finger-picker - Posted - 03/05/2022:  06:35:59

I think the broad answer to this question is the 'sky is the limit' but wanted to pick some brains for some low hanging fruit from those musical experts out there: what are some common options to redo a phrase for a repeat? I think the one I'm most familiar with is going up (or down) an octave but could other types of phraseology include playing in a minor key, changing keys altogether, etc? I ask this from a 'I'm going to write out my own phrase and see if it sounds good' perspective.

Thanks

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/05/2022:  07:02:45

Some other options are:
omit notes
change rhythm
add "blue notes"
add chromatics
vary dynamics

Tractor1 - Posted - 03/05/2022:  07:15:20

tunes like the first part of Durham's reel and the second part of across the big sandy--repeat the phrase in a different chord but within the same key--limehouse blues does this also--I like to do it,in arrangements,myself --it is more musical sometimes--I consider them a good hook--
my opinion --I ask no one to agree

finger-picker - Posted - 03/05/2022:  10:35:31

quote:

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Originally posted by mmuussiiccaall

Some other options are:

omit notes

change rhythm

add "blue notes"

add chromatics

vary dynamics

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Good ideas! Curious what adding chromatics would entail?

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/05/2022:  12:11:21

basically grace notes of pitches that are outside the scale, Tony Rice, RIP, on guitar was a master of this

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/05/2022:  19:39:24

Most common for me is:

- Go from Scruggsy to melodic

- Go from Melodic to Scruggsy

For ideas of variations within Scruggs style, listen to Earl. Foggy Mountain Breakdown, for example. Opening down-the-neck is the signature melody or lick. A later down-the-neck solo doesn't use it at all. In-between are up-the-neck variations that don't attempt to express the original idea.

So there's another approach for variations: stay with the chords and forget the melody. Do anything else that fits. Think of it as scat singing on the banjo.

Old Hickory - Posted - 03/05/2022:  19:49:58

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

Good ideas! Curious what adding chromatics would entail?

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Chromatic just means half-step.

So chromaticism or chromatic phrases means not much more than playing 2 or more notes in a row that are only half steps apart.

Examples:

3rd string 3rd fret to 2nd string open

2nd string 5th fret to 1st string 3rd fret

2nd string 6th fret to 1st string 4th fret to 5th string open

Or any of those in reverse.

These just barely scratch the surface and are too short to be much on their own. So they need to be worked into longer phrases, where they'll alter the sound by going outside the scale.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 03/05/2022:  21:03:21

"Redo a phrase for a repeat"-- do you mean play a variation on the them? This was a very popular concept for concert work throughout the 19th century.

Common examples of this would be the number of "Home Sweet Home" with variations. Here are some for banjo (there were many more than these published)...

archive.org/details/home-sweet...-b.-smith
archive.org/details/home-sweet...-jennings
archive.org/details/home-sweet...m.-stobbearchive.org/details/home-sweet...nd-forman

There are countless examples of "theme and variations" using any well known theme.

Here is "Old Folks at Home" for banjo with variations by Fred Van Eps...

youtube.com/watch?v=Dxa-a8oFmdQ&t=11s

Here is Fred Bacon playing "Massa's in the Cold Ground"

youtube.com/watch?v=k5If2LQrr14

And here is a good example of "Home Sweet Home" by Olly Oakley

youtube.com/watch?v=UjdI2_1qZgk

Of course there is the well known Paganini's variations on "Carnival of Venice" and "Witches Dance" for violin.

The best way to learn to create your own variations would be to study past examples to build on. The examples I posted are all for 5 string banjo but the fantasia was popular for all solo instrumentation.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 03/06/2022:  07:59:03

I'm thinking from a bluegrass perspective here--



When Earl Scruggs would do variations, he would seldom play a variation that was completely different from his previous break. Instead, he would target one or two phrases and do something different with them. Here are a couple of examples:



"Roll In My Sweet Baby's Arms"--youtube.com/watch?v=Gnn8TqwPrbY



"Pike County Breakdown"--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HioToEDKl_E



I take a similar approach myself in my own piece "Allegretto con Melanzane": youtube.com/watch?v=d67jtxdN_P8.



(Not sure why I couldn't get a live link for "Pike Co, BD".)

Edited by - Ira Gitlin on 03/06/2022 08:04:05

banjoak - Posted - 03/06/2022:  21:09:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by finger-picker

I think the broad answer to this question is the 'sky is the limit' but wanted to pick some brains for some low hanging fruit from those musical experts out there: what are some common options to redo a phrase for a repeat? I think the one I'm most familiar with is going up (or down) an octave but could other types of phraseology include playing in a minor key, changing keys altogether, etc? I ask this from a 'I'm going to write out my own phrase and see if it sounds good' perspective.



Thanks

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Changing to a minor key or other key altogether would not likely or often going to work well.

One approach... is a bit of how might think melodically. Think of as very simplified pared down core melodic line within... main notes and contour that create the melody; look at how the main notes go from one interval to another (often main beat and chord tones). Then think different ways you insert fill with notes and space, harmonically or linear to get from main note to the next. Can vary the density or slight contour for repeat. Part can involve note range extension or harmonic substitution for repeat.