Patrick1962 - Posted - 04/29/2024:  22:53:23

So Ive been at this for 8 months now..just started a month ago with the "F" and "D" shapes as well as some other 2 and 3 finger chords. Although I am not thrilled with the "D" shape (some days I want to break my fingers with a hammer and FORCE them to do it) I really like the idea that you can move them anywhere..cool, right? So I was wondering..I learned the 4 finger version of C7..can you also move it up a whole step and get D7 etc?

Capybara - Posted - 04/30/2024:  01:08:35

Simply put, yes.

BobbyE - Posted - 04/30/2024:  04:57:25

Yes you can but you should still learn the chord shapes and be able to change to them without thinking. Just takes time. Don't shortchange your playing by looking for ways to not learn to do something that will make you a better player.

Bobby

Fathand - Posted - 04/30/2024:  05:26:08

Any chord formation that covers all 4 strings can be moved up and down the neck.

If you're not playing the 4th string you only need to cover first 3 strings or sometimes 2 strings if only playing those. Sometimes those open strings will work too depending what chord your at.

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 04/30/2024:  05:47:02

Here’s an Earl way:
0x310 0x210

KCJones - Posted - 04/30/2024:  05:50:16

The answer to your question is 'yes', as has been mentioned above.



The longer answer is that, on the banjo, there are effectively only 3 chord shapes: D-shape, F-shape, and Barre-shape.



"D-shape" is the D chord you know (4-2-3-4). If you move it up and down the neck, it can be any chord you want. So move it up two frets and it's an E, two more and it's an F, once more and you've got your next G chord.



"F-shape" is the same as the D-shape, except you flip fingers on strings 2 and 3 (e.g. 3-2-1-3 for F chord). You can move this shape up and down, and make any chord you want. For example if you move it up two frets, it's a G chord.



"Barre-shape" is just a flat shape across the fretboard (e.g. 2-2-2-2 for A chord). It's the same as the nut, only you use your finger to move it up and down. So playing completely open with no fretting is a G-chord, that's why it's called "Open G tuning". If you use your index (and ring finger at first, if you need more strength), you can move it up the neck to make new chords. Open is G, move up two frets to A, then two more to B, and then at the 5th fret you have a C-chord with the barre shape.



It gets deeper than that, too. But that's a start. The musical alphabet is A-A#-B-C-D-D#-E-E#-F-G-G#. The distance between each note is called a "half-step". Each fret is a half-step. If you make one chord shape in one spot, you can move it around to make different chords with the same shape.

Edited by - KCJones on 04/30/2024 05:51:01

KCJones - Posted - 04/30/2024:  05:52:08

Jim Pankey has a good video outlining this basic concept. There's not really a bottom to this rabbit hole, but this is a good place to dive in.

youtube.com/watch?v=uqGZwbRFlpc

PHJim - Posted - 04/30/2024:  06:54:53

KCJones said, "The longer answer is that, on the banjo, there are effectively only 3 chord shapes."

More accurately, ". . . there are effectively only 3 Ma chord shapes," assuming that we are in open G tuning.



There are other movable chord shapes. 

Omitting the 5th string, the G shape 5435 can be modified to a G7 5433, or a Gm 5335.

The D shape 4234 can be modified to a D7 (no root) 4214 or a Dm 3233.

The barre A shape 2222 can be modified to an A7 2225 or an Am 2212.

2125 is a movable diminished 7 shape.

Edited by - PHJim on 04/30/2024 06:56:18

Patrick1962 - Posted - 04/30/2024:  07:14:36

Thanks everybody.
Bobby: wasn't trying to not learn anything..am trying to expand the ways I can do something with the thought that depending on what came before or after it one might be a smoother transition over another. In other words, more than one way to skin a cat. And although I haven't learned them yet I know that there is a minor and 7th for the F, D, and barre shapes..too cool, right? Seems to me there isn't a lot you cant do if you get those down

thisoldman - Posted - 04/30/2024:  09:42:08

For an "easy button" for a minor chord, there is a movable shape (I call it a "triangle") using the first 3 strings, like the C minor at the 4th fret, the D minor at the 6th fret, E minor at the 8th, etc. The root is on the 3rd (G) string. You may have discovered that already, but I thought I'd throw that out. Doesn't work with minor sharps/flats though.

Patrick1962 - Posted - 04/30/2024:  21:09:10

Thisoldman: youre talking about the A minor shape-2nd string/first fret and 1st and 3rd string 2nd fret? Yeah I was wondering about that one too..good to know..although I kinda like the 4 finger F, D, and barre so you can play all the strings... and even though my fingers hate the D shape (I have threatened my fingers on more than one occasion with a hammer if they don't start complying...lol) I still appreciate its usefulness.

PHJim - Posted - 05/09/2024:  10:18:29

quote:

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Originally posted by PHJim

KCJones said, "The longer answer is that, on the banjo, there are effectively only 3 chord shapes."

More accurately, ". . . there are effectively only 3 Ma chord shapes," assuming that we are in open G tuning.



There are other movable chord shapes. 

Omitting the 5th string, the G shape 5435 can be modified to a G7 5433, or a Gm 5335.

The D shape 4234 can be modified to a D7 (no root) 4214 or a Dm 3233.

The barre A shape 2222 can be modified to an A7 2225 or an Am 2212.

2125 is a movable diminished 7 shape. (Any note can act as the root.)

 

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I have modified these shapes to indicate the root or letter name of the chord.

Edited by - PHJim on 05/09/2024 10:19:11

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/09/2024:  11:28:38

quote:

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Originally posted by Fathand

If you're not playing the 4th string you only need to cover first 3 strings or sometimes 2 strings if only playing those. Sometimes those open strings will work too depending what chord your at.

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Patrick, take note.   Every sentence quoted here is something that first-year players need to read, think about, and learn.

OF COURSE forming full 4-finger chord shapes and changing them in time to the music is an important and necessary skill to learn . BUT novices also need to learn players don't always (can I say "almost never") need 4-finger chords when playing a melody, solo, or lead break.  (And of course there are many highly chord-dependent instrumentals, but no sense in describing every playing situation). Suffice it to say in general, experienced players use four-finger chords primarily for back-up and only use them in lead/solo playing when musically necessary.

As Rick says, you're far more likely to need or use three- and two-finger shapes. I believe most experienced players try to get in the habit of fretting only the strings they need at a particular time. Of course habit is tough to break and sometimes our hands have a mind of their own. And some folks have mentioned from time-to-time that fretting all the strings, even when not needed, prevents you accidentally hitting bad notes.

What you'll eventually learn is that the two-finger shapes -- often called "partials" -- on the first two strings can imply at least three different chords each. For example, 2nd and 1st string at the same fret (any fret) can imply a major, minor, diminished, or dominant seventh chord. Depends on what 3rd string note you imagine you're leaving out.

Choosing what note to leave out is a topic in itself!

Of course you can play the shape you've discovered about moving from C7 to D7, especially if there's a musical reason to do that.

For D7, I mostly play the previously mentioned 2-1-0 (with or without the open 4th).   I also use the movable three-finger 2-1-4 for some specific instances in my banjo arrangements of show tunes or Great American Songbook melodies. (Leaves out the 4th string) That's a movable shape that I also use for E7, E-flat7, and F#7 in some songs. Or maybe it's F7. Yes, there are easier ways to play some of those, but my musical reason is I want or need the high note on the first string.

For a D Major chord, you may find that actual playing situations may call for no more than 4-2-x-0 (two fingers) or even 0-2-x-0, or x-2-x-0 (one finger, with 5th string played as a drone, of course).

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/09/2024:  12:01:08

quote:

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Originally posted by thisoldman

For an "easy button" for a minor chord, there is a movable shape (I call it a "triangle") using the first 3 strings, like the C minor at the 4th fret, the D minor at the 6th fret, E minor at the 8th, etc. The root is on the 3rd (G) string. You may have discovered that already, but I thought I'd throw that out. Doesn't work with minor sharps/flats though.

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The "triangle" shape 3-2-3  (B-flat, D-flat, F) is a B-flat minor chord.

6-5-6 (C#, E, G#) is C# minor.

Not sure what you mean about this shape not working with minor sharps/flats. It's a minor triad wherever you play it. The note on the third string is the root or name, and can be a natural note or a sharp or flat.

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/09/2024:  12:23:49

quote:

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Originally posted by KCJones

...on the banjo, there are effectively only 3 chord shapes: D-shape, F-shape, and Barre-shape.

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Valuable information.

I'll add on to clarify for Patrick that while it may not be obvious at first, the three-finger C Major chord (2-0-1-2) is a D shape chord two frets down with the nut taking the place of the index finger fretting the third string.  And the E Major chord (2-1-0-2) is an F shape slid down one fret so the nut takes the place of the index finger fretting the second string.

To play C and E chords, we switch the fingering from D and F shapes to something easier and more practical. But they are the same shapes -- or inversions -- as their respective D and F, with the root, third, and fifth on the same strings.

Patrick1962 - Posted - 05/09/2024:  18:27:12

This is some great stuff guys! Appreciate all the insights..will save me a huge amount of practice time. So Im guessing then that the 3 finger triangle a minor shape on the first 3 strings can be moved up to a b minor, c minor etc as well?