beezaboy - Posted - 10/16/2023:  09:30:38

IMBanjoJim
Thank you in advance for your consideration of the following. I am a Rettberg & Lange person because they were an early maker of the Banjorine Mandolin (aka Tenor Banjo) but sometimes by necessity I gently engage with 5-string banjos about which my knowledge is abysmal. Here we go:
John Henry (J. H.) Buckbee seems to have manufactured many banjos during the nineteenth century. Most seem to be unbranded. When we neophytes see particular features in an unbranded spun rim 5-string (peghead shape, etc.) many conclude that "it's a "Buckbee". But actually there were two Buckbees in the nineteenth century, namely "J. H. Buckbee" and his son J. H (Johnny) Buckbee II. J. H. died in 1890 (March 8, 1890). Johnny Buckbee II took over his father's Buckbee instrument factory and apparently managed the business and factory until August 1897 when he lost the business in a judicial sale. Question: Can original J. H. Buckbee banjos (ca. 1870-1890) be distinguished from those manufactured by Johnny Buckbee II (1890-1897). Or, simply put, do I have an original JHB or a Johnny Buckbee banjo?
Next question - Within a few weeks of the Buckbee judicial sale, Rettberg & Lange succeeded Johnny Buckbee II in the Buckbee banjo plant and apparently continued to make spun rim 5-string banjos for the trade especially Bruno jobber a regular Buckbee customer. Did Rettberg & Lange make "Buckbee" style banjos in the late 1890's that are the same or similar to the original J.H. Buckbee products or those made by Johnny Buckbee II? If so, can R&L "Buckbee" banjos be distinguished from the J.H. Buckbee originals or the Johnny Buckbee II successor products?

kyleb - Posted - 10/16/2023:  09:42:42

Regarding the distinction of jh vrs johnny banjos i think its a tricky questions since banjo styles in general evolved so much in that same period, it would be dificult to say whether the changes in style were due to who was leading the company and what the market demands were. I don't think either buckbee were heavily involved in the day to design and production of banjos, like SS Stewart was, also I would guess that Johny was likely involved in the buisness before his father death. But that is speculation. The classic buckbee design seems to have trancended the 1880s into the early 1900s with R&L with most of the changes being in how many hooks and nuts it had and full spun over rim giving way to partial. It would be interesting to see how the buisness changed, I wonder if production numbers changed, the number of different brands and jobbers they worked with changed etc.

IMBanjoJim - Posted - 10/16/2023:  09:47:14

I probably haven’t had enough coffee yet to answer coherently.
Mark Ralston, a frequent contributor here, is the man to ask about Buckbees.
THE book to read about them (You may already know this) is Reginald W. Bacon’s Chauncey Richmond & The Old Buckbee.
For myself, I sometimes jokingly refer to my collection as The Buckbee Collection because I suspect that a number of unmarked late 19th century banjos that I own began life in the Buckbee factory.

beezaboy - Posted - 10/16/2023:  10:11:36

Thank you for considering. Just for example I once owned a Beau Brummel. It has JHB stamped on the heel. Was it an original JHB or a Johnny II?

edit:  Yes I have the Bacon Buckbee book

Edited by - beezaboy on 10/16/2023 10:14:17

Beau Brummel 1

Beau Brummel 2

Beau Brummel 3

 

IMBanjoJim - Posted - 10/16/2023:  10:33:07

By the way, telling you to contact Mark Ralston is an example of passing the Buck-bee.