USAF PJ - Posted - 03/16/2022:  06:54:04

Hi everyone,
Be patient (BTW, I have looked through previous posts).
I get Capo 2nd fret playing in A. Comfortable, no issue.

Capo 2 in key of D, playing out of C position, or Capo 4 in E out of C position.
(I am comfortable playing in either of these keys w/ no capo).

When playing out of C position w/ capo in either D or E, where are the 4 & 5 chords. This is my confusion.
Are they just like when playing in A? i.e, Do I grab an F chord at first fret out of F position, A at 2nd fret, bar position, B at 7th fret, etc?

Thanks

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/16/2022:  08:08:05

When you capo up 2, 3 or 4 and use the C, F, G, chords, you use just that: C, F and G chords capoed up however many. Be sure to capo the 5th string up the same amount so you can use it, too.

To answer another way: the 4 and 5 chords are exactly where they were when you were playing out of C in open G; i.e., C, F, G. Capo up 2 use C chords C, F, G and you're in the key of D. Capo up 3 and you're playing in Eb using the C, F, G, chords and capo up 4 and you're playing in E using the C, F, G chords. The 1, 4, and 5 chords don't change their shapes, just the frets they are played on.

Make sense or confuse?

beegee - Posted - 03/16/2022:  08:08:31

learn the nashville numbering system. It's a matter of adding and subtracting from the root chord.

I tend to think A=G+2 B=G+4. C=G+5 etc. Your chord shapes don't change.

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/16/2022:  09:20:09

quote:

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Originally posted by USAF PJ

When playing out of C position w/ capo in either D or E, where are the 4 & 5 chords. This is my confusion.

Are they just like when playing in A? i.e, Do I grab an F chord at first fret out of F position, A at 2nd fret, bar position, B at 7th fret, etc?

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Others have already answered that the shapes or "positions" of your 4 and 5 (IV and V) chords with capo remain the same relative to the one (I) chord without capo.

What I'd add is that maybe a different vocabulary for thinking about capo will help you to understand it better. I prefer to say that with a capo, you're playing "as if" in some other key.

So: To use a capo to play in D as you've described, you capo at 2 and play as if in C.  That means play your 1, 4 and 5 chords the same as in C except the capo is now the nut. Your hands are making C, F and G shapes (1, 4, 5) but because of the capo they're coming out as D, G and A.

Don't know if this helps.

USAF PJ - Posted - 03/16/2022:  12:18:44

Ken, Bob, & Sherry,

Thank you for the replies! It has helped. I was over thinking it. The confusion for me was the capo reestablishing the nut position and being my index finger for the D chord. I thought that as I was holding a D w/ only 3 fingers at 1 & 2nd fret (C position open) that all other chords were to be modified also. Don't know how I arrived there.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/16/2022:  14:09:33

quote:

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Originally posted by USAF PJ

Ken, Bob, & Sherry,



Thank you for the replies! It has helped. I was over thinking it. The confusion for me was the capo reestablishing the nut position and being my index finger for the D chord. I thought that as I was holding a D w/ only 3 fingers at 1 & 2nd fret (C position open) that all other chords were to be modified also. Don't know how I arrived there.

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Glad I could be of some help.   I remember when I was first learning to use a capo how difficult it was for me to understand what putting that capo on actually did.  Once the light bulb came on, it was so easy but until then, I was just completely confused.

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/18/2022:  07:36:10

quote:

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Originally posted by USAF PJ

The confusion for me was the capo reestablishing the nut position and being my index finger for the D chord . . .

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The important realization that a C chord is really the same shape as a D chord! I think we call the formation a "D shape" because D is the lowest chord for which we're likely to make the movable 3- or 4-finger shape. 

Likewise with "F shape" being the same as E Major, except there's a open string, allowing the fingering to switch. But F is lowest chord you'll make with the movable version.

After 50 years, the capo still throws me off. My biggest challenge is getting confused by the fret markers when I capo at 3 or 4. It was never a problem in my most regular gigging period in the 80s. But I play a lot less than I used to. And I almost never practice alone with the capo on. So everything I might play at a jam in A, B-flat or B, I practice in open G. Then at the jam, the capo goes on and the fretboard looks different.

This challenge for me is most pronounced the further I go up the neck from the capo (virtual nut).  In recent years, what I find myself doing is thinking in the actual key up-the-neck, not the "as-if" key of the capo. Remember: The capo does not change where chords live. The only noticeable cange with a capo is down the neck where you get open strings in chords that don't ordinarily have them. John Boulding calls the capo an open string maker.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 03/18/2022 07:41:01

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/18/2022:  08:45:14

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

 

After 50 years, the capo still throws me off. My biggest challenge is getting confused by the fret markers when I capo at 3 or 4. It was never a problem in my most regular gigging period in the 80s. But I play a lot less than I used to. And I almost never practice alone with the capo on. So everything I might play at a jam in A, B-flat or B, I practice in open G. Then at the jam, the capo goes on and the fretboard looks different.

This challenge for me is most pronounced the further I go up the neck from the capo (virtual nut).  In recent years, what I find myself doing is thinking in the actual key up-the-neck, not the "as-if" key of the capo. Remember: The capo does not change where chords live. The only noticeable cange with a capo is down the neck where you get open strings in chords that don't ordinarily have them. John Boulding calls the capo an open string maker.

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I used to have the same problem as I went up the neck:  finding the correct placement of chords/notes for the key that I was capoed to.  After many jams and gigs, it became much easier and I didn't have to think about it unless it was on a song I didn't know in a key that needed a capo.  At that point, I'd usually just stay down the neck until I could do some woodshedding on that particular song.

I used to say "Practice makes perfect", but I never seem to get perfect, so it's just:  practice  help familiarize you with positions up the neck.