janolov - Posted - 12/28/2021:  00:15:02

When a spam is reported the spam is automatically deleted temporary, but on the default page (banjohangout.org/forum/default.asp) the spammers login name is shown as "Last post by....." until any other member make a post in that forum. Just now a spammer with very insulting name show his names (he apparently have at least five names - all very insulting) on the default page. So when a spam is reported, the spammers name should be deleted automatically from the default page (all forum page).

banjoy - Posted - 12/28/2021:  02:49:36

Agreed. I emailed the mods about that too.



Until (and if) this gets corrected in code, the simplest solution is for someone to jump in on a thread like that and make another post, making that person's screename show up as the last poster instead, and the troll disappear in that thread. I can see that another member did just that in another thread and it works.

Regarding this specific troll I noticed on several of his accounts before they were locked, that the accts were several years old. It seems this troll has created quite a few sleeper accounts so we can probably expect this crap to continue. I've also noticed he has tried to adapt and blend in, making somewhat reasonable posts until apparently his inner demons take over and his need to slam Sherry and others takes over. The guy has some issues. I hope he can get the help or medications he needs or someone can take him down, like a sick dog, on that dead end street in Albuquerque. A few folks here will understand that reference ...

I can expect to be trolled (again) by this moron now.

Edited by - banjoy on 12/28/2021 02:56:33

janolov - Posted - 12/28/2021:  04:07:06

I just made a quick member search on the name "sherry", and about 40 different accounts were shown, all with screen names that were very insulting words directed against our dear moderator.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/28/2021:  08:05:14

Y'all are better on computer than me. is there no way to find thus things name and make it public?

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/28/2021:  08:18:40

to Banjo Hangout:
Even when the thread gets "suspended for review" the attack continues. You get a notification that the thread (whose vulgar message is in the title) gets posted with the title emphasized. I am suggesting to the hangout that messages with personal vulgar attacks are just taken off...removed with no announcement. Also I ask, are these attacks not subject to litigation due to defamation?
ken

FenderFred - Posted - 12/28/2021:  08:23:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

Y'all are better on computer than me. is there no way to find thus things name and make it public?

---

The solution might be for Eric to report the Trolls IP address to Service Provider or to Federal Authorities for prosecution. They may think they can hide behind a pseudonym but their IP address can be traced back to their bank and home address.     

AJA - Posted - 12/28/2021:  08:48:25

Suggestion:
Remove the ability to change the "Username" after the account has been created. Though it doesn't solve the entire troll problem, it does eliminate the use of sleeper accounts to suddenly have vile names. At this point, anyone can go into their profile and change their username. That may seem useful, but that feature is creating more headaches than it is worth.

Attempts to stop trolls by blocking IP addresses is utterly useless. IP addresses are easily spoofed or changed. Federal authorities have enough on their hands with ransomware and other computer crime that there is no way they are going to commit any time to stopping a troll.

techno-wizard - Posted - 12/28/2021:  08:57:42

IP's can be easily spoofed, but not MAC addresses. They are unique to every single device on the internet.

Banjonewguy - Posted - 12/28/2021:  09:00:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by FenderFred

quote:

---

Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

Y'all are better on computer than me. is there no way to find thus things name and make it public?

---

The solution might be for Eric to report the Trolls IP address to Service Provider or to Federal Authorities for prosecution. They may think they can hide behind a pseudonym but their IP address can be traced back to their bank and home address.     

---

This is the problem. This user doesn't have the same IP address all the time, so it can't be traced back to a provider. If they had a static IP they could be IP banned and wouldn't be allowed to post. There are programs that use random IP addresses that make it almost impossible to do much when it comes to the IP. Sherry has already said that this troll has only used the same IP 2 times out of all of the accounts they keep coming back on. They could go in and ban every IP the troll uses, but I'm sure he would be right back on different IP's in no time flat. If, as others have said, this guy is a computer guru he probably has a VPN set-up and is aware of the ways to track him.

banjoy - Posted - 12/28/2021:  09:27:25

MAC addresses are unique to a device, but that address cannot be extracted from the user-client browser. MAC addresses can be extracted from the new IPv6 protocol but forcing that over the more common IPv4 would alienate a lots of internet users.



Extracting the MAC address server-side is not so easy but it would solve the problem and allow specific devices to be blocked. So when a spammer is blocked, so is their device. There are 3rd party solutions which offer device fingerprinting which is pretty accurate. Large institutions which require this level of security on their public websites (banks for example) use these methods and often register the device every time you log in for the first time. There are ways to reach through a VPN and these 3rd party solutions are pretty good at what they do, identifying individual user-devices. But they cost $$.



I also agree that the ease of changing user names can be contributing to the problem but this specific troll has also attacked under more reasonable usernames, in other words, he did not change to a vulgar username and just went off thee deep end anyway ... he just seems to get his jollies off though by a username which is displayed on screed.



For example, the last series of attacks the troll joked about go to google and search for those vulgar phrases and usernames that he seems so fond of and fixated on,, and oh what a hoot he gets out of thinking this is memorialized in google. Right. For about a day. Once google re-indexes any page and that's all gone from BHO, it;s gone from google too.



This clown attacked me a few times on YouTube, comment bombing me and also Dislike bombing me. He thinks he's so damn clever (he is, by 1/2), he doesn't understand or get that YouTube considers ANY engagement as a positive, so even a dislike is considered engagement, which is a good thing in YT's algorithm. That's pretty well discussed in YT and google user forums any why google recommended seemingly unpopular videos to users. Dislikes do not deter YouTube, it helps fuels it.



The thing is, this idiot could simply get his s*** together and create another account (I am quite certain he probably has already, more than one) and act like a normal human being, interact here like a normal human being, and no one would ever know. Which is fine. I'd be just fine with him tamping the idiocy down on his own and moving on in life. Even this clown will pass away someday so it seems that this crusade of his will come home to roost so maybe he'll just stop while he still can. It's a possibility, but I ain't holding my breath.



/troll rant

Edited by - banjoy on 12/28/2021 09:32:58

Bill Rogers - Posted - 12/28/2021:  12:50:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by janolov

I just made a quick member search on the name "sherry", and about 40 different accounts were shown, all with screen names that were very insulting words directed against our dear moderator.

---

The way the software is set up, mods can only lock accounts, which still leaves the account name visible. We have no power to delete the account. I assume Eric does, but I don't know that. I wrote Eric about contacting "Buck's" ISP, but have had no reply. 

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/28/2021:  14:05:36

Hopefully, he'll get tired of his silly little games and give it a rest. If not, we'll just keep locking him out and hiding all his nasty posts until Eric figures out a way to get rid of him for good.

awildman - Posted - 12/28/2021:  17:31:07

"If, as others have said, this guy is a computer guru he probably has a VPN set-up and is aware of the ways to track him."

Okay, I'll play profiler.

Vocabulary and grammar - that of a 60+ year old
Intelligence based on the above - not overly intelligent
Actions - defensive and passive-aggressive
Behavior - juvenile
Communication - cryptic and often difficult for others to understand.
Thinks differently, rebellious and entitled. Like a flat-earther or consipiracy theorist.
Has grudge against Sherry
Is on the forum multiple times per week.

Summary: most like a 60+ year old participating forum member. Has been moderated by Sherry, probably multiple times. Passive - aggressive, cryptic communicator. Probably has some wacky ideas, that are not really scientific in nature. Self-centered, so always turns every conversation back to himself - disparaging others' ideas or promoting himself somehow. Probably posts a lot.

Now, I'm not in all the forums, but the ones I do visit, there are only 1 or 2 people who fit this profile.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/29/2021:  04:45:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by awildman

"If, as others have said, this guy is a computer guru he probably has a VPN set-up and is aware of the ways to track him."



Okay, I'll play profiler.



Vocabulary and grammar - that of a 60+ year old

Intelligence based on the above - not overly intelligent

Actions - defensive and passive-aggressive

Behavior - juvenile

Communication - cryptic and often difficult for others to understand.

Thinks differently, rebellious and entitled. Like a flat-earther or consipiracy theorist.

Has grudge against Sherry

Is on the forum multiple times per week.



Summary: most like a 60+ year old participating forum member. Has been moderated by Sherry, probably multiple times. Passive - aggressive, cryptic communicator. Probably has some wacky ideas, that are not really scientific in nature. Self-centered, so always turns every conversation back to himself - disparaging others' ideas or promoting himself somehow. Probably posts a lot.



Now, I'm not in all the forums, but the ones I do visit, there are only 1 or 2 people who fit this profile.

---

Add to that description:  has a problem with authority figures and has no respect for women.  

awildman - Posted - 12/29/2021:  05:58:13

But honestly, there are easy things that can clean this up somewhat.

1. All user name changes need mod approval.

2. All new users need mod approval.

3. All users with less than X posts are under probationary period with certain restrictions.

4. Keyword flagging/monitoring.

This is totally doable, and we have enough mod presence to implement. Just need admin on board

banjoy - Posted - 12/29/2021:  06:29:12

Eric's a busy man ... he's out riding his bike.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/29/2021:  06:58:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by awildman

But honestly, there are easy things that can clean this up somewhat.



1. All user name changes need mod approval.



2. All new users need mod approval.



3. All users with less than X posts are under probationary period with certain restrictions.



4. Keyword flagging/monitoring.



This is totally doable, and we have enough mod presence to implement. Just need admin on board

---

What restrictions would you put on new users? A probationary period with restrictions sounds unfriendly and uninviting.  Maybe I don't perceive your concept properly.

How would a moderator background check a new user in order to vet and approve them?

thanks,

ken

janolov - Posted - 12/29/2021:  07:31:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by awildman

But honestly, there are easy things that can clean this up somewhat.



1. All user name changes need mod approval.



2. All new users need mod approval.



3. All users with less than X posts are under probationary period with certain restrictions.



4. Keyword flagging/monitoring.



This is totally doable, and we have enough mod presence to implement. Just need admin on board

---

In this special case we are talking about, it is apparent from the chosen screen name that his intentions from the beginning is to insult and hurt Sherry, so I think the first bullet is OK.

However, in this special case, it is probably long time BHO member who has a lot of knowledge about banjo and also participates in a lot of discussions, both banjo discussions and off-topic discussions. So I don't think the other suggestions would help in this case. However to catch conventional spammers, who usually only post bad links, it could help to have a better control of new members: perhaps it is enough to fill in the information in the member page about players, instrument and favorite musicians. (But I am afraid that after a while some spammers would learn about banjo marks and known artist...)

I remember when I became a member in early 2006, I got an email from Eric who advised me to fill in the information on the member page so people could see who I am (I guess my name and origin sounded a little suspect).

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/29/2021:  08:08:11

I like the idea of all new users being approved by a mod. That would definitely stop what's going on now. It would, however, add to the duties of moderators and I know some of them have very busy lives. I'm retired and it wouldn't present a great problem for me.

Also like the idea of a probationary period with certain restrictions. Once again, would stop a lot of nonsense.

Keyword/flagging would be good, too. It would stop certain words from being used, however, it might not solve the problem we're having now.

Hopefully Eric will have time during his busy schedule to at least look at and do something about what's going on.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 12/29/2021:  13:00:27

For the curious, see. bitsculptor.com

awildman - Posted - 12/29/2021:  13:58:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom

quote:

---

Originally posted by awildman

But honestly, there are easy things that can clean this up somewhat.



1. All user name changes need mod approval.



2. All new users need mod approval.



3. All users with less than X posts are under probationary period with certain restrictions.



4. Keyword flagging/monitoring.



This is totally doable, and we have enough mod presence to implement. Just need admin on board

---

What restrictions would you put on new users? A probationary period with restrictions sounds unfriendly and uninviting.  Maybe I don't perceive your concept properly.

How would a moderator background check a new user in order to vet and approve them?

thanks,

ken

---

Im not suggesting we be less friendly, im suggesting that we greet people at the door, so to speak.  Get to know them just a little before we give them free run of the house.  Im glad i dont have to figure out how to do all this.

Regarding your specific question, posting links, pics, PM restrictions are the usual things.  Wont do much for this case, but im sure the mods can figure out something if keep an open mind.

I never suggested background checks, i suggested a system where mods have to approve / activate new accounts before new folks can post.

We need to worry about existing members as much or more than new folks.  If we are only worrying about new members, we are forgetting the core of what makes BHO.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/29/2021:  21:32:46

How does what just happened to me happen. I get a message of a new post to this thread and Iget this:

A new post has been added to the Banjo Hangout 'Improvements and Suggestions' forum.

Subject: Remove spammer's name on All Forum (Default page)

Reply Posted By: sherry has a very cha**** va**** too

View Newest Reply: banjohangout.org/topic/380127/-1

Then there is nothing on the thread? Does he, can he bypass the thread or did it get taken down?
ken

Bill Rogers - Posted - 12/29/2021:  21:58:58

I ran across it almost right after the post. So it was gone quickly.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom

banjoy - Posted - 12/29/2021:  22:00:07

Taken down.

I got a similar email from a different thread where he had tagged me. That one was still up. I reported it and it went down too.

As long as members act quickly when they see this stuff it will help moderators a lot.

Edited by - banjoy on 12/29/2021 22:01:37

awildman - Posted - 12/30/2021:  05:40:23

If you report the post as 'Spam', it gets removed immediately. If you report it as rule-breaking, it stays up.

Of course, the offending name remains under last post, which we would alllike to see fixed.

Edited by - awildman on 12/30/2021 05:40:48

 

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 12/30/2021:  06:05:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

I ran across it almost right after the post. So it was gone quickly.



From Greylock to Bean Blossom

---

Thanks Bill. good job.

ken