Culloden - Posted - 01/29/2024:  09:08:30

Some time ago I posted about an old Rettberg & Lange banjo that I was restoring. Now that it's together I have it strung up with LaBella nylon strings. My question is, how long does it take for nylon strings to stretch out? I figured on a week or two, but the strings have been on the banjo for a month, and they are still stretching. I have it tuned in Double C and every time I pick it up, I have to go through a major retuning process. I get it in tune, play one song, and have to retune again. If I tighten the screws any more, I won't be able to turn the pegs.
I know that many of you are more familiar with nylon strings than I am. Is it normal for strings to take more than a month to stretch to their playing tension?

csacwp - Posted - 01/29/2024:  09:16:31

It's normal to have to retune a little bit each time you take the banjo out of its case, but having to undergo a "major tuning process" is abnormal. How did you attach the nylon strings to the tuners and the tailpiece?

Joel Hooks - Posted - 01/29/2024:  09:31:15

LaBella? I put them on, tune them one full step above concert pitch gCGBD and put the banjo away for the night. Next couple of days require touch up but it does not take long to stabilize.

Do not “stretch” them. This will cause false strings and the slightly off intonation will drive you crazy. All those videos that show stretching tricks are wrong, classical guitarists know this.

Check your attachments. Again, the videos that show bowline knots are wasted effort. Also don’t burn the ends of the strings.

If you have a real noknot use it correctly, if a post then use a simple figure eight knot with the lower loop around the post.

Don’t tie the strings to the pegs. Put through the hole and twist the working end around the other a couple of times and wind.

Check for slipping pegs— this is likely your problem.

Culloden - Posted - 01/29/2024:  12:49:48

I knotted the ends and inserted them in the slots of the tailpiece. Then I ran them through the holes in the tuner shafts and tightened them the usual way. I didn't leave any slack when I pulled them through the tuners because I have strung ukuleles before.
I took pictures with my phone but I can't post them from my phone to the site. I will take pictures with the camera when I get home from work so I can show how I did it.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 01/29/2024:  19:21:09

If your pegs are tightened to where they are hard to turn, I don't see how they could be slipping. Is it possible that the screws have bottomed out? That is, the pegs are not actually gripping the wood and holding tension.
If a peg is slipping, you'll feel the string push it back against your thumb after you've tuned it upward-- if you don't let go of it too quickly.

If the problem is the string stretching, you'll see more and more turns of string wound on the peg.

If a string is slipping through the peg or the tailpiece, it most likely will come completely loose once it's been through just a few cycles of slipping and retuning.

Another possibility: the strings could be binding in the slots on the nut and/or bridge. Widen them (if necessary), make sure they're smooth, and lubricate them with graphite (soft pencil lead).

Culloden - Posted - 01/30/2024:  09:06:58

Here are a few pictures of the way I attached the strings. The pictures aren't as clear as I would like.

Edited by - Culloden on 01/30/2024 09:07:44

 

Brett - Posted - 01/30/2024:  10:06:18

Pretty tuner buttons Mark.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 01/30/2024:  10:54:07

Can't quite see, but it looks like it's previously had some very different pegs on it, which have rather chewed up the peghead face around the pegs. The current pegs look like the kind which need both ends of the peg hole to be chamfered or radiused correctly to provide a smooth bearing surface. You might need to inlay some correctly-shaped bushings at the front (and back?) of each hole to get those pegs working right.

It would be easier to just swap the tuners out for Champions or (if you don't mind the extra weight) planetaries, but it would be nice to keep those amber buttons!

Culloden - Posted - 01/30/2024:  16:21:14

Brett and Dan,
I got the tuners from Bob Smakula. They are old tuners with new knobs on them. I had to dowel the second string hole and redrill it, then countersink the hole top and bottom to make the tuner fit. The other tuners fit the holes without any problems.
The banjo came to me with Champion tuners but they fit poorly. The ones I have now fit better with only the one alteration. As for planetary tuners, I never liked using them with nylon strings. I would be reluctant to put other tuners on it. If I sell it I don't have much profit margin as it is.

Brett - Posted - 01/30/2024:  17:19:52

I like friction tuners for non metallic strings. And I keep the friction 5th in my 60s Vegas strung with metal, they hold just fine to me.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 01/30/2024:  18:13:13

If they're correctly fitted, I do prefer that kind of peg to Champions. They can even be tolerably usable with wire strings IMO.

Now, have you figured out why you're having such trouble keeping it in tune?