Jelle - Posted - 01/16/2023:  14:36:38

Hello everyone,

I was wondering which event the title of this tune implies.
Napoleon famously crossed the Alps (and thus the Rhine) in 1800, to reconquer territory in Italy.
However, 'crossing a river' is often used to symbolize a moment of no return for famous generals. Think of Caesar crossing the Rubicon and Washington crossing the Delaware; they both took a huge military gamble of which the outcome was uncertain.
For that reason it would make more sense to me if the tune is about Napoleon's campaign to Russia 1812.

However, Washington and Caesar both accomplished great victories after their crossings, Napoleon didn't in 1812. What do you guys think; is the tune about the campaign of 1800 or 1812?

Cheers
Jelle

talljoey - Posted - 01/16/2023:  15:07:57

I can’t answer your question, but there is quite a thread on this forum from 2009 you might enjoy reading. Alas, I am not savvy enough to paste it here, perhaps another member would do the honors.

Edited by - talljoey on 01/16/2023 15:08:28

tdennis - Posted - 01/16/2023:  15:32:13

The song lyrics clearly state this was about the incursion into Russia. The song doesn't imply anything other than the movement through Moscow.  

Edited by - tdennis on 01/16/2023 15:35:50

Lew H - Posted - 01/16/2023:  17:11:59

There are lyrics? I must look them up! I assume the tune is a recent creation, but I don't really know. Anybody have information on that?

Bob Buckingham - Posted - 01/16/2023:  17:44:47

Apparently there are:

Bonaparte said "Men, Advance!
Bring glory back to France
And carry out my clever, bold design
For there's land and riches too
And it's waiting there for you
A thousand miles East across the Rhine"

THE SKY WAS ROYAL BLUE
AND THE TRICOLOR FLEW
WITH FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND SOLDIERS MARCHING FINE
NOT A SINGLE DOUBT HAD HE
CONVINCED OF VICTORY
AS HE LEAD HIS MIGHTY LEGION 'CROSS THE RHINE

With his hand inside his vest
His Army surged in from the West
While the foe in Moscow calmly bided time
Instead of fight, they'd first retreat
For later French defeat
And draw them ever further 'cross the Rhine

CHORUS

His Grand Armee staggered from the East
With a host of men deceased
Scattered thru the snows that left them blind
And they cursed that cloudless day
When he lead them all astray
When he led them to their doom across the Rhine

CHORUS


source: lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks...rics.html

brettzke - Posted - 01/16/2023:  18:39:04

I may be wrong here but, seems as though I first learned this tune as "The Caledonia March" or "The New Caledonia March" years before I heard it called "B....crossing The Rhine".
Might it have had something to do with the Celts (Scots, Irish, etc.) fascination with Bonaparte moving north and defeating the British, ultimately freeing them?
Just a thought...?

Lew H - Posted - 01/16/2023:  18:50:37

FYI, A friend and I both think the lyrics are wretched. Maybe that's why BCTR is mostly known as an instrumental tune.

mike gregory - Posted - 01/16/2023:  19:47:26

Here's an old Polaroid of "Bonaparte Crossing the Street"

Bonaparte Crossing ....

 

banjukebox - Posted - 01/16/2023:  22:31:27

There are a lot of Bonaparte/Napolean tunes out there.
My favorite is Bonaparte Crossing the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel (Bob Zentz)

Bill Rogers - Posted - 01/16/2023:  23:51:01

My favorite is Bonaparte Crossing the Rocky Mountains, correctly, The Battle of Waterloo, and aka, Bell’s March. A tune appropriated and then renamed.



The Russians and the hard winter aren’t what destroyed Napoleon’s army. Rather it was typhus, a scourge no longer with us.

slate.com/technology/2012/12/n...fire.html

Don Borchelt - Posted - 01/17/2023:  06:48:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jelle

Hello everyone,



I was wondering which event the title of this tune implies.

Napoleon famously crossed the Alps (and thus the Rhine) in 1800, to reconquer territory in Italy.

However, 'crossing a river' is often used to symbolize a moment of no return for famous generals. Think of Caesar crossing the Rubicon and Washington crossing the Delaware; they both took a huge military gamble of which the outcome was uncertain.

For that reason it would make more sense to me if the tune is about Napoleon's campaign to Russia 1812.



However, Washington and Caesar both accomplished great victories after their crossings, Napoleon didn't in 1812. What do you guys think; is the tune about the campaign of 1800 or 1812?



Cheers

Jelle

---

Well, in 1800, Napoleon did cross the southern Alps in what is now the Piedmont, in order to invade Italy and attack Milan.  But he didn't cross the Rhine in that campaign.  In 1812, Napoleon assembled his army for the Russian invasion in western Poland, and then crossed the Neman River to invade Russia.  So while Napoleon may have crossed the Rhine, the multi-national invasion force he assembled did not.  However, he did cross the Rhine with his army in 1805, in order to invade Austria and fight the battle of Austerlitz, his great victory over Austrian and Prussian forces.  



As for the tune title, the various Bonaparte titles, including Bonaparte's Retreat, Napoleon Crossing the Rhine, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine, Bonaparte Crossing the Alps, Bonaparte's March, etc., are often used interchangeably by fiddlers.  The tune usually associated with Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine is different from the one usually called Napoleon Crossing the Rhine, which is the usually the same as Napoleon Crossing the Alps.  The one I generally hear called Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine is a tune pretty much of American origin, and the fiddlers back in the day probably had an imperfect knowledge of Napoleon's military history, in those dark centuries before Wikipedia.  



 

Edited by - Don Borchelt on 01/17/2023 07:00:29