nealsotn - Posted - 08/15/2024:  07:10:45

I've been trying on-and-off for several years to learn the basics of clawhammer banjo but have been totally unsuccessful so far. I've purchased a stack of home-study books, tried following multiple youtube tutorials, even subscribed to the popular online clawhammer instruction-services seen on the Banjo Hangout- but none of them work for me.

All of these seem well-produced and well-meaning, but suffer from what might be called a mid-stream personality-switch disorder. They are very good at initial introductions and teaching some of the basic elements that seem to make perfect sense at the time, but then suddenly switch to alien, alternate forms, rhythms, and unexplained techniques the moment a song is introduced. The played song does not resemble the previous exercises or tabs in any way. This leaves the student totally befuddled... There is nothing further to do except blink a few times, stare for awhile, then put the banjo down and walk away.

To present an analogy; If one wanted to learn a new language like Spanish, one would start by learning how certain letters like "J", "X" and "LL" have different sounds from English, and how "o" and "a" suffixes generally denote gender. You would then listen to individual spoken words, parroting them repeatedly until eventually you may begin to sound a little like the instructor. The real progress begins when you learn certain commonly-used phrases and how to put them together to form primitive sentences that must sound like baby-talk to a native speaker. This is the point where the clawhammer courses switch personality. Going back to the language analogy, this is where they've started you with Spanish, then suddenly switch to German with a bit of Swahili mixed-in to really muck things up. It becomes a case of "do what I do- not what I say", (i.e., now do something COMPLETELY different and upside-down from what you've been practicing all week [or month]) which just does not work for me.

I'm certain they are not doing this intentionally. I believe the instructors are honest and very, VERY good players, but have become so experienced and conditioned by years of excellent playing that they can no longer perceive the low-level hand and finger movements and coordination from the perspective of a clumsy 10-thumbed neophyte student, so they are unable to pass along their hard-learned knowledge. I can understand this. Although I consider myself at somewhere between beginner and intermediate "skill-level" (MUCH closer to beginner), there are many things I've learned to do by muscle-memory that I cannot easily explain, and simply thinking about them while playing really screws things up.

Put another way, if one wanted to learn Foggy Mountain Breakdown, it would be much better to study and repeatedly practice variations of "foggy mountain breakdown rolls" with their hammer-ons and pull-offs instead of just simple scales and arpeggios on one or two chords.

I have a notion that spending an afternoon in-person with an experienced clawhammer player might be enlightening, but although I live near Huntsville Alabama, I just don't see that ever happening as the traditional/folk music scene is not openly embraced down here.

So, are there any recently-hatched clawhammer players out there who have successfully learned how to play this traditional form by using online/printed/video courses or tutorials?

Dlye - Posted - 08/15/2024:  07:23:33

I have had great success with Tom Collins free You Tube Banjo Blitz series and with his Banjo Quest Patreon sight.

Barnacle Joe - Posted - 08/15/2024:  08:10:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by nealsotn

So, are there any recently-hatched clawhammer players out there who have successfully learned how to play this traditional form by using online/printed/video courses or tutorials?

---

Not recently, but yes, no 1-on-1 lessons of any kind.  Just books and YouTube, etc.  With a number of frustrating, hit-a-wall periods.

The first (and easiest to explain) thing that got me past one of those walls (and still pays dividends today) was spending a couple days doing nothing but scales and then regularly every 2-5 days (on average) after that.  Just the G-major scale to start with, and then scales-with-extras.  Such as G-diddy A-diddy B-diddy C-diddy.  Or G (drop thumb string 1+2 instead of diddy) A (drop thumb string 1+2 instead of diddy) B (drop thumb string 1+2 instead of diddy).  etc and so on, back and forth.  Saying the notes aloud as I played them.

Putting the songbook on the shelf for half a week or so and just trying to be the best in the world at playing scales was, hands down, the single best (and also the simplest) thing I ever did that got thru a wall and, as I mentioned, I can still tell is paying off years later.  So if you haven't tried that, I suggest that.

MRichaud - Posted - 08/15/2024:  08:26:21

Ron -
PM sent.

staceyz - Posted - 08/15/2024:  08:28:43

I would say forget about learning a song to start with, just work on the right hand getting the clawhammer pattern. I'm a guitar player who plays old finger style ragtime guitar, so I thought clawhammer would be easy. I already know the left hand stuff, but I just couldn't get the right hand, I eventually got it... but it took a few weeks!!!

A Drum On A Stick - Posted - 08/15/2024:  08:45:57

I'm currently ~4 years into my self-taught clawhammer journey.



I think your language-learning analogy is good. In my opinion, immersion in the language is more helpful than learning about grammar and spelling. So I didn't focus much on courses or technique lessons beyond the initial open string bum-ditty stage.



What helped me the most was finding simple tunes that only involve beginner techniques and then putting the video on repeat until I could hum every note. Then I'd get the banjo, slow down the video, and begin working at it piece by piece until I can play it poorly on the banjo. Tab is okay during this process, but don't let it be a crutch.



From that point the melody is internalized and the mechanics have been figured out, so I can work on the tune without the reference material, trying to make my played version sound like the idealized version in my head. Mostly this means an even tempo, consideration of dynamics, and of course accurate notes.



Then once I get happy with it, I go back to the original video and compare notes.



It's not a quick process, especially at first. But each time I learned a new tune, I was able to do it quicker, or learn something a little more complex.

Edited by - A Drum On A Stick on 08/15/2024 08:47:01

KCJones - Posted - 08/15/2024:  09:33:25

Both in learning and in teaching, I've found that it is difficult to convey the rhythm of clawhammer through text or tablature. Videos can help but area also difficult.



One thing I will say: Begin with double-thumbing (stroke), rather than a "bum-ditty" (aka basic strum). Index-thumb-index-thumb should be your fundamental right hand movement upon which all other right-hand techniques are based. Unfortunately, the vast majority of instructors do it backwards and teach double-thumbing as an "advanced technique" later in lessons. This is not correct and harms the neophyte banjoist.

1. Index (or middle) on first string, then thumb on 5th, then index on 1st string, then thumb on 5th. Over and over and over again. I-T-I-T, index-thumb-index-thumb.


2. Then you modify this basic movement by replacing the first "thumb" with a "rest". So now you have I-R-I-T, index-rest-index-thumb. (Note that the actual movement of your arm does not change and you still move the arm up during the rest to reset your hand for the next downstroke).


3. Once you have that rhythm down, then you turn that second "index" stroke into a "brush", strumming the top 2-3 strings instead of just hitting one string. So now you have I-R-B-T, index-rest-brush-thumb.


4. Congrats, you're now doing what most people call the "bum ditty". (which, ironically, is generally assumed to be the fundamental technique although it's arguably the most complicated of all clawhammer right-hand techniques.)

Over the last decade at various festivals, I have taught dozens of 100% brand new "never held a banjo" students how to play clawhammer with this method. At this point it is likely over 100 new players, which isn't much compared to older folks but it's not nothing. With this method, along with some basic partial chord shapes, I have brought people from literally never touching a banjo to being able to play basic accompaniment with fiddlers and singers within about an hour. It can be done and it is quite simple if you use the correct approach.

Feel free to PM me and we can video chat and go over it if you'd like. I have never charged a student for any lesson and never will. I'm not even a real teacher. I just want more people to play banjo. 

Dan Gellert - Posted - 08/15/2024:  09:42:39

To continue the language analogy, IMO there's nothing so essential to achieving fluency as in-person conversation with a native speaker. Better yet, conversing with as many different native speakers as you can find.
A few private lessons (maybe one or two with each of several teachers) will be a big help in figuring what works and what doesn't for your individual learning style and musical taste.

jack_beuthin - Posted - 08/15/2024:  09:48:15

This may or may not help, but it is a different approach than many instructional series. I have a free 8-lesson series on YouTube in which I start with a “bare bones” version of Cripple Creek, then lesson by lesson, add in embellishments including slides, hammers, pulls, and drop thumb. The concept is to start with the simplest possible version of a tune, using just a bum ditty pattern played over basic melody notes, and then incrementally build it up with various embellishments. The intent is to help you see the essence versus the "ornaments" of a tune played in clawhammer style, and to help free you from slavishly learning someone else’s fully rendered version note for note. Regardless, best wishes on making the progress you are aiming for.

youtube.com/playlist?list=PL00...aumdiNAGs

lawnboss - Posted - 08/15/2024:  10:11:01

I was self-taught using only on-line materials and got quite far along before I ever sat down with someone for expert feedback. I think the key is to master the very basic elements and then try learning songs (because, let's be honest, there is nothing more motivating than being able to play something that is recognizable as a song) that are truly level-appropriate. For me, that came in the form of the Brainjo materials by Josh Turknett. The songs come with videos but also tabs that are leveled (1, 2, or 3). At the beginning, I only attempted level 1 tabs, which required absolutely no advanced techniques (no drop thumbs, double thumbs, hammer ons, pull offs, slides... none of that). Obviously, I couldn't play them well immediately, but I could understand how to approach them based on the introductory skills I had learned. Eventually, I could pick the level 1 tabs up faster and attempt level 2 tabs. And so on. The other benefit I found to Brainjo was that some of the more advanced skills were linked to specific songs, so rather than learning how to do something in a vacuum, I was learning it in the context of a song that applied it. I believe he still has a free trial, so I would check it out and see if it works for you!

davidppp - Posted - 08/15/2024:  10:27:51

I'm with Dan Gellert on this one.

I had developed my own version of clawhammer after decades of playing. But I made a huge advance from a single encounter. Actually it was a master class, with about a dozen students, and we learned one tune. After a while, as we played through the song again and again, the teacher, the inimitable Mary Z. Cox, went around to each student and coached and prodded as she saw appropriate for where the student was in their playing. For me, she stood behind, reached around, and moved my right hand and arm to get them going my productively. I think I've played much better ever since.

gbisignani - Posted - 08/15/2024:  11:15:14

Ron,
I think you worded your "issue" exactly like my brain thinks but I don't seem to have the ability to say things as well as you !

I learned the basic bum ditty from Youtube and never found another source of learning that I thought was worth my time.

To me there's nothing more frustrating than trying to start a new learning source only to here "First put your banjo in double C tuning". I've been playing "folk" banjo for some 40 years and
never played anything except G tuning. While double C and sawmill tuning sound really good I don't think they are for the beginner. I started taking lessons a couple of years back and at the end of the first lesson my teacher told me for homework to put my banjo in sawmill tuning and learn Shady Grove for the next lesson !! I hadn't heard of either previously.

Or how about watching and learning how to drop thumb. I learned the basic right hand but never really found how to add it to a song. So now I can play drop thumb on a chord but can't play it in a song !

I know that part of it is me. I find that at my age (73) I'm playing less and don't really practice. I just play songs the way I hear them.

danh - Posted - 08/15/2024:  12:26:22

I really like Cathy Fink's clawhammer course on TrueFire. She has exercises that match the songs. truefire.com/banjo-lessons/cla...nner/c672 . You can click "Play" to see some samples lessons.

As for clawhammer lessons in Huntsville, banjohangout.org/teacher/PhillGibson says he teaches primarily Scruggs-style, but also teaches clawhammer.

wrench13 - Posted - 08/15/2024:  12:40:19

Why not take up fiddle and not only be TOTALLY frustrated, but lose all yer friends too!

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 08/15/2024:  13:47:31

If you are fluent in some basic techniques- (double-thumb, bum-ditty, hammer-on, pull-off, slide) you should be home free.

The important thing is knowing how basic CH style is constructed, and how to apply the basic techniques to a simple melody.

For example, can you play a bare bones nothing but melody  "Mary had a Little Lamb"?  All quarter notes.

Tune to double-C and start on the first string, second fret note.  Now (and I'm ducking as I say this) insert a 5th string note after every second-beat note

and you have dropped the melody into the bum-ditty pattern.

I don't know if applying the basic techniques so as to come up with a CH arrangement is what you are asking or not.

A lot of this is conceptual, and thinking about it in a certain way is what causes the light to come on.

My Dad used to describe it as; "playing your own accompaniment".  Really basic CH is somewhat like Carter Family-style guitar in that respect.

I took the liberty of looking at your BHO home page and noted that your list of favorite musicians didn't include any CH/OT banjo-players.  You've got to saturate your brain with this music- listen, listen, listen.  Spend twice the amount of time listening as you do practicing.

Best of luck.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 08/15/2024:  13:55:50

BTW; The all quarter note melody only version of Mary Had a Little Lamb should be played exclusively with middle/index finger downstrokes.  The 5th string notes should obviously be with the thumb.

banjered - Posted - 08/15/2024:  15:26:30

1) Bum – pause - dit-ty on any string, no left hand needed
2) G scale with bum ditty, no left hand needed
3) Insert D7 and C chord with bum ditty and not lose rhythm
4) Simplest song – Skip to My Lou, Mary Had a Little Lamb, whatever
5) Cripple Creek with its hammer-ons, pull-offs, and slides
6) Other simple songs you are drawn to
7) Shady Grove to learn modal tuning scale/songs
8) Drop Thumbing – 1-2-1-5
9) Drop Thumb – 2-3-2-5, 3-4-3-5
10) Banjo Player's Songbook by Tim Jumper
banjered

trapdoor2 - Posted - 08/15/2024:  19:47:08

I taught beginning banjo at a coffee-shop in HSV for years, never had anyone want to learn CH.  I retired to SC in 2020...

Both "The Fret Shop" and "Harmony Sound" would be good places to look for a local teacher.

You might contact NOTSBA (Nashville Old Time String Band Assoc.) and set up a one-on-one with a teacher up there. Their website is a great resource. Their annual March jam, "Breaking Up Winter" is excellent, I rarely miss it.

I studied music teachers for years...and I have a very large collection of instruction books. It is very difficult to find a good personal match for an instructor...and I only learned how to do something from about 10% of the books.

Find somebody to sit in front of you and play slowly. Stop and ask questions, have them demo one measure or one note at a time.

I always admired Dan Knowles' beginning CH banjo group sessions. He would get 30 people playing in just a few minutes...and so much fun!

carlb - Posted - 08/16/2024:  05:09:31

For me, one of the basics is that the thumb is played as the hand is moving up; down with the fore or middle finger and up sounds the thumb strike.

jsinjin - Posted - 08/20/2024:  18:42:50

I have found that brainjo works well to learn songs. I’ve also found that I don’t enjoy old time clawhammer songs very much at all. But I like the sound the instrument makes and I love the practice. I love the practice of over and over complex patterns and changes in chords and moving through scales.

What I find works best is 1000 repeats of the same three measures regardless of whether it’s a song or a complex pattern. It sux at first then you get decent then stumble a lot when you get fatigued then it sort of clicks. Then the next day your fingers just play it and you’re shocked. I find it’s like learning to sketch or learning to throw darts or perform an Olympic lift. As Josh at brainjo says, it’s about chunks of information.

Mike Buchman - Posted - 08/21/2024:  21:34:16

I'm coming back to CH after not playing a banjo for 10 years or so. I was only a beginner then, and I've been working with and getting a lot out of Brad Kolodner's Clawhammer Corner lessons on TrueFire, which are modestly priced: truefire.com/channels/clawhamm...er/l29384

writerrad - Posted - 08/29/2024:  14:42:07

Find a teacher is you can.   I started playing clawhammer when I was about 52 (I am 77 now) and had known people who were outstanding clawhammer players since I was a teenager, and played guitar behind some good ones.   I thought I knew it all when I decided to play the banjo.   I was just wasting time until a friend took me to his house sat me down and pointed out I was not doing right. 

  Down picking is so different from other forms of string instrument playing because it is based on an African  approaches to playing a string instrument.  I still constantly find myself fighting things I did since I was 12 on a guitar or finger picking the banjo.  Get someone who can sit with you and watch what you are doing and correct it.  I needed that big time.

You can find teachers who are not in your local area on zoom.   Go find where people play old time music or even bluegrass.  Banjoists are very helpful in helping to recruit new members of the tribe. 

The most important thing is the learn the basic strokes.  I have been playing banjo for 25 years, and teach at Fiddle Hell, and have played at the festivals, but I still gobble up any introductory clawhammer video I can find on the internet.  Practice the basic strokes, the bump diddy, the drop thumb, the double thumb.

Work on those strokes for a half hour every night, not trying to play any tune, but working your way into the way they are done before you try to do anything.   That is the first thing that got me into playing properly.  A great player took me over his house and gave me a bob carlin video tape (back in the day) and say practice the basic strokes here every night and come back and we will work on tunes.  Since then as a historian of old time music I found this was the way many Southern banjoists learned to play,  

The famous African American Fiddler Joe Thompson of Mebane NC told me he had a brother who played banjo who his father a fiddler  and banjoist told to go on the back porch, and work on the strokes, not even chording the banjo, every night, and it took him a month to get the strokes.  You have to do something like that with direction!

Find a teacher, practice the basic strokes.  I cannot believe where you live there are not clawhammer pickers around.  They will help you,

Remember, it is not the inspiration, but the perspiration that will get you there.

Edited by - writerrad on 08/29/2024 14:50:24

writerrad - Posted - 08/29/2024:  14:54:46

His youtube channel is a real gift, and a real practical approach to things,  He does not bs you that you can learn to play clawhammer well without working, but provides practical scientifically based, approaches to doing the work.    On the other hand,   a new player really needs to have a teacher or at least someone who sees him actually play to help him.   But it takes a lot of work.

The basic strokes are the key to it all.   A person can go on the internet and try all sorts of fancy stuff, but as Bob Carlin told me when I was starting out, without the basic strokes you dont have nothing,

writerrad - Posted - 08/29/2024:  14:58:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by staceyz

I would say forget about learning a song to start with, just work on the right hand getting the clawhammer pattern. I'm a guitar player who plays old finger style ragtime guitar, so I thought clawhammer would be easy. I already know the left hand stuff, but I just couldn't get the right hand, I eventually got it... but it took a few weeks!!!

---

I have been playing guitar since 1960 and didnt start on the banjo until around 1999,  I have played mostly banjo, but I am still working away from guitar stuff.  To play clawhammer you have to learn the basic strokes practices them every night until they are basic to you and dont worry about anything else until you got them.  A teacher or another clawhammer player who will look at what you do will help,

This guy sounds like he did what I did.  I had played a lot of guitar since the 60s and thought I knew old time and clawhammer, and got the videos etc, but what I figured out was a mess until someone sat me down and said find a teacher, work on those strokes without even trying to play a tune.

ericmacknight - Posted - 08/29/2024:  17:09:29

R.D. Lunceford : "Spend twice the amount of time listening as you do practicing."

100%!!!!

badcat23661 - Posted - 08/30/2024:  03:34:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by nealsotn

I've been trying on-and-off for several years to learn the basics of clawhammer banjo but have been totally unsuccessful so far. I've purchased a stack of home-study books, tried following multiple youtube tutorials, even subscribed to the popular online clawhammer instruction-services seen on the Banjo Hangout- but none of them work for me.



All of these seem well-produced and well-meaning, but suffer from what might be called a mid-stream personality-switch disorder. They are very good at initial introductions and teaching some of the basic elements that seem to make perfect sense at the time, but then suddenly switch to alien, alternate forms, rhythms, and unexplained techniques the moment a song is introduced. The played song does not resemble the previous exercises or tabs in any way. This leaves the student totally befuddled... There is nothing further to do except blink a few times, stare for awhile, then put the banjo down and walk away.



To present an analogy; If one wanted to learn a new language like Spanish, one would start by learning how certain letters like "J", "X" and "LL" have different sounds from English, and how "o" and "a" suffixes generally denote gender. You would then listen to individual spoken words, parroting them repeatedly until eventually you may begin to sound a little like the instructor. The real progress begins when you learn certain commonly-used phrases and how to put them together to form primitive sentences that must sound like baby-talk to a native speaker. This is the point where the clawhammer courses switch personality. Going back to the language analogy, this is where they've started you with Spanish, then suddenly switch to German with a bit of Swahili mixed-in to really muck things up. It becomes a case of "do what I do- not what I say", (i.e., now do something COMPLETELY different and upside-down from what you've been practicing all week [or month]) which just does not work for me.



I'm certain they are not doing this intentionally. I believe the instructors are honest and very, VERY good players, but have become so experienced and conditioned by years of excellent playing that they can no longer perceive the low-level hand and finger movements and coordination from the perspective of a clumsy 10-thumbed neophyte student, so they are unable to pass along their hard-learned knowledge. I can understand this. Although I consider myself at somewhere between beginner and intermediate "skill-level" (MUCH closer to beginner), there are many things I've learned to do by muscle-memory that I cannot easily explain, and simply thinking about them while playing really screws things up.



Put another way, if one wanted to learn Foggy Mountain Breakdown, it would be much better to study and repeatedly practice variations of "foggy mountain breakdown rolls" with their hammer-ons and pull-offs instead of just simple scales and arpeggios on one or two chords.



I have a notion that spending an afternoon in-person with an experienced clawhammer player might be enlightening, but although I live near Huntsville Alabama, I just don't see that ever happening as the traditional/folk music scene is not openly embraced down here.



So, are there any recently-hatched clawhammer players out there who have successfully learned how to play this traditional form by using online/printed/video courses or tutorials?

---

badcat23661 - Posted - 08/30/2024:  03:39:34

Without knowing about your previous instructors/tutorials, I would suggest Hilarie Buhrans on Patreon ( she also has you-tube tutorials) . I hope you find venues where you can play with others, old time jams, open band contra dances are great for improving. Most welcome people of all skill sets and it's a great learning experience that is very rewarding.

wesrichards - Posted - 08/30/2024:  04:40:55

There are a lot of answers here, most of them long and detailed. Here's what I did: first get that frailing motion down pat. You don't even need a banjo to do that. Practice the motion with your "picking" hand. Do it on your desk. Do it when you have nothing else to do. Do it while you're watching the news at 6:30. Do it over and over until you don't have to think how to do it anymore.

Next: start adding the drop thumb part. Do it over and over. It'll all come to you. Then add the banjo. Forget the left hand for the first while. Then add it in and it'll start to work on your actual banjo.

Pick up the banjo and practice until you have it down. Don't worry about songs. Just change chords now and then to keep the sound interesting. Start slow and gradually pick up speed. Eventually, you'll get it. Frailing is not a natural reaction, it requires training. The training is simple: Practice, practice.

TucsonBill - Posted - 08/30/2024:  08:36:38

I have been playing clawhammer about 5 years now, mostly learning from online sites. The best "quick answer" I can suggest is to start with very simple methods and tunes. While simple tunes such as Skip To My Lou and Old Susanna may not be what you really want to play, using basic techniques to play them will allow you at least a bit of success. You can then expand from there. I noticed that you are in Flintville, Tenn. I will be visiting family later in September just east of Monteagle. I will have a banjo with me, and would be happy to get together with you and see if I can provide some useful suggestions. I consider myself an advanced beginner, with several tunes I can play well enough that people recognize what I am playing. I am also a member of a small group of beginner/intermediate banjo players who meet weekly on Zoom to chat, support, give tips, and play a bit of music. If you would like to meet up please contact me. oxman17@outlook.com

BlueMountain - Posted - 08/30/2024:  11:27:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

Both in learning and in teaching, I've found that it is difficult to convey the rhythm of clawhammer through text or tablature. Videos can help but area also difficult.



One thing I will say: Begin with double-thumbing (stroke), rather than a "bum-ditty" (aka basic strum). Index-thumb-index-thumb should be your fundamental right hand movement upon which all other right-hand techniques are based. Unfortunately, the vast majority of instructors do it backwards and teach double-thumbing as an "advanced technique" later in lessons. This is not correct and harms the neophyte banjoist.

1. Index (or middle) on first string, then thumb on 5th, then index on 1st string, then thumb on 5th. Over and over and over again. I-T-I-T, index-thumb-index-thumb.


2. Then you modify this basic movement by replacing the first "thumb" with a "rest". So now you have I-R-I-T, index-rest-index-thumb. (Note that the actual movement of your arm does not change and you still move the arm up during the rest to reset your hand for the next downstroke).


3. Once you have that rhythm down, then you turn that second "index" stroke into a "brush", strumming the top 2-3 strings instead of just hitting one string. So now you have I-R-B-T, index-rest-brush-thumb.


4. Congrats, you're now doing what most people call the "bum ditty". (which, ironically, is generally assumed to be the fundamental technique although it's arguably the most complicated of all clawhammer right-hand techniques.)

Over the last decade at various festivals, I have taught dozens of 100% brand new "never held a banjo" students how to play clawhammer with this method. At this point it is likely over 100 new players, which isn't much compared to older folks but it's not nothing. With this method, along with some basic partial chord shapes, I have brought people from literally never touching a banjo to being able to play basic accompaniment with fiddlers and singers within about an hour. It can be done and it is quite simple if you use the correct approach.

Feel free to PM me and we can video chat and go over it if you'd like. I have never charged a student for any lesson and never will. I'm not even a real teacher. I just want more people to play banjo. 

---

Well said! I stumbled upon the same method on my own. It helps a lot to listen a lot to old clawhammer playing. A lot of those people rarely played where they'd touch the head with the strokes. That was just one of the techniques that could be used, but some people think it is required. I think what you describe works better perhaps played over the scoop. Its syncopated, almost like ragtime or Travis picking on guitar. It helps to just relax and play instead of insisting on always playing those downstrokes and thumb strokes.

Another suggestion is to put on a set of LaBella #17 nylon strings. That's what Hicks prefers to use. I think they give a clearer 5th string sound with the thumb.

jsinjin - Posted - 08/30/2024:  16:41:23

One thing I learned about the percussive stroke was that the angle of incidence, meaning the downstroke of the nail at the string is only half the equation, the other half is ensuring that the finger is traveling perpendicular to the neck. Imagine a line going across the neck at 90 degrees. The index or middle finger with your nail works best on the percussion stroke if each string is hit in the same plane. If there were a line drawn across the neck then you would hit the number 1,2,3,4 strings all along that line. There is a tendency when you are starting out to move your hand at an angle that is not 90 degrees. It makes a big deal to hitting strings 3 and 4 accurately.

Jake516 - Posted - 08/30/2024:  18:03:40

You missed a great opportunity to use the headline "Flailing at Frailing"

raymondjparker - Posted - 08/31/2024:  06:41:44

This discusion was timely & excellent , thanks all. Regarding repetition, does anyone know, recommend or have acces to a book or a short tab set on these often mentioned (in the responses) right hand "drills" to practice "1000 times" ? Ive gotten to what may be a "Level 2 " but I am stuck with a mediocre technique -- and I think it may be due to not paying attantion to the basics to perfection , relying on "tunes" to improve too often.
I took many months of lessons. I learned about 15+ tunes by heart , (No Tabs) but my play was a bit sloppy and instructor just added a new tune every week. Im thining to try Brainjo from square one ---as well as the more intense basic drills ...

Spudwheat - Posted - 09/01/2024:  20:23:47

I found this site to be excellent. This tutorial in particular is outstanding. I was amused when he said, “My father taught me how to play the banjo. I had to play bum-ditty-bum for one minute straight with no errors.” Check it out, it might help.

youtube.com/watch?v=6FbtT-UoAmI

jsinjin - Posted - 09/01/2024:  20:41:26

quote:

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Originally posted by raymondjparker

(in the responses) right hand "drills" to practice "1000 times" ? 

 

this is what I did to practice the: 1000 times:

I sort of took the design of this from a coach that had taught Olympic weightlifting.  Not because the work is similar but because practice actually is a universal activity and I found that this guy really explained practice.  First, understand that repeat practice to get good at something is inherently boring unless you convince yourself that the incremental attempts are bringing you joy.  I did that and oddly enough you start to want to practice.

i started with this sequence in open G without any fretting for two full weeks:

I used both index and middle finger for two different practices because I still have not committed to a choice.

i would hit the following with the percussive stroke of the claw and actively landing the thumb on the 5th:

1-1-5 x 200

2-2-5 x 200

3-3-5x 200

4-4-5 x 200

1-2-5 x 200

1-3-5 x 200

1-4-5 x 200

2-1-5 x 200

2-3-5 x 200

2-4-5 x 200

3-1-5 x 200

3-2-5 x 200

3-4-5 x 200

4-1-5 x200

4-2-5 X 200

4-3-5 x 200

i did this three times a day with a metronome 

every 2 days I would speed up the metronome by 10

notice this wasn't to teach me how to play fast but to stay in time

then I started with a percussive then sweep:

1-321-5 x 200

2-321-5 .x 200

3-321-5 x 200

4-321-5 x 200

1-432-5 x 200

2-432-5 x 200

3-432-5 x 200

4-432-5 x 200

again starting with slow speed and ramping up every two days

my Goal in this was consistency and accuracy.  I tried to vary the position on the next and over the head while keeping my hand moving perpendicular To the strings.

i then had some more complex exercises but the above tooK me about 8 weeks practicing it several times a day

Dale Diehl - Posted - 09/06/2024:  05:49:03

I've been dabbling with claw hammer and don't have it yet. This conversation has applications to three finger which I've been working at for about 30 years. In Earls book there are some rules about rolls and what you should never do. Then when you get into the book the first thing I saw was that he broke all of the rules and did things that mere mortals could not do. ie. Like never play the same string with the same finger in succession. So much for rules and real life.