finger-picker - Posted - 11/27/2022:  19:01:35

Passing tones is what I think they are. Still, is there some algorithm Scruggs used to determine 3(2)-3(3) slides as superior to 4(2)-4(3) slides, etc. ?

rcc56 - Posted - 11/27/2022:  21:32:20

Upward slides work better and sound clearer on the banjo than downward slides.



I've got a master's degree in music and am qualified to teach music theory in any conservatory, and am known to make the following rather outrageous and controversial statement: "All music is the same."



When Muddy Waters did it, someone dubbed the term "blue notes" to the technique.

When Mozart did it, the European theorists called it "chromatic appogiatura."

American jazz musicians call it a "smear."



The Chinese were doing it 2000 years ago on their dulcimers and zithers, but I don't know what their word is.

Neither do I know what word Indian musicians use, and they've been doing it for centuries, nor do I know what Brazilian choro players call it.

And so on.



Bending up, "unbending" down, and upward and downward slurs all give just another color to music. Find what works best on your instrument of choice and enjoy.

Edited by - rcc56 on 11/27/2022 21:35:08

BEEFUS - Posted - 11/28/2022:  05:36:59

It's called a minor 3rd! A powerful interval, adds bluesy flavor to a tune.

BEEFUS
Yeah! It are BEEFUS!

RioStat - Posted - 11/28/2022:  05:41:17

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

Passing tones is what I think they are. Still, is there some algorithm Scruggs used to determine 3(2)-3(3) slides as superior to 4(2)-4(3) slides, etc. ?

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 Never thought i'd see "Earl Scruggs" and "algorithm" used in the same sentence !   

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/28/2022:  06:21:13

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

Passing tones is what I think they are. Still, is there some algorithm Scruggs used to determine 3(2)-3(3) slides as superior to 4(2)-4(3) slides, etc. ?

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Yes, passing tones.



But what do you mean by "superior to"? A slide on the fourth string from fret 2 to fret 3 gives you different notes from a slide on the third string. They sound different, and accomplish different things musically. It's not like you can say one is superior to the other.

Edited by - Ira Gitlin on 11/28/2022 06:21:35

Old Hickory - Posted - 11/28/2022:  06:27:23

Same note, different name, but I think in this context it's more musically appropriate to call it B-flat.

RB3 - Posted - 11/28/2022:  06:33:41

I wonder if you could provide a bit more explanation of what you're referring to with your use of: "3(2)-3(3)" and "4(2)-4(3)"?

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/28/2022:  06:53:11

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

Same note, different name, but I think in this context it's more musically appropriate to call it B-flat.

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To me, it depends on the context. It that not is a destination, I'd call it a B-flat, and think of it as a blue note or flatted third. If it's a passing note from A to B-natural, I'd call it an A-sharp, and think of it as a stepping stone on the way to the major third. In addition, if you're using standard notation (yeah, yeah--not an issue for most banjo players, I recognize) the sequence A-A#-B is slightly less confusing to read than A-Bb-B.

finger-picker - Posted - 11/28/2022:  08:11:37

Blue note, minor third, passing tone, not unique to banjos alone - all makes sense, thanks!

The 4(2)-4(3) tidbit - I was thinking in terms of the common alternating or forward rolls that begin on [3(2) and slide up to 3(3)] (3215/3251, etc.) and speculated why not 4(2) E to 4(3) F as a similar version? I imagine it has something to do with the tonic vs. submediant degrees of the scale and how A#/Bb relates compared with F.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/28/2022:  09:13:38

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

The 4(2)-4(3) tidbit - I was thinking in terms of the common alternating or forward rolls that begin on [3(2) and slide up to 3(3)] (3215/3251, etc.) and speculated why not 4(2) E to 4(3) F as a similar version? I imagine it has something to do with the tonic vs. submediant degrees of the scale and how A#/Bb relates compared with F.

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That E-F-G thing could happen--I'm sure I do it myself from time to time--but perhaps a closer analogy to the 3rd string slide might be F-F#, followed by open G. In that case, as with the 3rd string slide, you get a three-note ascending chromatic sequence, with the third note played on an open string.

davidppp - Posted - 11/28/2022:  11:54:18

quote:

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Originally posted by rcc56

Upward slides work better and sound clearer on the banjo than downward slides.



I've got a master's degree in music and am qualified to teach music theory in any conservatory, and am known to make the following rather outrageous and controversial statement: "All music is the same."



When Muddy Waters did it, someone dubbed the term "blue notes" to the technique.

When Mozart did it, the European theorists called it "chromatic appogiatura."

American jazz musicians call it a "smear."



The Chinese were doing it 2000 years ago on their dulcimers and zithers, but I don't know what their word is.

Neither do I know what word Indian musicians use, and they've been doing it for centuries, nor do I know what Brazilian choro players call it.

And so on.



Bending up, "unbending" down, and upward and downward slurs all give just another color to music. Find what works best on your instrument of choice and enjoy.

---

I'm not qualified, but I teach a course on the "science of music" nevertheless.  Having a library of specific notes is like having a finite number of letters in a phonetic alphabet or of phonemes in a spoken language.  (What ever the reason, it's the same in all those cases.)  Some sort of musical vocalization clearly predates the development of language and what we call music.  The earliest musical instruments (and most to this day) imitate people's singing.  Human speech and song today tend to settle on particular pitches (albeit sometimes briefly), but sliding between them is also an essential part.

Tractor1 - Posted - 11/28/2022:  12:41:52

passing thru you can get by with anything --it gets ugly when you liinger on the wrong note--my opinion --i ask no agreement

Pick-A-Lick - Posted - 11/29/2022:  04:08:05

The notes between the notes add character to music, especially since those “between notes” are subject to the varied nuances added by each individual musician. As a Blues guitarist for over 50 years, I’ve heard the cool Blues Cats calling it “adding a little sugar”.

finger-picker - Posted - 11/29/2022:  14:00:44

quote:

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Originally posted by Tractor1

passing thru you can get by with anything --it gets ugly when you liinger on the wrong note--my opinion --i ask no agreement

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I love how you put this. I might quote you from time to time. "Tractor1" once said... :)