peterreynoldsuk - Posted - 05/13/2024:  12:25:06

I've used the Janet Davis Book, "Banjo Scales in Tab" a lot. I am sure everyone is familiar with it. It presents each scale (Ionian) in a number of ways, together with exercises and licks. I much prefer this to the chord presentation type books with the fretboard set out with all the relevant notes - I find those confusing and overwhelming.
I like drills and exercises and wonder if there would be any mileage in producing further books, similar to "Banjo Scales in Tab" that are based around minor and modal scales. I am out of my depth here in trying to express exactly what I mean (not much of a music theorist), but I mean something along the lines of "Banjo Scales in Tab in Dorian Mode" or "... Harmonic Minor" etc.
Maybe this would be unnecessarily complicated but I wonder if an accessible series of exercises might stimulate the imagination in new ways.
Any responses to me, please in simple language!
Peter

thisoldman - Posted - 05/13/2024:  13:58:08

For some reason, Pat Cloud's name popped into my head. He is a member here. He has a couple books, The Key to the 5 String Banjo and Straight Ahead Jazz. Another name also came to mind.. .Doub Pearce...he has a YouTube series on harmony and Improvisation. Don't know if either one of those resources would be interesting to you.  There are a couple members here that are very knowledgeable about music theory, but their user names are not coming to me.  My guess is that they will see the word "modes" and respond.  This blog post might lead you somewhere.  

Edited by - thisoldman on 05/13/2024 14:03:20

Texasbanjo - Posted - 05/13/2024:  14:11:22

You might check with Alan Munde on modes; i.e., exercises, scales, etc. If my memory serves me correctly, he gave out such information in paper/tab form at Camp Bluegrass many years ago. I've probably still got it somewhere, but finding it..... would take a lot of time.

peterreynoldsuk - Posted - 05/13/2024:  15:17:04

Thanks guys,
Looks an interesting path for research,
Peter

trapdoor2 - Posted - 05/13/2024:  15:51:45

Pete Pardee published such a book back in the mid 80s..."Scales and Arpeggios for 5-String Banjo".

Occasionally you'll see a copy for sale.

If you have a given Major scale down, then the Dorian scale based on that Major scale is pretty easy, just start on the II and play the same series of the rest of the notes.

For instance, Dmaj becomes E Dorian. Gmaj becomes A Dorian, etc.,etc.

It helps to have learned two octave scales...

John Bullard also has a "scales" book that covers Maj and Minor.

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/13/2024:  19:37:31

Doub Pearce is a member here. Haven't seen him post in ages. In the Photos pages of the Media section of his profile he has posted a large number of image files of exercises and study materials such as modal, blues and diatonic scales, patterns to play in various harmonic situations, and much more. Start on the first page of his default photo album. He also has a separate photo library of Melodic Minor Studies.

Pat Cloud's Key to Five String Banjo (Home Improvisation Workshop) is too wide ranging for me to summarize what it is. Here's the table of contents. It's mostly theory and exercises. Maybe only a couple tunes. I haven't spent as much time with it as I should. I find it takes a lot of thinking for what it says to sink in. I'll have to crack it open again.

Noam Pikelny's single string lessons in his school on ArtistWorks include modes of G Major with scale exercises starting the G Major scale on each note of the scale from 4th string 5th fret up to 4th string 17th fret. He also teaches multiple patterns starting with different fingers. In this context, the modes are taught as different ways and places to play a G Major scale. There are not accompanying lessons on the harmonic reasons to use modes. I've barely scratched the surface of this.

Have fun checking out the other resources mentioned so far.

Greg Denton - Posted - 05/14/2024:  03:41:54

You could use the Janet Davis book itself, couldn't you? Modes are just the Major Scale starting on a different degree. To practice an A-Dorian scale, for example, just practice your G-Major scale and exercises but start on the A-note. B-Phrygian? Again, practice your G-Major Scale but start on the B-note. Same for C-Lydian. D-Mixolydian, E-Aeolian (E-minor natural), and F#-Locrian.

peterreynoldsuk - Posted - 05/14/2024:  03:58:40

Thanks Marc and Ken et al, for taking the trouble to provide all this info and the links. I shall certainly be following this up.
Here is a thought (and remember I am way out of my depth): If I take with a Gmaj scale and then start with the second note, it becomes an A Dorian (I believe). Could that work with licks (presumably melodic ones would be best)? Might starting on the second note of the lick make it an A dorian lick? (It would entail the first two notes of the lick being the first two notes of the Gmaj scale, I suppose.) Or is there no such thing as a, say, phrygian lick?
I appreciate the rich trail of possibilities that have been provided. I like things to be done, "decently and in order". I am still wondering therefore, returning to my initial mention of the Janet Davis book, whether it could be possible to reproduce a whole series of tab books, each including a compendium of licks. I realise that this might not be a very commercial option. It might eventually be a library of Minor scales and licks (I do find minor licks in tab books, but usually only a few), and one volume for each of the modes. I guess the minor could be further divided into a book on natural, melodic and harmonic (and then some might want diminished scales etc!!!)
I find "Banjo Scales in Tab" to be very accessible - even a lower intermediate entry level. I guess it would become a quite expensive library to own them all. But I think the heart of my question is, "Would such a thing be possible?" or am I trying to reduce a lot of complexities into a simple and restrictive template? Again, let me reiterate I am out of my depth trying to grasp how these things all hold together. I feel like I am reaching out into the fog.
Thanks again to everybody for the responses and the trouble you have taken.
Peter

thisoldman - Posted - 05/14/2024:  06:44:52

I imagine that tab books on modes/scales/licks would have a pretty limited audience. But in these days, with an online presence and digital files, it would be fairly easy to start such a project, once you did the hard work of doing the arrangements. More of a "passion" project than a financial one, though lots of people share their work online and fund it with donations or Patreon. If you want to make some money for your time. I am a "patron" to two teachers, one for banjo and one for bass guitar.



Before I took up the banjo, one of my forays into learning a stringed instrument after I retired involved playing (electric) bass for a few months. Then I put it away. The past several months I have brought out the bass quite a bit. Now, one could get by hitting the root note (and the 5th), but to "really" play bass one needs to get a grasp on music theory, a subject I virtually ignored when learning the banjo, learning only when and what I needed to. So I have learned quite a bit more about keys, chord construction, scales, etc. the past few months. And yes, I have a book on theory for bass which delves with modes, although I haven't dived into it yet. And learning more music theory has made me a more informed player.

Edited by - thisoldman on 05/14/2024 06:46:42

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 05/14/2024:  08:50:57

Scales and modes are simple logic, it's all about how do I alter the (mother of all scales)  the Ionian mode.

Here's my chart of 336 scale patterns on the 5-string (standard tuning) banjo on one page.

BTW starting on the different intervals of the scale to get the modes is a dead end. It works in theory but leads to confusion in real life application.

Banjo Scales

 

airport-security - Posted - 05/14/2024:  09:36:13

The wonderful Claudio Parravicini (he gives lessons! look him up!) has a great (if mistitled) book which covers modes as well as a lot of other great stuff on improvisation: amazon.com/Banjo-Licks-Differe...513472186

peterreynoldsuk - Posted - 05/14/2024:  11:38:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg Denton

You could use the Janet Davis book itself, couldn't you? Modes are just the Major Scale starting on a different degree. To practice an A-Dorian scale, for example, just practice your G-Major scale and exercises but start on the A-note. B-Phrygian? Again, practice your G-Major Scale but start on the B-note. Same for C-Lydian. D-Mixolydian, E-Aeolian (E-minor natural), and F#-Locrian.

---

That sounds like a brilliant suggestion - figuring it out from that template might be a good way to absorb the material. Thanks Greg.

thisoldman - Posted - 05/14/2024:  13:50:39

Rick Van Patton (mmuussiiccaall) was one of the members I was thinking of when I read the initial post, as he often responds to questions regarding theory. I just couldn't remember his username. I'm glad he noticed this post and contributed to it.