Patrick1962 - Posted - 07/30/2024:  19:22:48

So, I would like to figure out what key I sing in and was thinking of taking a song I know well like "Im So Lonesome I Could cry" by Hank Williams. It has the chords E- A- B7, which is essentially 1-4-5, right? I cant sing great but Im not horrible either. But I know I cant sing it in the key that he is singing it in. So could I start trying it in the key of A...(A-D-E7)? and just go up from there until I find the right key? Or is there an easier way to figure out what key I sing in?

chuckv97 - Posted - 07/30/2024:  19:28:40

Yep, that’s what I do,, try different keys until you find one that’s comfortable for your voice,, so that you can sing the lowest and highest notes without straining.

Keith Billik - Posted - 07/30/2024:  19:58:32

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick1962

So, I would like to figure out what key I sing in and was thinking of taking a song I know well like "Im So Lonesome I Could cry" by Hank Williams. It has the chords E- A- B7, which is essentially 1-4-5, right? I cant sing great but Im not horrible either. But I know I cant sing it in the key that he is singing it in. So could I start trying it in the key of A...(A-D-E7)? and just go up from there until I find the right key? Or is there an easier way to figure out what key I sing in?

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First step would be to know your general vocal range (ie, figure out what are the lowest and highest notes that you can comfortably sing).

Then, for any given song, find the lowest and highest notes required of the melody. Are they within your vocal range that you just determined, or close enough that you're willing to push it a bit? If not, figure out which direction and by how much you need to transpose it to get it into your range.

Keith Billik - Posted - 07/30/2024:  20:01:05

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick1962

So, I would like to figure out what key I sing in and was thinking of taking a song I know well like "Im So Lonesome I Could cry" by Hank Williams. It has the chords E- A- B7, which is essentially 1-4-5, right? I cant sing great but Im not horrible either. But I know I cant sing it in the key that he is singing it in. So could I start trying it in the key of A...(A-D-E7)? and just go up from there until I find the right key? Or is there an easier way to figure out what key I sing in?

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I should also add that, while many singers do seem to gravitate toward certain favorite keys, there's not really a "key that you sing in." It's all about the range. For example, you might comfortably sing a song in E when the melody starts on the E note. But a different song in E may be way too high, if the melody starts on a B. Hope that makes sense.

Owen - Posted - 07/30/2024:  20:42:03

Maybe not a widely recommended way, but I sang (?) a bit while doing an alternating thumb roll and asked a guy with considerable experience if I was singing in "G."  He said I was, and that suited me just fine ... as I'd previously heard something or other about there being  2 keys: "G" and "not G."  

Patrick1962 - Posted - 07/30/2024:  21:53:31

Owen, Keith- thanks guys! Besides of course loving BG music Im also a huge fan of Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, and Willie Nelson-those are my boys!! Would really like to be able to play and sing some of their songs on banjo and BG rhythm guitar.

steve davis - Posted - 07/31/2024:  07:01:56

When you sing in public you'll find that you can sing higher than you do at home.

Edited by - steve davis on 07/31/2024 07:02:32

Texasbanjo - Posted - 07/31/2024:  08:16:28

Well, Keith beat me to it on how find your voice range. That's the way I figure out mine.

I've also found that although I have a "favorite" key in which to sing, that it doesn't always work that way. For instance, I usually sing in the key of C, but have songs that run the gamit from A to G.

Just trying out a song in different keys will also work.

I've also found out that if you can sing a song in a key you like but can't hit that one high note, you can usually take that note down an octave and be able to sing it just fine. I've done that on several songs and, while it's not the norm, it works.

BG Banjo - Posted - 07/31/2024:  08:48:35

Only thing is, at least for me, in some keys like the key of G, I can sing some songs really well and others I bottom out. I haven't figured out exactly why. It might be what octave I am starting out in.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 07/31/2024:  09:23:43

In bluegrass and related styles (old-time country, traditional folk, etc.) a lot of the songs (though definitely not all!) have a range of roughly one octave, where the highest note is the 5th note of the scale and the lowest note is the same note one octave lower. If you do these songs in G, that corresponds to our two D strings (assuming the banjo is in G tuning). Most adult men find that's fairly accessible for their vocal ranges, though the higher D may feel like it's just starting to be a strain. Women will usually want to sing things anywhere from a whole tone to a fifth higher.



"I'm So Lonesome..." fits this pattern. I don't know your vocal range (Keith's suggestion is a good one), but try playing and singing the song in G. And let us know how that works out for you. Are you straining on the high note? Bottoming out on the low one?

Edited by - Ira Gitlin on 07/31/2024 09:24:23

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/31/2024:  10:00:40

not that i am proof--but there are a lot of good vids on singing on you tube nowadays--teaching chest voice vs head voice--air control--falsetto (not me ha ha}etc.

They show little tricks to make one aware of this and that -- how to control these properties--some show how to expand one's range--with proper technique

for example a couple of them said say the words but in tune--that is your natural voice

Before the net--this kinda stuff was not around without taking lessons

finding your range yep what has already been said

my opinion-I ask no agreement

Edited by - Tractor1 on 07/31/2024 10:02:47

reubenstump - Posted - 07/31/2024:  15:30:46

I found the key I sing in. However, it's not suiable for human ears - it makes the banjo's "half barbaric twang" sound like a fine french horn.

Tim Jumper - Posted - 07/31/2024:  16:58:36

I second Steve's comment -- often a full tone or minor third higher.
And the higher pitch projects better and has more "ping."
That's why opera tenors get paid more than baritones and bassos.
(Life just ain't fair.)

Patrick1962 - Posted - 07/31/2024:  18:05:09

This is great stuff!! Thanks everybody! I love this site!

banjoak - Posted - 08/01/2024:  13:54:44

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick1962

So, I would like to figure out what key I sing in and was thinking of taking a song I know well like "Im So Lonesome I Could cry" by Hank Williams. It has the chords E- A- B7, which is essentially 1-4-5, right? I cant sing great but Im not horrible either. But I know I cant sing it in the key that he is singing it in. So could I start trying it in the key of A...(A-D-E7)? and just go up from there until I find the right key? Or is there an easier way to figure out what key I sing in?

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A limited singular "right" key for all songs is not really how it works.

The lowest and highest notes you can sing is your range of notes, and can slightly change from day to day. Melody for a song also has a range. A song's lowest/highest note could be the tonic; or the fifth; or other; so doesn't define one singular key. For many folks, vocal range often exceeds the melodic range of the song, thus giving leeway up or down a few steps. How much leeway depends on song.

In finding the lowest and highest note you can sing... keep in mind you have different type of vocal registers -  chest, middle, head, (and of course falsetto). Besides just ability to hit notes in tune, pay attention to the power and tonal qualities of the notes in these registers, how registers break.

These qualities affect what key to choose to fit the song, (for example if wanting a softer/warmer/mellower quality, might choose a bit lower key with chest/middle register). For that reason, there might be a more limited, or sense of a "right" key for a singer that just feels right, for that song.   

One other consideration in choosing key, is playing with other instruments and individuals.

steve davis - Posted - 08/02/2024:  07:42:44

The more you sing,the more your range will grow.

steve davis - Posted - 08/02/2024:  15:47:22

I really enjoy singing high tenor to I Overlooked an Orchid While Searching For a Rose.
The falsetto gets stronger with practice.A nice challenge to get a strong tone.

Tim Jumper - Posted - 08/02/2024:  16:42:24

Speaking of falsetto, let's recall Frankie Valli's castrato-like squeal with which he exhorted his son to "Walk like a Man," while sounding just like a little girl!

steve davis - Posted - 08/02/2024:  16:57:12

I was thinking of Joe Val.

Nielen - Posted - 08/03/2024:  01:13:53

quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

When you sing in public you'll find that you can sing higher than you do at home.

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Yeah, I've found this - and so do the some of other guys in my band.  Tend to accommodate the higher notes easier when I'm belting it out, which implies that I'd handle things better if I had a properly trained set of vocal cords!  Then there's the matter of finding a range if you're gonna do one of the harmonies...

Texasbanjo - Posted - 08/03/2024:  04:26:28

If you can afford it, take a few voice lessons. That will teach you correct breathing techniques and how to project your voice, etc.

I was amazed how much better my voice and voice range became after a few lessons.

Patrick1962 - Posted - 08/03/2024:  06:28:18

Sherry-I have been tossing that idea around, should just do it..would probably give me a little more confidence.

Tim Jumper - Posted - 08/03/2024:  07:11:12

No comparison was intended, Steve. I'll take Val over Valli any day!

steve davis - Posted - 08/03/2024:  09:53:23

The best regular and tenor singers I've heard didn't take singing lessons.They sing what sounds right.

Edited by - steve davis on 08/03/2024 09:54:12

Texasbanjo - Posted - 08/03/2024:  10:20:40

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick1962

Sherry-I have been tossing that idea around, should just do it..would probably give me a little more confidence.

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It definitely helped me, especially in the confidence area.  Just learning the correct way to breathe and project my voice without losing any pitch was worth it.

It isn't necessary, but it can be a good investment. 

Patrick1962 - Posted - 08/03/2024:  18:17:19

Sherry-yeah, I hear you. I have a couple of years yet to get my schtick together and while I don't have a horrible voice it would be nice to have a professional help me to make the most out of what I have. I would like to develop a combination of voice styles including Lester Flatt, Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, and Dan Tyminski...Yeah..I know..tall order. And hopefully by then I wont be so paranoid about my new banjo (got an RK 76 a month ago) so paranoid that I will drop, scratch, break something etc..you get the idea..LOL