MRichaud - Posted - 09/03/2023:  05:27:23

Not sure if it's been posted, but very interesting. Posting it here, but applies to all genres of banjo music.

youtube.com/watch?v=RiP8Tfa8bB8

Mickey

banjered - Posted - 09/03/2023:  06:04:18

That was wonderful! I had a similar experience to Rhianon (sp?) the first time I heard clawhammer. Like her I thought banjo was bluegrass and that was it. From my BHO banjo bio: "I was walking down the streets of Santa Cruz (Ca.) one day out in front of the Cooper House when I saw/heard a banjo, but not like any banjo I had ever heard before. "Whatzat you playing?" "Clawhammer", she said. That was it, the devil nailed me right there and down his dark road I have staggered ever since."

I actually thought two or three banjos were playing together as I heard melody and rhythm happening all at once but it was only one woman and a banjo playing with a concertina player. It's been fun and will continue for the duration. Thanks! banjered

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/03/2023:  07:06:44

I am now a fan of Rhianna after watching--I have to take exception to some of her generalizations about bluegrass vs old time funkiness-- it depends on the individual involved imo --- Also I beg to differ on what she gave forth as a void in the knowledge of other players --- that is only --in a percentage ,not the total group- -But yes there were subjects unknown to me== tidbits that were quiet interesting such as the spiritual side ---the banjo in it's travels has been in more social circle and places of interest --than any of us--

The human race from the past is not my cross to bare and I had no part in some history getting left out --an idea that has came up a lot--

She has done a great job with her music for sure---And only a bit overly rhetorical--hey we all have that trait

Edited by - Tractor1 on 09/03/2023 07:16:44

 

jojo25 - Posted - 09/05/2023:  09:39:55

Rhiannon Giddens is a very accomplished artist...of that there can be no doubt...but I am SO tired of hearing about how I need to learn the roots of the banjer...that was interesting the first time I heard it...like in 1976...and it stayed interesting until about the 8th time I heard it...I get it...really I do...but...for me...it is like learning...in 2nd grade...that 2+2=4...good to know...good to review in 3rd...and even 4th & 5th...grades. Rhiannon is a great vocalist...and a rather so-so banjo and fiddle player...and it seems that she just has to keep driving home this point...ok...but it makes me go away...if she wants to really dig deeper she should venture into why banjo players are the butt of so many nasty jokes...sorry...just had to get that off my chest...it has been bothering me for a long time

writerrad - Posted - 09/06/2023:  11:24:15

This  YouTube is a sampling from and a promotional tool  for Rhiannon's Wondrium series.  It is an educational series to teach the history and the roots of the banjo that must be purchased.  

There are 6  or 7 episodes and a couple additional segments that are just performances.  The emphasis is on the African and Caribbean roots of the banjo and African American banjo playing, but it takes the banjo throughout its history and gives a . 

A number of real banjo historians appear.  My favorite banjo historian,  Tony Thomas,  appears in several segments!    You will also get to see the Smithsonian's Greg Adams, Pete Ross, and Kristina Gaddy author of Well of Souls in a round table about the earliest days of the banjo.  The series also covers Irish banjo playing since Rhiannon has lived in Ireland for years. 

Great players like Bela Fleck and Rhiannon also  appear  The YouTube post is basically an introductory ad for a larger series that have a number of episodes from the banjo's roots to contemporary banjo playing. It is really designed as an educational tool for schools. It is nice

Edited by - writerrad on 09/06/2023 11:34:38

writerrad - Posted - 09/06/2023:  11:39:55

quote:No one says you hae to do anything but die.  You certainly could not have learned any of the information especially in the early segments of this series, in which I am a proud participant and adveriser, in 1976 or in 86, or 90 or even 2010.    So if that is what you go by,  you filled with WRONG information, and watching this will help you catch up.

As a banjo historian myself, I do not think anyone has to learn the history of the banjo to enjoy the banjo.   However, those who are interested in the history of the banjo should be complimented by digging deeper and spending time and effort and money to get the correct information about the history of it and making it available to people in such a comfortable and easy going form.

This product is mainly created for schools and other operations where people who want to know the real history of the banjo can find out the information as opposed to dead heads who think the wrong information they learned 50 or 60 years ago is relevant to anything but being wrong.

---

Originally posted by jojo25

Rhiannon Giddens is a very accomplished artist...of that there can be no doubt...but I am SO tired of hearing about how I need to learn the roots of the banjer...that was interesting the first time I heard it...like in 1976...and it stayed interesting until about the 8th time I heard it...I get it...really I do...but...for me...it is like learning...in 2nd grade...that 2+2=4...good to know...good to review in 3rd...and even 4th & 5th...grades. Rhiannon is a great vocalist...and a rather so-so banjo and fiddle player...and it seems that she just has to keep driving home this point...ok...but it makes me go away...if she wants to really dig deeper she should venture into why banjo players are the butt of so many nasty jokes...sorry...just had to get that off my chest...it has been bothering me for a long time

---

writerrad - Posted - 09/06/2023:  11:47:13

quote:The blurb referenced is an YouTube advertisement for a 7 or 8 part series on banjo history which involves not just what you term Rhiannon's generalizations, but involvement from start to finish and appearance by a number of leading historians of the banjo like myself, Kristina, Gaddy, and  Pete Ross, old time dance expert Phil Jamison. and a number of important players like Bela Flek as well as several banjo players and makers from Ireland.

Rhiannon reached out to several of us who do serious historial research on banjo history to both appear in the series and help define what would be there.

So if you watch the actual series there are not a lot of hazy generalizations, but quite concrete facts.   This is a multipart series designed to be used in education, not a performance or entertainment piece,

 

---

Originally posted by Tractor1

I am now a fan of Rhianna after watching--I have to take exception to some of her generalizations about bluegrass vs old time funkiness-- it depends on the individual involved imo --- Also I beg to differ on what she gave forth as a void in the knowledge of other players --- that is only --in a percentage ,not the total group- -But yes there were subjects unknown to me== tidbits that were quiet interesting such as the spiritual side ---the banjo in it's travels has been in more social circle and places of interest --than any of us--

The human race from the past is not my cross to bare and I had no part in some history getting left out --an idea that has came up a lot--

She has done a great job with her music for sure---And only a bit overly rhetorical--hey we all have that trait

---

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/06/2023:  12:01:08

no one was there when the first person tied a stick to a drum--not even the first generation of it-The tempered scale supposedly came from Greece  via the modes--

There was not a meeting by all the history writers to agree on--what to be sure and leave out of their books--thank heaven Rhiannon did not harp on that --which is part of some of the hard hitting rhetoric now days--

Even modern Africans probably have only the a generation or 2 back in their verbal histories--

as far as important people in the vid --that is a good camaraderie but not much new--

the internet archive has many old books concerning this--Evidently sugar was the money maker in the bahamas etc.---those old books cover it --even the slave conditions--but very little on their music

like I said I think Rhiannon did really well-

the way all races have acted since day one brings to mind shame --but unfortunately ==over the top hatefulness is still a money make

What I consider a generalization may not be the same as the next person--Our own knowledge base dictates that--

Is there a link  to the mentioned series--I think I have watched some of it

Edited by - Tractor1 on 09/06/2023 12:10:04

Joel Hooks - Posted - 09/06/2023:  12:17:54

I commend this recent trend and effort to explore early banjo history with solid supporting research.

That said, and not speaking specifically of this video, Giddens has made some dubious statements about banjo (or related) history before that has caused me to raise an eyebrow.

The one that stands out is her persistence to state as fact that "Dixie Land" was composed by the Snowden family and not Dan Emmett, referencing the book "Way Up North In Dixie" as the source. Now, I've read that book (and even read it a second time thinking I missed something) and could not find a single certainty about this claim. No evidence beyond a local tale and a cemetery headstone installed as a tourist draw for the 1976 bicentennial (if I recall). The closest connection the authors could find was a newspaper clipping about Emmett in a scrap box.

She takes this one step further by changing the name of "Genuine Negro Jig" to "Snowden's Jig" with the claim that the Snowden's taught it to Emmett.

Where is the solid research to prove that?

This sort of thing is no different that the "Sweeney added the 5th string". If someone with a strong voice says it enough, people believe it. And years later we are trying to correct it.

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/06/2023:  13:11:14

I was wrong --I was thinking of Ptolemy==he was Roman--one of the gifted no doubt--he was walking by the blacksmiths as they swung their hammers and noticed the harmony of certain ones-so he did in depth analysis and ruled out that the velocity of the swing as a cause--but found a doubling of the weight of one caused it--thus imo=the octave was born--not long after the 3rd and 5 th of the chord were ascertained--with certain weight ratios--the actual calling them chords came years probably centuries later .Trying to invent workable in depth music had to go thru the mode era etc.
I figure Ptolemy had perfect pitch--
But then that has nothing to do with blue notes or micro tones or rhythms--the banjo came from many places imo--

NotABanjoYoda - Posted - 09/06/2023:  14:02:52

All homo sapiens originated from the area broken off the super continent which is currently called Africa. Its kinda insulting to say we all grew up thinking a banjo was a hillbilly white guy instrument from the Apps. I learned in 3rd grade music class where the jo came from and was bombarded with images and cartoons of black people playing the banjo as a kid.

The false narritive was the premise. I agree very rhetorical with a few nice tidbits Ill forget in a week.

banjered - Posted - 09/07/2023:  08:24:42

"why banjo players are the butt of so many nasty jokes...sorry...just had to get that off my chest...it has been bothering me for a long time." Jojo

I've been wondering about this too, and also what happened after those two musicians and a banjo player walked into a bar? If we knew the answer to that, maybe we could finally figure out the why of banjo brunt jokes..... banjered

Dan Gellert - Posted - 09/09/2023:  14:06:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tractor1

I was wrong --I was thinking of Ptolemy==he was Roman--one of the gifted no doubt--he was walking by the blacksmiths as they swung their hammers and noticed the harmony of certain ones-so he did in depth analysis and ruled out that the velocity of the swing as a cause--but found a doubling of the weight of one caused it--thus imo=the octave was born--not long after the 3rd and 5 th of the chord were ascertained--with certain weight ratios--the actual calling them chords came years probably centuries later .Trying to invent workable in depth music had to go thru the mode era etc.

I figure Ptolemy had perfect pitch--

But then that has nothing to do with blue notes or micro tones or rhythms--the banjo came from many places imo--

---

I think you mean Pythagoras, not Ptolemy, but whoever it was, he didn't invent any kind of music, just recognized and described some of the basic relationships which exist between music and physics/arithmetic.  The octave, third and fifth weren't invented by anybody; they are inherent in nature.  For all of the differences you can find among the world's diverse musical cultures, the structure of melody and harmony has the same foundation in all of them-- the harmonic series.

Everybody uses the pentatonic major scale.  That's not because of alien contact, or some lost global culture like Atlantis or Lemuria.  It's because our sense of hearing recognizes and assigns meaning to the ratios of vibration rates between sounds, and the simpler the ratio, the more consonant an interval sounds to us.  

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/09/2023:  14:56:07

my goodness guilty as charged ha ha---on Pythagoras
yes the most perfect harmony --because the waves are in phase more often--- one of the few explainable science facts in music---I ran across the fact that the cochlea of the ear divides it's messages to the brain in channels that change each octave --which would be the same as twice as fast .So maybe that is why we like it.
I wonder why long drywall screws sound like a sad baby ,which is common knowledge --or why minor chords are sad====Science has a lot of catching up to do

ObsidianSpike - Posted - 09/09/2023:  16:58:57

This thread has gone some awfully strange places very quickly. I feel like I'm looking at a community Rohrschach test, so many branching reactions...



I appreciate Rhiannon for what she does. Her existence as a popular musician alone cuts down many nasty jokes made about banjo players already... it's certainly made my time of it easier.

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/09/2023:  17:12:48

I didn;t figure it was it was strange talking about banjo history and morphing off into music history- a necessary ingredient -I still don't think it was strange --but certainly to each their own

ObsidianSpike - Posted - 09/09/2023:  17:26:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by jojo25

Rhiannon Giddens is a very accomplished artist...of that there can be no doubt...but I am SO tired of hearing about how I need to learn the roots of the banjer...that was interesting the first time I heard it...like in 1976...and it stayed interesting until about the 8th time I heard it...I get it...really I do...but...for me...it is like learning...in 2nd grade...that 2+2=4...good to know...good to review in 3rd...and even 4th & 5th...grades.

---

I think 2+2=4 is the perfect metaphor for this. You may have learned it in first grade, you may have intuitively understood that statement even before then, but you could get all the way to grad school before learning how to justify 2+2=4 rigorously. Russell and Whitehead, two of the brightest mathematicians and philosophers to live, thought they could justify it with a basic series of pure logical statements back in 1901. 12 years, four books, and one famous logical paradox later they were forced to admit intellectual exhaustion, that they couldn't do it the way they had tried their hardest to do. But in the process they expanded our collective understanding of math, logic and the limits of both considerably.

There are great depths of insight beneath nearly every surface level truth in our world. We just have to care to dive in.

ObsidianSpike - Posted - 09/09/2023:  17:33:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tractor1

I didn;t figure it was it was strange talking about banjo history and morphing off into music history- a necessary ingredient -I still don't think it was strange --but certainly to each their own

---

No offense intended Tom, "strange" and "normal" alike aren't really value judgements on my part.

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/09/2023:  17:42:25

you lost me --a little necessary math--is all I ever got excited about--I always admired those algebra teachers that started smiling when a new equation appeared --I do find trig and geometry of interest for their describing abilities

writerrad - Posted - 09/14/2023:  17:36:15

quote:No  there are people in Europe, Africa, the Caribbean, the USA, across the Caribbean, and in Latin America as well as Asia who have invested their lives in the history of the banjo.

A banjo is not a drum on a stick, no one who studies banjos thinks that is true about banjos and that is not how it is defined. 

For one thing all banjos have flat or flat radiused fingerboards, unlike all lutes say from West Africa.  No one would define even the earliest banjos we have descriptions of as a drum on a stick.  

The care and definition and work that the earliest banjos we know of have, indicate quite a different idea than you think, so perhaps you might want to see this series

A drum on a stick might describe a lute, in fact it might describe any number of lutes in Africa, Asia, and Europe, but it does not describe a banjo whatsoever.

So you are entitled to your ignorance.  I firmly believe to enjoy the banjo you can be as ignorant as Tractor1 is and as dismissive of those who care about its history as Tractor1 is,  You can even not know what a banjo is as long as you can pick it.

But do not get angry at those of us who care about the history of the instrument or its history.   

I have attached a picture of myself in the Tropical Museum in Amsterdam a couple years ago with the Stedman Banjo from Surinam which is the oldest banjo that we know of.  It was collected sometime in the 1700s.  What struck me even after viewing pictures of it for decades and working with banjo makers, banjo scholars, and others who had studied it intimately for decades is its magnificence, and the amount of investment for the enslaved community in 1700s Surinam to have created something of this level of beauty, requiring the labor it did, particulary given that the spiritual activities it was associated with were not what the Dutch colonial masters were encouraging.  It is not a drum on a stick.

 

---

Originally posted by Tractor1

no one was there when the first person tied a stick to a drum--not even the first generation of it-The tempered scale supposedly came from Greece  via the modes--

There was not a meeting by all the history writers to agree on--what to be sure and leave out of their books--thank heaven Rhiannon did not harp on that --which is part of some of the hard hitting rhetoric now days--

Even modern Africans probably have only the a generation or 2 back in their verbal histories--

as far as important people in the vid --that is a good camaraderie but not much new--

the internet archive has many old books concerning this--Evidently sugar was the money maker in the bahamas etc.---those old books cover it --even the slave conditions--but very little on their music

like I said I think Rhiannon did really well-

the way all races have acted since day one brings to mind shame --but unfortunately ==over the top hatefulness is still a money make

What I consider a generalization may not be the same as the next person--Our own knowledge base dictates that--

Is there a link  to the mentioned series--I think I have watched some of it

---

Edited by - writerrad on 09/14/2023 17:47:10

 

writerrad - Posted - 09/14/2023:  18:34:50

quote:I quite agree with you Joel about that book.  Rhiannon is not an historian but an entertainer.   Even though I participated in this project and appear in several segments there are places where she does not consult or rely on banjo historians but the popular scuttlebutt, such as the idea she advances that the five-string banjo  (but really the banjo) lost its place in Black music due to urbanization as banjo playing is a country skill toward the end.  

The idea of authorship that seems to be advanced in the book  about Emmett and Dixie certainly is not one the understanding of authorship as it was understood in the 1830s or 40s or 50s by anyone African American, European American, or Martian American.   It can be further argued that Emmett's ideas about the tune including those that are hardly seen as progressive today and his setting of the tune in the context of the blackface minstrel show he designed it for which led to its success and being known, were quite responsible for its success.   

The center of banjo development passed from rural creators to the designers of five string and other banjos  really by the 1840s.  There is no indication that "traditional" banjoists anywhere, Black, white or green, urban or rural or in space,  did anything but welcome the innovations that the commercial banjo making industry introduced starting with the frame or hoop headed banjo down to the might creations of David Day and those of Loar,  I know a lot of funny stories I will tell you whenever we meet about from the 60s on where Old Time Music revivalists tried to foist  gourd banjos or  "minstrel" banjos on folk banjoists from the South African American and white, and were rejected.

The bulk of the series where people like Pete Ross, Kristina Gaddy,  Greg Adams,  Bela Flek,  Don Vappie, and my not so humble self talk do center on the written record.    I did suggest that Rhiannon reach out to you and include you among those interviewed for the series, but to no avail.

I sometimes get entirely cynical about the use of trying to clarify banjo history or relavent music history in the face of the ideological needs of people to believe certain things that are not true.  This is why I delight in your desire to pay attention to the details.

Thanks

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I commend this recent trend and effort to explore early banjo history with solid supporting research.



That said, and not speaking specifically of this video, Giddens has made some dubious statements about banjo (or related) history before that has caused me to raise an eyebrow.



The one that stands out is her persistence to state as fact that "Dixie Land" was composed by the Snowden family and not Dan Emmett, referencing the book "Way Up North In Dixie" as the source. Now, I've read that book (and even read it a second time thinking I missed something) and could not find a single certainty about this claim. No evidence beyond a local tale and a cemetery headstone installed as a tourist draw for the 1976 bicentennial (if I recall). The closest connection the authors could find was a newspaper clipping about Emmett in a scrap box.



She takes this one step further by changing the name of "Genuine Negro Jig" to "Snowden's Jig" with the claim that the Snowden's taught it to Emmett.



Where is the solid research to prove that?



This sort of thing is no different that the "Sweeney added the 5th string". If someone with a strong voice says it enough, people believe it. And years later we are trying to correct it.

---

writerrad - Posted - 09/14/2023:  18:40:34

quote:  Considering that Rhiannon whom I have known now about 22 years, is a classically trained musician with degrees in both violin and voice from the Oberlin Conservatory and has incidentally just produced a prize winning opera, that she still feels close to and pays attention to the five string banjo and the fiddle in old time and black music and we scholars who work on this, this a treasure.  LOL, as one of the banjo scholars she approached for advice and to appear in the film,  I am grateful someone that many people have heard of has spent a bunch of money to get a number of us together, if only virtually (this was filmed at what I considered the height of Covid) for most of us, and for us to say what we know is quite important.

---

Originally posted by ObsidianSpike

This thread has gone some awfully strange places very quickly. I feel like I'm looking at a community Rohrschach test, so many branching reactions...



I appreciate Rhiannon for what she does. Her existence as a popular musician alone cuts down many nasty jokes made about banjo players already... it's certainly made my time of it easier.

---

Edited by - writerrad on 09/14/2023 18:41:38

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/14/2023:  20:28:01

you are reading thoughts that I didn't think nor said--but a man that seems to feel that he knows what all folks that studies banjo thinks --probably would have no problem with --mine either--I didn't say a banjo was a drum on a stick --As far as I know and have read=== the stick getting flattened, happened in the sugar plantations--

Does it make you feel good to call me ignorant? Do you think I stumbled across those pictures I posted in some first grade book//

You are misplacing the reason for the anger you are accusing me of--

No one was there when the drum was put on a stick -I stand by that----

no one knows who flattened the stick nor who played the first tempered major scale --on said flattened stick--but yes history  --gives us some locations and time frames

as far as getting to go to europe and getting to visit with such great artifacts--going out west a couple of times is about all this ignorant  blue collar could afford

Edited by - Tractor1 on 09/14/2023 20:42:06

 

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/15/2023:  06:24:06

I doubt we have a figure on how many folks contributed to building that stedman banjo that STRUCK you --but the whole enslaved community--probably had the shop crowded--but it paints a useful picture --as does that non encouraging group of Dutch masters .a useful black and white picture for some --some put their beans on the table --with such pictures--
that world really gets rehashed too much imo--
I really don't have any more time to waste on this --so when you come back --I will ignore unless you start being friendly with something of interest

Joel Hooks - Posted - 09/15/2023:  06:46:53

writerrad , Hi Tony, nope, she did not reach out to me. On all of the videos I've seen, or interviews I've read with her, she seems to specifically and consciously ignore what we now call the "classic era". Obviously I do not know that this is true, but she seems to bounce right around it.

Africa to slaves to minstrelsy to old time. Seems disingenuous to exclude 50/60+ years of a world wide phenomena and the very reason the banjo in the form that we know it exists today.

But I suppose it is the same catch that the folklorists ran into, it does not fit the narrative they were trying to tell (or sell). So redact it.

writerrad - Posted - 09/15/2023:  10:53:50

Well, this short cutting around this stuff is not exactly the exclusive error of Rhiannon but seems absolutely widespread among proponents of folk, and bluegrass banjo, black white and blue. It can be pretty widespread among old time music people, and bluegrassers. Actually, the group that even do it as well as your misstatement of the common error "Africa to slaves to minstrelsy to old time" are really the advanced ones.

I think removing 60 years is a minimization of what we are talking about, more like minimizing 100 years, more like 150 years of show business, parlor, and popular music banjo, as well the residual impact of the pick played banjo.

The massive ignorance of banjo history and what in many ways has been decisive in banjo history is simply ignored. Part of it has the anti-historical and unscientific folky idea that playing or researching the music is an attempt to get back to the "true folk roots" and everything in the way is an obstacle.

This attitude seems to be directly the opposite of the approaches of most actual folk banjoists that I know of. Traditional banjoists seemed to welcome the arrival of the advances in banjo manufacture and design that began in the late 1830s and continue to this day. Most socalled purists and deniers of the centrality of parlor, show business, bluegrass, and for that matter jazz and ragtime tenor and plectrum banjo play banjos that are the product of the success of these musics and the way banjo designers and manufacturers organized to meet the needs of such music.

I very firmly believe we would not be here doing this today, and nothing like Banjo Hangout or the magnificent Vega, Fairbanks, and for that matter Gold Tone and Recording King banjos would have existed without the decisive historical stuff that they try to omit.

My own work which I thought would take me to the "true folk roots" has concentrated on the importance of show business, professional, and even parlor banjo just among African American banjoists, because of the centrality of this to real history .

LOL, I sometimes feel like I get more rationality arguing about the NFL with my buddies than trying to advance these truths about banjo history.

Banjovially

MRichaud - Posted - 09/16/2023:  03:31:17

Well, in the spirit of banjoviality (Thanks for the word, Tony!), in my original post I asked what time it is. Now I know how to build the watch!

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/16/2023:  04:49:29

you asked for nothing---I don't know for sure what you are hinting at here-----I enjoyed getting introduced to the Rihanna world---thanks---

Edited by - Tractor1 on 09/16/2023 04:58:55

MRichaud - Posted - 09/16/2023:  05:05:17

Wasn't hinting at anything. Just found it interesting. And my comment about the watch was tongue-in-cheek.

Tractor1 - Posted - 09/16/2023:  05:19:14

cool thanks
I find how the blues came to be and how boogie --woogie morphed into early rock about as lost in history -- that throwing in the 6 and flatted seven --and micro tones from 2 to 4--along with standard 3 chord with a turnaround stuff --that rocked the world also

writerrad - Posted - 10/16/2023:  13:23:51

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tractor1

I was wrong --I was thinking of Ptolemy==he was Roman-

---

Ptolemy was a Greek who lived in Alexandria which was and remains in Egypt/

Your mastery of the facts or concern for it could use some improvement.  When we work on history such as in this series, we did not engage in this kind of sloppiness.

writerrad - Posted - 10/16/2023:  13:25:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by MRichaud

Well, in the spirit of banjoviality (Thanks for the word, Tony!), in my original post I asked what time it is. Now I know how to build the watch!

---

banjovially comes from the great Dr. Robert Winans, the great banjo historian as well as scholar of American literature  

Tractor1 - Posted - 10/16/2023:  14:18:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by writerrad

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tractor1

I was wrong --I was thinking of Ptolemy==he was Roman-

---

Ptolemy was a Greek who lived in Alexandria which was and remains in Egypt/

Your mastery of the facts or concern for it could use some improvement.  When we work on history such as in this series, we did not engage in this kind of sloppiness.

you might want to read this --Tony---none of us are beyond this needing to improve imo--

---

Edited by - Tractor1 on 10/16/2023 14:23:58

 

Tractor1 - Posted - 10/16/2023:  14:26:59

the point that I found fascinating --was the discovery of the properties --that produced harmonics and thus years later --chords

Edited by - Tractor1 on 10/16/2023 14:28:16

Tractor1 - Posted - 10/16/2023:  15:32:28

I have been called ignorant--I have been called sloppy---I made clear the reasons for the accusations were wrong-- but next time -I might just say-- no response because of a personality conflict--not sayin i am better or worse--It just is a waste of time that I could use for more things --that are gratifying to me--