banjobard92 - Posted - 11/03/2023:  18:36:30

Hi everybody!

First time poster but long time lurker.

I picked up frailing about two years ago and am falling in love with the banjo.
On my quest to just be able to learn to play I've been up the bad habit of my thumb "not going home" to the 5th string after each hit. I tend to float it off to the side if I'm not hitting the string which I've learned is a big no-no. Does anybody have any recommendations on how to move forward without resetting my progress? I can do sweeps and drop thumb fine but I have noticed this issue is hanging me up on some songs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Also does anyone know anything about RH Abrams banjos? I recently bought one and would like to know more about the maker.


Thanks in advance!

Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/03/2023:  23:08:27

How does your playing sound? Is the fifth string coming in late? Don’t obsess over technique if what you do works. I learned in the early ‘60s before all the detailed analytical approaches to clawhammer showed up. I never worried about it. I play just fine, and I couldn’t tell you exactly what my thumb does. I never broke down the frailing stroke like that for my students. They learned to play with no problems. Unless your thumb isn’t working musically—just play and let your ear be your guide. I’m sure some of the very fine teachers who read and post here will strongly disagree with me. But I choose to stay with the clawhammer watchword: “whatever works.”

Pomeroy - Posted - 11/04/2023:  04:15:06

In principle I agree with Bill, the banjo is wonderfully accommodating of personal idiosyncrasies. If it sounds right it is right.



But I notice you ask specifically how to change an aspect of your playing that you yourself have identified is causing you an issue on some tunes. Can you do that without 'resetting my progress'? Altering unhelpful or obstructive technique that has already become automatic and 'natural' will by definition require adapting and resetting technique in a way that initially feels 'unnatural' and counter-intuitive. The way to do that is conscious implementing a change to what you want /need to do via repetition to remove that obstruction. It's perfectly achievable but is time consuming. Anything that you determine is a step forward is progress. Just that sometimes we have to take one step back to go two steps forward.



The big positive is that you have identified the technique you want to alter; that is an ability in itself. We can only consciously alter and improve what we first identify.



I have a student who has/had a similar tendency to occasionally float their thumb away from 'home' on the 5th string. He has excellent natural sense of timing and rhythm but that float was causing/introducing a particular effect on timing. Between us we identified when and (maybe) why he was doing this. He then understood the cause of that effect and had the choice to alter his technique or not.

Edited by - Pomeroy on 11/04/2023 04:20:25

GMB - Posted - 11/04/2023:  06:42:48

YouTube Tom Collins DeadThumb. Hope this helps!

Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/04/2023:  10:41:23

Pomeroy makes a good point. So the question, from what I can tell, is whether you seek to change your technique because it interferes with your playing and is inhibiting your progress—or because you’ve read and seen presentations of “proper” technique that isn’t the way you play? If the former then there’s no better analysis than Tom Collins’s; if the latter, keep on doing what you’re doing.

banjoak - Posted - 11/04/2023:  15:34:21

Don't have to think of it as resetting your progress.

You've learned a technique, to play one style.

Now you want to learn a NEW style, which requires using NEW different technique, one which you haven't learned, have much any previous experience.

Start with basics of that new style; hand shape, how to move hand. Probably simplify, initially leave out drop-thumb, and sweeps. A bit of double thumbing approach, exercises/tunes can be useful, at least in that the thumb lands on the fifth string every other note; learn to control whether sounds or not.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/05/2023:  10:44:57

Clawhammer Banjo - Three Different Right Hand Approaches - YouTube

Posted fifteen years ago, but in my opinion one of the very best videos on the subject.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/05/2023:  11:15:07

I would take R.D.’s opinion first among posters I’m familiar with. He’s a wonderful player who has been at it a long time, published some of the best clawhammer tab around, and his thoughts are always on the money.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/08/2023:  00:04:36

Bill' you are a player of experience and great knowledge and I am honored by your good opinion.  Thank you.

Thank you also for your long-standing service as a moderator- it's not always the easiest job.

-RD

Paul Roberts - Posted - 11/11/2023:  07:14:51

Think of your thumb as having an internal spring. Immediately after striking the 5th string, the thumb pops backwards. The movement - rather than terminating in a downwards position - is circular, clockwise. You can also practice the motion with and without a banjo: a smooth, effortless circle. After the thumb sets off the vibration of the 5th string, it automatically bounces back to a cocked position, ready for its next flight. Light, circular, resilient, bounce. When you get it, you'll feel a self-sustaining energy in your playing hand, instead of allowing the habit you've developed from holding yourself back from being in the flow. Then you can gallop for long distances, effortlessly.