Noah Cline - Posted - 10/10/2024:  22:31:35

For this week’s tune, I have chosen the modal setting of Polly Put the Kettle On from Marcus Martin. I checked back through the TOTW list and revisited the D tune “Molly/Polly,” which had been covered, and while the modal tune of similar name was mentioned in that discussion, that setting had not been presented before. 

I believe my first time hearing it was by way of Christian Wig’s “Chadwell’s Station” CD, sourcing Tommy Jarrell and Marcus Martin, who had learned it from J.D. Harris. I’ll include a link to where you can hear a clip of this track, which includes some background info Chris included in the liner notes: Polly Put the Kettle On

Marcus Martin: slippery-hill.com/content/poll...-kettle-0

Digging around on YouTube early on after first hearing this recording (around 10 years ago) resulted in only a few videos at the time including those by Lukas Pool and Yigal Zan, however, since then there have been a few more uploaded. It seems the modal version always goes by “Polly”.

Eden and Lukas Pool: youtu.be/6_MpKEu8pB8?si=AOWfbkymxibky90o

Clare Milliner and Walt Koken (both on fiddle): youtu.be/v3umeTzifNw?si=Fm-rM0eFaG_mApYs

Byard Ray (from the video description, another fiddler who learned it from Harris): youtu.be/ZCK718nOz8E?si=fovDHMt8Voe9r10T

Yigal Zan: youtu.be/fczRPeLPgd4?si=Euye865x6wXQcH0t

2024 Clifftop Jam: youtu.be/hcflLWHiAbk?si=vqfTUEfVM8dnp-M2

Steve Blake (fiddle): youtu.be/y9QY_EN1DQ0?si=Vm_K96OMG0TV1f4X

I too have recorded it, recently on five-string banjo, practicing a bit of scordatura, starting with G modal tuning and dropping the bass to Bb (gBbGCD), mimicking the fiddle with being able to catch that bottom note, preferring to play on lower and open strings rather than up the neck (though in my example I did a quick up-the-neck pass for variation’s sake the second time through), and previously as a duet on my fiddle and a low-bass six-string banjo build I had completed at the time, taking advantage of the tuning possibilities provided the additional bass string (tuned gBbDGCD): 

Solo banjo: youtu.be/yTADzsaVg2M?si=D12fy2mF6uuhmmIT

Fiddle/low-bass six-string banjo: youtu.be/8DHD_2YXcjc?si=1C76E23HdkVv5dx-

From Chris’ liner notes, he mentions having asked Dan Gellert, who also recorded it on “Waitin’ on the Break of Day,” as to what key this tune is in, to which his response: ‘“The question ‘What key is it in?’ doesn’t always have a simple answer…In this tune the E is always natural, so it might better be called G dorian-mode, but then there’s that harmonic-minor F# in there, the B-almost-natural, and assorted other microtones, so it’s not really in a mode. Old-time music doesn’t fit easily into the categories of European academic musicology. The relative minor of Bb major is G minor, and the tune ends on the G, so that’s what I called it. No difference,  really.”’

Harris and Martin said it’s in Bb, but to me, the A part is only partially in Bb, but resolves back to G modal at the end each time through. The B pretty well stays in G modal. 

My take is how I interpreted the tune while learning it, though I stick with a full modal sound without dipping into a major sound (except for the Bb major resolve in the A part), resolving back to G modal instead of G major as some of the examples above do. It’s up to each person’s interpretation; that’s the beauty of Old Time Music. 

BobTheGambler - Posted - 10/11/2024:  05:48:20

Some of the other Western NC fiddlers played this one, my favorites being Osey Helton, Manco Sneed, and J Laurel Johnson.

carlb - Posted - 10/11/2024:  06:22:01

I uploaded a combined Manco Sneed/Marcus Martin version to FHO, as I thought they were closely related in one part.

fiddlehangout.com/song/9689

Here are my notes:

Polly Put the Kettle On – This 5- part version is derived from the fiddling of Manco Sneed (1885-1974) (Field Recorders’ Collective, FRC 505, Track 11 and other recordings of Sneed);

fieldrecorder.org/manco-sneed/

fieldrecorder.org/manco-sneed-...-indians/

and Marcus Martin (1881-1974) (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Southern Folklife Collection and North Carolina Folklife, SFC CD-100;

hellers.org/martin/family.htm

mustrad.org.uk/reviews/m_martin.htm

Manco Sneed’s version comes from his father while Marcus Martin comes from James Dedrick Harris. Both Sneed and Martin learned quite a few tunes from Harris and were from western North Carolina.

Edited by - carlb on 10/11/2024 06:45:27

Lobstertrician - Posted - 10/12/2024:  16:11:06

Thanks Noah, great tune and I like the tuning. In searching for other banjo tunes with the same tuning, I learned a fun fact: The string of letters gbbdgcd appear just twice in 50 billion internet pages on this page, and on your Youtube vid!

JanetB - Posted - 10/12/2024:  16:46:39

Thanks for an interesting exploration, Noah. The duets all sound rich.

Figuring out the key and mode is a challenge.  I agree that it's in Gm. The mode might be G aeolian, but I'm not able to vouch for that -- a chart helped me deduce that possibility.  I liked your tuning a lot to get all the notes, especially that bass note.  I attempted such a a tab, but ended up arranging for the cello banjo with a tuning that Anita Kermode calls a D variant (when its pitched on a regular banjo).  On my tab for cello banjo (tuned more in the range of a tenor banjo) it went down five steps, so the tuning is dBbDGBb.  I guess it would then be called a Bb variant, which matches up with the comment by Harris and Martin that it's in Bb.  Most of this figuring is "above my pay grade", as a friend likes to say.

[Zepp's site w/ Anita Kermode tunings in alphabetical order  f#DF#BD  D variant    Ray Andrews, Meadowlands, in Bm (Tab, Ken Perlman's in Clawhammer Style Banjo). Robb Goldstein, Bonaparte Crossing the Delaware (Tab, BNL, Oct 1986).]

Polly Put the Kettle On (Marcus Martin)

Polly Put the Kettle On (Marcus Martin)(CH) tab

Noah Cline - Posted - 10/15/2024:  18:49:12

quote:

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Originally posted by JanetB

Thanks for an interesting exploration, Noah. The duets all sound rich.

Figuring out the key and mode is a challenge.  I agree that it's in Gm. The mode might be G aeolian, but I'm not able to vouch for that -- a chart helped me deduce that possibility.  I liked your tuning a lot to get all the notes, especially that bass note.  I attempted such a a tab, but ended up arranging for the cello banjo with a tuning that Anita Kermode calls a D variant (when its pitched on a regular banjo).  On my tab for cello banjo (tuned more in the range of a tenor banjo) it went down five steps, so the tuning is dBbDGBb.  I guess it would then be called a Bb variant, which matches up with the comment by Harris and Martin that it's in Bb.  Most of this figuring is "above my pay grade", as a friend likes to say.

[Zepp's site w/ Anita Kermode tunings in alphabetical order  f#DF#BD  D variant    Ray Andrews, Meadowlands, in Bm (Tab, Ken Perlman's in Clawhammer Style Banjo). Robb Goldstein, Bonaparte Crossing the Delaware (Tab, BNL, Oct 1986).]

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The tuning I use does have a bit of a stretch for the 4-7 fret notes on the bass string, but I was trying to figure it out without jumping up an octave for some of the measures. The additional bass string on the 5+1 banjo I made has a bit more advantage without the stretching. I think honestly though the fiddle has the high advantage with fifths tuning, though it makes it a fun challenge to figure out on banjo. I like the tuning you chose for your recording/tab. I remember noodling with that one years ago along with open D, and had forgotten it. 

While I've not tried it yet, I had considered trying G tuning, capo 3, but I wonder if it would lose some of its modal color?

JanetB - Posted - 10/16/2024:  16:07:41

Since you're still trying to look for more tunings, Noah, I thought I'd try the one you suggested, but couldn't get it down low enough.  For fun I played with Marcus Martin and came up with this tuning, which actually seems to work --  fBbFBbD.   Anita Kermode has it written a bit differently, but here's her information on the tuning: fA#FA#D.  (Raised up a step, Anita calls this open C, one of Dave Macon and Frank Proffitt's favorite tunings.  So we can call it open Bb.) If I were to keep working on this latest arrangement, it could be eased and smoothed out a bit as far as not needing to get in so many of Marcus' fiddled notes, so this seems to have potential....

Edited by - JanetB on 10/16/2024 16:15:37

Polly Put the Kettle On (Marcus Martin)(fBbFBbD)

Polly Put the Kettle On (fBbFBbD) tab