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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/382770
RG - Posted - 04/22/2022: 00:44:55
Well, it's raining here, and this one just seemed right for a late night rainy song. Haven't played this in a while, but have played it for a while, was one of the first two finger thumb lead songs I worked out about 45 years ago, based on Ramblin' Jack Elliot's and the Byrd's versions (how's that for the folk process) of Woody Guthrie's classic anti-hero outlaw ballad "Pretty Boy Floyd." My dad was a big fan of Woody's, and grew up dirt poor during the depression (born in 1927), and only escaped by volunteering for service in the US Navy in 1943 at the age of 16, lying about his age. He received battle stars for service in both Europe and the Pacific, but that's another story. As a kid, he was an avid reader of pulp magazines, the one escape from the crushing poverty that was his life, and he schooled me from a young age about G-Men and gangsters that figured so prominently in those publications... so this song has always been a favorite of mine.
First, a little about Woody. Any fan of folk music probably knows about Woody Guthrie. An iconoclastic American songwriter, whether he borrowed, blended, stole, or wrote his own music, he left us a rich legacy of tunes and songs that spoke of the common man, the Depression Era, and just about any other topic you can think of up until his death in 1967 at the age of 55. A prolific writer, Woody literally penned thousands of songs.
A little less well know today perhaps is Charles Arthur Floyd, (known as Pretty Boy, although he detested the name). Born in Georgia in 1904, and shot and killed by either local law enforcement or nascent Federal G-men (more on that later) in East Liverpool Ohio in 1934, Pretty Boy became a hero to many poor folks who saw him as a poor man''s Robin Hood, fighting the corruption and money that they felt held them down during the Great Depression. It's said that over 50,000 people attended his funeral, the largest ever in Oklahoma. A bank robber by trade (and a pretty good one), Pretty Boy Floyd was Public Enemy Number One, and became a pawn in a high stakes game of media manipulation and coercion used to justify the establishment of a US Federal Law Enforcement Agency (what later become the FBI). Floyd's legend grew as he (supposedly) tore up mortgages for small farmers during his bank robberies, in the pre-computer age, the equivalent of "hacking" a computer system to erase the debt. Most certainly a murderer, he was also most certainly accused of crimes he didn't commit, most notably the infamous "Kansas City Massacre", which most historians believe he was no where near, and where most of the deaths probably occurred by a law enforcement officer who wasn't trained properly in how to handle his weapon. Regardless, Pretty Boy was constantly on the run, and when the heat got too bad, he would retreat to the famed and remote Cookson Hills of Oklahoma, where friends and family would protect him. When he robbed the Sallisaw Bank, he casually strolled down the street in broad daylight, tipping his hat and greeting neighbors and friends, all the while cradling a Thompson sub-machine gun in the crook of his arm. His gang made off with $2530, equivalent to over $54,000 today.
Floyd had been dead for five years when Woody penned "Pretty Boy Floyd", and Woody most certainly used the outlaw as a metaphor for what he felt still plagued American; wealth and greed. Whether you agree with him or not, the song is a classic outlaw ballad in the vein of "Jesse James", "John Hardy" and many others in the folk music canon.
My version is a mish-match of Woody's, "Ramblin" Jack Elliot's and The Byrds rendition's (with John Hartford playing three finger banjo, fiddle and guitar on), and is real easy to play in two finger thumb lead style. Pick out those melody notes with the thumb and fill in the rest. I play it in standard "G" tuning and hope you'll give it a try. No matter if you're a G-man or gangster, it's a fun song to play.
Edited by - RG on 04/22/2022 12:06:19
Helix - Posted - 04/22/2022: 06:38:57
I read your page, Thank you for doing this work. Any young people looking for roots in the Big Branches should get their bare feet back in the mud instead of asphalt.
I would like to quote you.
Favorite Bands/Musicians:
"Anything truly "Old Time"...can't define it, but I know it when I hear it..."
Our Great Grandfather was an African Methodist Episcopal minister. He rode the Land Rush on a horse, then he went back up to Kansas to get his family.
When he got back, he had to ride the Rush again with his family and he wasn't a "Sooner." He already had his claim, the border was closed!
Our Grandfather drilled for oil and struck brine.
But my uncle was the Pharmacist in Vinita. In those days, he also supplied rope, kerosene, shells and other sundry items to many people, some of whom might have maybe had "every crime in Oklahoma added to their name." Don't know, couldn't be sure.
HIs Pharmacy building is still there, and the homestead with the chicken house, garden and cow shed. They wrap the hose around the tree to make it stay home.
I sing this song on stage to this day, on a banjo I built.
So your stories and research really touched me as you can see. You 60 year olds, keep it up.
Edited by - Helix on 04/22/2022 06:43:43
davidppp - Posted - 04/22/2022: 08:34:23
I've been playing Pretty Boy Floyd so long, I can't remember where I first learned it. Listening to the famous recorded versions again doesn't help to place it in my past. I don't sing much, but it's one of the songs I do sing. When my kids were little, I made a point of doing lots of "outlaw" songs, just so they'd know which side I was on.
I also always like to point out that Roger McGuinn was a professional banjo player before the Byrds, and that's him on Sweetheart of the Rodeo. He often explained that his signature 12-string style morphed from his three-finger banjo rolls. Flat pick replaces the thumb, and the rest of the roll moves from 1st and 2nd to 2nd and 3rd fingers.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/22/2022: 11:55:40
I learned it from the original 78 rpm shellac disc, in one of two Guthrie albums we had. We lived in OK at the time ((1950s) and it was known that if you bad-mouthed PBF in a bar in northeastern OK, you had a fight on your hands.
banjopaolo - Posted - 04/22/2022: 14:44:33
youtube.com/watch?v=3jMabs8cap...p;index=8
I recorded years ago this song on my 'Lomax Tapes' album with my dear friend Betty Gilmore (that comes from Oklahoma as Woody Guthrie) and my wife on Piano it is maybe an unusual version but I hope you enjoy...
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 04/22/2022: 21:27:30
Thanks for this one RG. Great banjo and vocal. I'm a fan!!!
My Dad graduated from high school in '34, so all of the folks like
Bonny and Clyde, John Dillinger, Machine Gun Kelly, and Pretty Boy Floyd
were on the front pages then. When I think of gangsters in the 1930's,
I always think of Capone and The Mob, but Pretty Boy et al were a continuation
of outlaws like the James Bros., the Youngers, etc.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/23/2022: 00:04:47
quote:
Originally posted by davidppp
...I alsoy always like to point out that Roger McGuinn was a professional banjo player before the Byrds, and that's him on Sweetheart of the Rodeo...
Well, R.G. Hocutt Is right in his original post that the banjo on The Byrds' PBF is played by John Hartford. McGuinn apparently took a few tries at it, but it didn't sound right, so Hartford played the break, which fits perfectly.
banjo_brad - Posted - 04/23/2022: 10:58:50
One of my favorites. I played chords on the guitar, but will have to work this out on CH, or 2f soon. My version came from Joan Baez back then (early 60's).
RG - Posted - 04/23/2022: 12:42:56
Thanks all for the kind words and posts, cool that it seems folks "found" this song the same way I did... what I most like about all of us who live and breathe this music.
John Hartford did indeed play on that track, Bill's right, Roger tried it, but it didn't have what they were looking for... I know that since Dale Davis who was good friends with Chris Hillman and Sneaky Pete told me about that session. There's also a version of Earl picking it with the ESR, but I couldn't find a recording or video of that. I did stumble across an old BHO thread where Marc Nerenberg posted a video of him playing it live. I really enjoyed Marc's playing and singing, he used to post on here but haven't heard from him in a while... hope he is well and picking.
Bill & Larry, got a kick out of your posts, really puts a "face" to the history of the tune. What's the old saying, "tough times breed tough men (and women)?" My kinda folks...
Edited by - RG on 04/23/2022 12:45:19
JanetB - Posted - 04/23/2022: 15:56:45
Another home-run choice for TOTW, RG. I went ahead and listened to your picking, then slowed, tabbed, and recorded it. It's mostly thumb-lead 2-finger picking, as you said, but seems to have some index-finger melody notes near the beginning. I haven't played much 2-finger picking and don't have much knowledge about it, so wonder if I'm correct.
Edited by - JanetB on 04/23/2022 16:08:06
RG - Posted - 04/23/2022: 20:03:41
quote:
Originally posted by JanetBAnother home-run choice for TOTW, RG. I went ahead and listened to your picking, then slowed, tabbed, and recorded it. It's mostly thumb-lead 2-finger picking, as you said, but seems to have some index-finger melody notes near the beginning. I haven't played much 2-finger picking and don't have much knowledge about it, so wonder if I'm correct.
As always, really nice version Janet!
That seeming index lead at the beginning is actually when I fret the second string at the third then fifth fret with the pinky so I can still get that first string drone effect TITI, while still grabbing those firste string melody notes. For some reason in the evolution of my playing, I don't often switch between T or I... I'll use the Roscoe Holcomb TTI more instead for first string notes as I really like that syncopation you can get with that, but I don't use it here.
Emiel - Posted - 04/24/2022: 05:53:25
Here is my take. I used to play this tune on the guitar when I did a lot of listening to Woody Guthrie in the 1970s. Never played it on the banjo, but it is easy enough on the banjo.
Banjo: Clifford Essex ‘wood hoop’ CE Special with La Bella 17s nylon strings. Bridge: Joel Hooks ‘J. Morley’. 3-finger picking. Tuning: open-G. T-shirt: Banjo Hangout 2022.
RG - Posted - 04/24/2022: 12:30:38
quote:
Originally posted by EmielHere is my take. I used to play this tune on the guitar when I did a lot of listening to Woody Guthrie in the 1970s. Never played it on the banjo, but it is easy enough on the banjo.
Banjo: Clifford Essex ‘wood hoop’ CE Special with La Bella 17s nylon strings. Bridge: Joel Hooks ‘J. Morley’. 3-finger picking. Tuning: open-G. T-shirt: Banjo Hangout 2022.
That was great Emiel!
banjopaolo - Posted - 04/25/2022: 11:24:19
quote:
Originally posted by EmielHere is my take. I used to play this tune on the guitar when I did a lot of listening to Woody Guthrie in the 1970s. Never played it on the banjo, but it is easy enough on the banjo.
Banjo: Clifford Essex ‘wood hoop’ CE Special with La Bella 17s nylon strings. Bridge: Joel Hooks ‘J. Morley’. 3-finger picking. Tuning: open-G. T-shirt: Banjo Hangout 2022.
Great rendition Emiel, love it! :-)
Emiel - Posted - 04/25/2022: 12:36:56
Thank you banjopaolo and RG (cannot be tagged for some reason)!
JanetB - Posted - 05/02/2022: 17:08:35
If you're like me, the melody is key for arranging a clawhammered version of a song. Yigal Zan, longtime BHO contributor, discussed Pretty Boy Floyd and came up with an arrangement "for those who might find it helpful to have approximating notes of Woodie Guthrie's singing, and a skeletal tab." I found the tab easily readable and playable. I asked Yigal about slides where it's not indicated how far to slide and his reply was, "The finger slides up at the time the thumb hits the 5th string. It is up to the player, how far, so I left it undefined." If you're already familiar with the Guthrie version, this will be fun to hear how Woodie's vocal would sound on banjo. Yigal offers the tab as either clawed or 2-fingers-index-leads.
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