as oberlin or SCAD. High school kids today are far from lazy. they take advantage of every opportunity they have and I'm impressed more and more with the level of brilliance undergrads entering my college have each year.
You are only seeing a select subset. The majority of students are doing far worse than previous decades. A recent freshman at UCONN is sueing the Hartford CT school sydtem because this high school honor student is functionaly illiterate.
You are only seeing a select subset. The majority of students are doing far worse than previous decades. A recent freshman at UCONN is sueing the Hartford CT school sydtem because this high school honor student is functionaly illiterate.
I think that the one single kid suing as an honor student because he is functionally illiterate is a selected subset. What I'm seeing across Texas are tens of thousands of brilliant kids all trained well in classical thinking, amazing breadth and depth of knowledge, often having been part of research projects. My wife and I buy tickets to multiple school district high school musical programs because the talent is at a level that approaches broadway. I judge science fairs where the high school research is phenomenal and I know for a fact having been part of the hiring procrsss for a mega bank and then a mega computer company both at large enter rose that these kids graduate from college with high paying jobs. Our early in career kids are amazing as recent college graduates. And they exist by the tens of thousands. Not the single ones. They're all smart. In a meeting last week we were going over a white board with hundreds of post it notes on it detailing different feature changes that were categorized by topics. One person my age was writing them down and a young lady said "why would you write those down?" Then she literally pulled an app, wrote some python code and the app captured each one from images and sorted them leveraging an AI sub routine. What I've learned is that they're so smart they don't need people like me anymore. That doesn't scare me, it makes me happy. I'm old, my knowledge is outdated compared to theirs. Yes I have some relationship wisdom and saavy but I'm a relic. I think that people look for the one off in school and apply it broadly. And I think that's out of fear. What I have learned is that they're are brilliant, don't need their elders and are ready to take control of things. They are entrepreneurial, build things and work hard. These ISD's are dynamic, powerful and are building brilliant hard working young people. And I'm not a shill for education although I did come up through public school and my kids went to it. My kids had full rides to college both public and private and most of their friends did as well and it was because of the school and the AP classes and the work. Literate wasn't a factor as they all had AP English, AP literature and AP composition with passing college credit. I'm seeing more and more every year this generating ready to take the jobs and build new things. What I think frustrates people is that they dislike hierarchy, they prefer to cut through menial tasks with tools and they don't expect to do busy work. That frustrates some people but it doesn't frustrate me.
Re.: ".... they prefer to cut through menial tasks with tools and they don't expect to do busy work. That frustrates some people but it doesn't frustrate me."
It's certainly a subset, and I got the info from a yocal teacher, so it's also second/third hand. The teacher, who fwiw, is no slouch, teaches a woodworking/shops class. A couple of things he finds frustrating are that he has to limit his instruction to one very short/simple task at a time ... no "do this and then ...... ."
He also gave an example of "cutting through" that he finds somewhat frustrating ... apparently it's commonplace for students who need only a part of a larger wooden piece/board to cut what they need from the middle of the piece/board rather than from the margins of the piece.
He mentioned how other teachers have told him that in talking to students [not the upper echelon ones], their words generally come to a "blank wall" ... kinda like it doesn't register with the student that they're being spoken to. [Reminded me of reading "An Empty Spoon" 60 years ago.]
As for the number of students with 504s/IEPs/?? I think that from a medical standpoint it's expected that about 20% of people will receive diagnoses of ADD, autism, FASD, dyslexia, ADHD, etc., etc. My logic (?) says that that should translate into a similar proportion of students. With some very cursory looking, I came across this: reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments...rdt=39835 One of the comments that stood out [for me] is: "It isn't the sped kids that are the problem for me, it is the literal criminals. Once they mention being on probation I just cringe inside. They make me January tired in September."
It made me comment to my wife, " ... sounds like it's good to be retired.".... and she agreed!! "January tired in September" is a new one for us," but I like it.
Needless to say, eventhough this had drifted from the original conversation, the state of education in America is, well... Stunning.
I disagree with the claims that education in America is poor. Or worse than it was before. I teach in a college in science and math and I also work at a very large enterprise computer company. I simply can't believe the level of brilliance that college students have coming out of high school today. That is stunning to me. Many have now completed differential equations while in high school. I was lucky to have had access to calculus at a local junior college my senior year of high school in 1989 and nearly every student at my kids public high school finished calc 1 their junior or senior year. Their command of English literature surpasses anything I had 30 years ago. Their capabilities in coding are radically brilliant beyond any capacity. At my employment we pay a large sum to a major Texas university just for access to the students graduating in computer engineering to beg them with salaries over 150k starting and they are wooed with apple, google, Microsoft and more. My kids high school offers 7 languages including Spanish, German, Latin, Chinese, Arabic and Russian. I think it is a broad brush platitude people use to bemoan something that isn't quite as widespread as it may seem. In fact I think it's a frustration that the education system has become so good for these kids. They're able to amass so many concepts and information so much easier than I ever had the chance to approach. I also know that our local high school and IsD is one of multiple in DFW with that level of education and parental support and these are mega 6A level schools. We have major orchestras and bands with kids writing music and art shows that lead to scholarships at conservatories such as oberlin or SCAD. High school kids today are far from lazy. they take advantage of every opportunity they have and I'm impressed more and more with the level of brilliance undergrads entering my college have each year.
You are only seeing a select subset. The majority of students are doing far worse than previous decades. A recent freshman at UCONN is sueing the Hartford CT school sydtem because this high school honor student is functionaly illiterate.
There are a lot of reasons for the decline, but I really wish teachers would start accepting SOME of the blame.
I see it mentions a growing gap between the high- and low performers.
Fwiw, I think I could get more if the comparisons were presented as rolling averages rather than picking specific dates, but "they" don't come around asking for my advice on how to write reports ..... ditto for newscasts.
Edit: Szbassoon, does your wish for "teachers" to accept SOME of the blame [credit??] encompass some teachers? ... all teachers? I expect that the effectiveness (?) of teachers spans a range similar to any other profession/occupation.
I love to practice hitting strings with the same force, loudness . . . I love my weekly lessons and love to play “Molly / Polly put the kettle on”. . . I don’t understand how to hear chord changes.
A few thoughts on these:
- As to same force, loudness -- Expressiveness in music (something else I think you've said you don't hear or get) comes from variation: in attack, volume, tone (which can be varied based on where the strings are hit), and even timing. When playing solo, one is free to play with the expressiveness of loose timing (tempo rubato). I do this in my banjo arrangements of Broadway show tunes. When I play with others, I have to stick to straight time and they lose something.
Sameness in force and loudness contributes to monotone. I get that "expressiveness" is subjective. But variety in force, volume and tone are objective, discernible and measurable. In clawhammer, as in three-finger, we try to give the filler/in-between/accompaniment notes different force and volume than the melody notes, which we try to emphasize.
- Not hearing chord changes -- Before writing this, I listened to half a dozen or more Hangout members' videos of Polly Put the Kettle On so I could hear the tune and hear how clawhammer players approach it (since I'm a three-finger player and know next to nothing about clawhammer). I heard and saw something I expected: The clawhammer players rarely played (or fretted) what a three-finger player would call chords. When they fretted any notes it was almost always only one at a time. I never saw more than two notes fretted at once. Three-finger players form lots of two- and three-finger chords. Not counting the fifth string, our two-finger chords can involve three strings providing chord notes.
The melodies in clawhammer, such as they are, flow through the chords, which are more implied than actually sounded. (Some three-finger tunes do this as well. Cripple Creek and Cumberland Gap come to mind. There are more.) Since clawhammer style in general doesn't emphasize chords (at least to my hearing), and the open strings being played against some of the fretted notes don't necessarily create the actual or called-for chord at every moment, it takes a more developed ear to hear chord changes in solo clawhammer playing. Guitar accompaniment or backing track would make the changes a lot easier to hear.
Depending on tuning, banjo typically has no note lower than a guitar's fourth string D or fifth string at third fret C. Bass notes from guitar open sixth to open fourth typically provide the root of chords and make changes easy to hear.
So if you're never playing with any accompaniment, that's a big reason you're having trouble hearing chord changes. To learn to hear chord changes, you need to listen to music where the chords (and preferably also bass) are being played.
Hilary Hawke in this instructional video plays three-finger chords in Liza Jane. So I didn't want to say that clawhammer players never make full chords. Just that I didn't see any in the videos I watched of Polly Put the Kettle On. I still get the impression clawhammer doesn't use chords as extensively as three-finger does.
A good video on six tunes that beginning clawhammer players should know.
Needless to say, eventhough this had drifted from the original conversation, the state of education in America is, well... Stunning.
I disagree with the claims that education in America is poor. Or worse than it was before. I teach in a college in science and math and I also work at a very large enterprise computer company. I simply can't believe the level of brilliance that college students have coming out of high school today. That is stunning to me. Many have now completed differential equations while in high school. I was lucky to have had access to calculus at a local junior college my senior year of high school in 1989 and nearly every student at my kids public high school finished calc 1 their junior or senior year. Their command of English literature surpasses anything I had 30 years ago. Their capabilities in coding are radically brilliant beyond any capacity. At my employment we pay a large sum to a major Texas university just for access to the students graduating in computer engineering to beg them with salaries over 150k starting and they are wooed with apple, google, Microsoft and more. My kids high school offers 7 languages including Spanish, German, Latin, Chinese, Arabic and Russian. I think it is a broad brush platitude people use to bemoan something that isn't quite as widespread as it may seem. In fact I think it's a frustration that the education system has become so good for these kids. They're able to amass so many concepts and information so much easier than I ever had the chance to approach. I also know that our local high school and IsD is one of multiple in DFW with that level of education and parental support and these are mega 6A level schools. We have major orchestras and bands with kids writing music and art shows that lead to scholarships at conservatories such as oberlin or SCAD. High school kids today are far from lazy. they take advantage of every opportunity they have and I'm impressed more and more with the level of brilliance undergrads entering my college have each year.
You are only seeing a select subset. The majority of students are doing far worse than previous decades. A recent freshman at UCONN is sueing the Hartford CT school sydtem because this high school honor student is functionaly illiterate.
There are a lot of reasons for the decline, but I really wish teachers would start accepting SOME of the blame.
If you ask them, they're never the problem...
In the 80's I worked one summer doing research with a very smart woman that was also a immaculate dresser. She could wear white in the field all day and still be immaculate. This person wanted to be a science teacher and had already done her studet teaher portion of her training. Of course she still dressed very sharply. One day she was pulled aside and told teachers dont dress that way, they need to dress dowdy as it makes appear that they are very under paid.
You are only seeing a select subset. The majority of students are doing far worse than previous decades. A recent freshman at UCONN is sueing the Hartford CT school sydtem because this high school honor student is functionaly illiterate.
I think that the one single kid suing as an honor student because he is functionally illiterate is a selected subset. What I'm seeing across Texas are tens of thousands of brilliant kids all trained well in classical thinking, amazing breadth and depth of knowledge, often having been part of research projects. My wife and I buy tickets to multiple school district high school musical programs because the talent is at a level that approaches broadway. I judge science fairs where the high school research is phenomenal and I know for a fact having been part of the hiring procrsss for a mega bank and then a mega computer company both at large enter rose that these kids graduate from college with high paying jobs. Our early in career kids are amazing as recent college graduates. And they exist by the tens of thousands. Not the single ones. They're all smart. In a meeting last week we were going over a white board with hundreds of post it notes on it detailing different feature changes that were categorized by topics. One person my age was writing them down and a young lady said "why would you write those down?" Then she literally pulled an app, wrote some python code and the app captured each one from images and sorted them leveraging an AI sub routine. What I've learned is that they're so smart they don't need people like me anymore. That doesn't scare me, it makes me happy. I'm old, my knowledge is outdated compared to theirs. Yes I have some relationship wisdom and saavy but I'm a relic. I think that people look for the one off in school and apply it broadly. And I think that's out of fear. What I have learned is that they're are brilliant, don't need their elders and are ready to take control of things. They are entrepreneurial, build things and work hard. These ISD's are dynamic, powerful and are building brilliant hard working young people. And I'm not a shill for education although I did come up through public school and my kids went to it. My kids had full rides to college both public and private and most of their friends did as well and it was because of the school and the AP classes and the work. Literate wasn't a factor as they all had AP English, AP literature and AP composition with passing college credit. I'm seeing more and more every year this generating ready to take the jobs and build new things. What I think frustrates people is that they dislike hierarchy, they prefer to cut through menial tasks with tools and they don't expect to do busy work. That frustrates some people but it doesn't frustrate me.
Your kids are also a small subset. Studies show many are very poorly educated.
Hilary Hawke in this instructional video plays three-finger chords in Liza Jane. So I didn't want to say that clawhammer players never make full chords. Just that I didn't see any in the videos I watched of Polly Put the Kettle On. I still get the impression clawhammer doesn't use chords as extensively as three-finger does.
A good video on six tunes that beginning clawhammer players should know.
I did not run into Hilary at any jams during my three years in Brooklyn, though she did play with some of the same people I played with. Just managed to never been in the same place. The one time I saw her band, she wasn't there.
She's very versatile, playing both three-finger and clawhammer. She was the fill-in banjo player for Steve Martin's Broadway bluegrass musical "Bright Star" on nights when Bennett Sullivan had off or couldn't do it.
I can see from the video that she's probably a good teacher. I like that her beginner versions of these 6 tunes all sound pretty good. I'd be happy to be able to do those. I know absolutely no clawhammer. Maybe I should give it a try. I'm working on a project that would sound more authentic in clawhammer.
I just received the book. Report to follow.
