Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/391896
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/27/2023: 13:41:30
Here's my choice for the banjohangout totw on 28th July 2023. "Wild Hog in the Woods." Please let me know anything you know about this, upload your versions, let's hear the lyrics too? I might sing a version and upload it soon if I have time.
It has been chosen before, but back in 2010, so I hope no-one minds a revisit.
Comprehensive history of this song can be found here: mainlynorfolk.info/lloyd/songs...onel.html
It's a dark folk tale with deep roots and apparently with versions across several countries in Northern Europe. (Just like the tale of Gelert the faithful hound - Google will explain.) Apparently folk tales did this. And folk tales to music are ballads, right?
Anyway, the roots appear to be traceable back to a poem called Sir Eglamour of Artois, probably written around 1350. The knight in question morphs and changes through time, having lots of names including Sir Lionel, Bold Sir Rylas, Bangum the Boar Slayer, Sir Egrabell, Sir Eglamore, Rackabello… the list goes on.
As a musical ballad it appears in written form first in 1850s, in the West Midlands of England. That "Bangum" name has a real West Midlands dialect ring to it to my reading. Lonesome Luke and his Farm Boys give the first recorded version in USA in 1931. Mainly Norfolk says Luke and Ira Decker were from Richmond, Indiana. (A city better known for jazz at that time?)
There are versions which appear to be mixolydian or even in a straight major key, (Furrow Collective below) and there are versions which to my ear are in straight minor keys. (Fuzzy Mountain String Band).
I may have this described wrongly, I'm just going by ear ...
My versions at the bottom are in double C (from the taterjoes tab)
And in Sawmill tuning (capo 2nd fret) which I worked out by ear to the Fuzzy Mountain String Band.
Note that this is a song, so is structured ABAB - verse chorus verse chorus.
Lonesome Luke and his Farm Boys:
youtu.be/Di4pAuqpGi8?si=XJkWkF-TzL0y-vNw
Walt Koken youtu.be/-67DZPTmw3Y?si=I80WNT5keCS5nh5l
Fuzzy Mountain String Band youtu.be/kQicvEyyxAI?si=5trNqzPPFFHMay1m
The Furrow Collective
youtu.be/2uD9YCQKKdk?si=qV3b3ac_mTmOtGkh
Taterjoes tab taterjoes.com/Warehouse/Banjo/...Woods.pdf
My version in Sawmill
youtu.be/M2uJ1P7aJyo
My version in Double C
youtu.be/lkagX_LnjT4
Edited by - Andyrhydycreuau on 07/28/2023 23:57:59
Bill Rogers - Posted - 07/27/2023: 14:58:18
Andy—The screening software for your versions does not work. No matter how many different words I type in, it continues only to put up another one. I’m using an up-to-date version of iOS 16.5 on a 9th gen. iPad.
BobTheGambler - Posted - 07/27/2023: 16:01:10
The Lonesome Luke 78 you cited is a different tune entirely, a real good fiddle breakdown in F!
As far as this other melody/song goes, I'm partial to the Taylor Kimble version:
youtu.be/YOZC6pMCBvg
Edited by - BobTheGambler on 07/27/2023 16:02:25
banjered - Posted - 07/27/2023: 16:27:28
I've been playing/singing Wild Hog for quite a while now. One of the great frustrations in my life is not having the know-how to post either audio or video to share music here with folks. I know about 200 old time fiddle tunes and 3X that number of folk songs. I could have been sharing music for a dozen plus years here on BHO but have never made the transition to digital. I have a 2018 Mac computer. A couple people tried to help me out but almost immediately use computer terms that I have no idea what they mean. I don't even know how to find out how you and others have figured all this posting out? I take out my digital musical frustration out at the local farmer's market where I make ones and ones of dollars (ha!) without getting arrested amazingly enough. WH is a great song to scare the kids late at night around a camp fire. Carry on! banjered
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/27/2023: 23:54:44
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers
Andy—The screening software for your versions does not work. No matter how many different words I type in, it continues only to put up another one. I’m using an up-to-date version of iOS 16.5 on a 9th gen. iPad.
Thanks Bill,
I'm glad you spotted the Walt Koken link was wrong. His banjo playing is lovely and clear.
I'm not sure what the screening software is or what it does. These were filmed and uploaded from an Android phone, but that doesn't usually make a difference? My versions work and play fine from this end. Don't know what else to suggest?
Andy
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/28/2023: 00:02:38
quote:
Originally posted by BobTheGambler
The Lonesome Luke 78 you cited is a different tune entirely, a real good fiddle breakdown in F!
As far as this other melody/song goes, I'm partial to the Taylor Kimble version:
youtu.be/YOZC6pMCBvg
Thanks for the Taylor Kimble version, that's lovely.
The Lonesome Luke tune is different, but the phrasing to my ear sounds related. That's the one that sounds like it's in a straight major key. But I haven't sat and broken it down or worked out what they are playing more closely.
I wonder if they changed the key to make it sound more "mainstream" for the recording? Can anyone shed any light?
gentrixuk - Posted - 07/28/2023: 02:57:08
Great choice Andy! I'm very familiar with the Furrow Collective version. In their sleeve notes, they say that they learnt it from a recording of the Virginia singer Eunice Yeatts McAlexander. I've also heard the excellent guitar version called "The Jovial Hunter of Bromsgrove" by Jon Wilks - its a different tune, but the same basic story, and explicitly locates the action taking place in the English Midlands.
I can see your videos ok - YouTube sometimes gets a bit fussy allowing access to videos across different regions if they're worried about copyright - maybe they are picking up the title as having been included in recent commercial releases. If its an ongoing problem you could upload the video direct to the Hangout.
carlb - Posted - 07/28/2023: 04:49:12
quote:
Originally posted by banjered
WH is a great song to scare the kids late at night around a camp fire. Carry on! banjered
While looking through a book on Child Ballads, I found the following last verse in one of the versions, which I use when singing for kids.
We fought it that wild hog through day
Till that wild hog run away
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/28/2023: 09:24:16
quote:
Originally posted by carlb
quote:
Originally posted by banjered
WH is a great song to scare the kids late at night around a camp fire. Carry on! banjered
While looking through a book on Child Ballads, I found the following last verse in one of the versions, which I use when singing for kids.
We fought it that wild hog through day
Till that wild hog run away
Thanks Carl,
This has so many different versions of lyrics telling the same story. I've not seen that one before though. Thanks for sharing!
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/28/2023: 09:28:02
quote:
Originally posted by gentrixuk
Great choice Andy! I'm very familiar with the Furrow Collective version. In their sleeve notes, they say that they learnt it from a recording of the Virginia singer Eunice Yeatts McAlexander. I've also heard the excellent guitar version called "The Jovial Hunter of Bromsgrove" by Jon Wilks - its a different tune, but the same basic story, and explicitly locates the action taking place in the English Midlands.
I can see your videos ok - YouTube sometimes gets a bit fussy allowing access to videos across different regions if they're worried about copyright - maybe they are picking up the title as having been included in recent commercial releases. If its an ongoing problem you could upload the video direct to the Hangout.
Thanks Mark, it's a lovely tune to play, and the dark old lyrics and ancient pedigree add even more.
I didn't know you could upload direct to Hangout, I'll explore a bit more!
banjered - Posted - 07/28/2023: 12:32:38
In the old Bangum version I do he ends up slaying the hog but in some Europe versions he not only slays the hog but also the hog's owner, a witch of whom he whips out his sword and splits her head down to her shoulders. Just another warm, fuzzy tale to help the kids sleep well..... Ha! banjered
JanetB - Posted - 07/28/2023: 14:00:24
Your two versions are good, Andy, and you bring out the modal feel. I really appreciate your tune choices on TOTW. After hearing Walt and Claire in the link above and noting their source, Taylor Kimble, I found it in their book and on Slippery Hill, included as a rather squirrelly A modal tune: Virginia fiddler Taylor Kimble (1892-1979). I worked it out in open G tuning. Any tune in the Milliner-Koken Collection of American Fiddle Tunes. with its hundreds and hundreds of notated tunes, is worth pursuing. Plus they're all on the Slippery Hill site, worth donating to.
Edited by - JanetB on 07/28/2023 14:02:03
roadkingjimmy - Posted - 07/28/2023: 15:36:46
Andrew,love your sawmill version of this tune and Janet’s version is amazing….thanks :)
JanetB - Posted - 07/28/2023: 16:19:50
After listening again to Walt and Claire and then to Taylor Kimble on the Slippery Hill site, I thought to try again with a more true A modal sound. Capoing to the second fret and changing the 4th fret fourth string note to the 3rd fret actually makes more sense if this is to be a modal tune. The Kimble fiddle seems to be alternating between a G and G# note or somewhere in between and at first I played just the G#. This recording plays just the lower note, the G, and the tuning is still in an open chord, not in sawmill tuning. I actually think of this mode as being mixolydian where the accompanying chords would include a G chord -- the VII chord. Do you have a recording preference between the two uploaded here and in the above post?
I may try adding chords next.
Edited by - JanetB on 07/28/2023 16:22:48
Mtngoat - Posted - 07/28/2023: 16:58:31
Andrew, thanks for a great tune and write up. The source information makes interesting reading.
Janet, I like the second version. It sounds more authentic to my ear.
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/29/2023: 06:03:11
quote:
Originally posted by banjered
In the old Bangum version I do he ends up slaying the hog but in some Europe versions he not only slays the hog but also the hog's owner, a witch of whom he whips out his sword and splits her head down to her shoulders. Just another warm, fuzzy tale to help the kids sleep well..... Ha! banjered
Now that is a wee bit gruesome even for me to sleep well!
BobTheGambler - Posted - 07/29/2023: 06:11:16
quote:
Originally posted by Andyrhydycreuau
quote:
Originally posted by BobTheGambler
The Lonesome Luke 78 you cited is a different tune entirely, a real good fiddle breakdown in F!
As far as this other melody/song goes, I'm partial to the Taylor Kimble version:
youtu.be/YOZC6pMCBvg
Thanks for the Taylor Kimble version, that's lovely.
The Lonesome Luke tune is different, but the phrasing to my ear sounds related. That's the one that sounds like it's in a straight major key. But I haven't sat and broken it down or worked out what they are playing more closely.
I wonder if they changed the key to make it sound more "mainstream" for the recording? Can anyone shed any light?
I don't really hear any relationship between the melodies. I think its a case of the old fiddle tune rule: "one name many tunes, one tune many names." Wild Hog In The Red Brush was another floater name attached to a few different melodies with no relationship to the "old bangum" family of tunes and ballads.
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/29/2023: 08:33:40
quote:
Originally posted by banjered
The version I do is loosely based on Dwight Diller's youtube.com/watch?v=uz6rsO4Cqqw A little slower, some different words. Viva variety! banjered
That is a nice version for sure. Dwight Diller knew how to make a tune jump, for sure!
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/29/2023: 08:39:26
@bobthegambler yes, tunes get lots of names, stands to reason some get the same name! All the more interesting I guess.
Still, the first phrases in that Lonesome Luke version sound like the first phrases in the Furrow Collective one. Not the same, but of a kin. Maybe I'm imagining it!
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/29/2023: 08:42:02
quote:
Originally posted by roadkingjimmy
Andrew,love your sawmill version of this tune and Janet’s version is amazing….thanks :)
Thanks! Glad you like it. It's a fun tune and song!
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/29/2023: 08:45:30
@janetburton both versions are lovely. They have a kind of mediaeval English / lute type feel. If you pushed me to choose I think I would say I prefer the A Modal too. Thanks for sharing them both!
Brooklynbanjoboy - Posted - 07/29/2023: 14:04:29
I'll add another Dwight Diller link to that tune, from his BandCamp site:
dwightdilleranddavidnemec.band.../wild-hog
At that link, Dwight has a bit of a story about him teaching that tune to elementary school kids in his part of West Virginia during a brief time as a substitute teacher.
Andyrhydycreuau - Posted - 07/30/2023: 00:29:43
quote:
Originally posted by Brooklynbanjoboy
I'll add another Dwight Diller link to that tune, from his BandCamp site:
dwightdilleranddavidnemec.band.../wild-hog
At that link, Dwight has a bit of a story about him teaching that tune to elementary school kids in his part of West Virginia during a brief time as a substitute teacher.
Really interesting. I used to teach the same level, but here in the UK. This was before I played banjo though.
A similar experience for me was reading the original "Pinocchio" (English translation.....!) which is really gruesomely violent. And Grimm's Fairy Tales too. I had a class of 7 and 8 year olds, and they loved this visceral stuff.
And I know politics is not allowed, but we still have, in lots of areas of the Uk, schools who A, B, C, and even D group the children. Though no political parties over here seem to understand as well as Dwight how wrong this is!
