Don Smith1959 - Posted - 09/15/2021:  21:05:41

I am curios as to what knot most use when attaching nylon strings to their wooden homemade tail pieces, I have read tons of articles on nylon strings breaking at the knot, and as an avid fisherman in my younger days know the weakest point on a fishing line is the knot you use to tie your hook onto the fishing line, is this the same case with nylon banjo strings ???
I just completed my gourd banjo build and the knot i used to attach the nylon strings to my tail piece is one of the easiest knots to tie and is really not a knot as most would think of being a knot
It is called a (Timber Hitch Knot) the nice thing about using the timber hitch is it can be untied very easily,it also puts no strain on the nylon strings other than the strain from tuning, it also will not slip

just thought this might be useful info for some starting out

any way i was just curious

Thanks for reading

Bill H - Posted - 09/16/2021:  03:03:49

It sounds like you've just answered your own question. While mostly I have no-Knot tail pieces on my banjos with nylon strings I don't use knots on those. My go to is the bowline, mostly because it is the knot I know. Fishing knots should work well. If it can hold up to a 5 pound bass, it should work for a banjo.

rmcdow - Posted - 09/16/2021:  04:04:00

This knot never slips or comes undone

animatedknots.com/perfection-loop-knot

Fathand - Posted - 09/16/2021:  04:44:37

We haven't seen your tailpiece but if it's wood, will the knot used on classical guitars and some ukuleles work? Sorry I don't know hat it's called.

youtu.be/bA3yAWvOeB0

Edited by - Fathand on 09/16/2021 04:45:06

Joel Hooks - Posted - 09/16/2021:  11:00:50

I've not had any breakage problems with nylon. Polyester is a different story (marketed as Nylgut).

Most period wooden tailpieces are designed to use a simple stopper knot in the end and then the string is threaded through from the top with the knot showing. This only works if the holes were drilled only slightly larger than the strings being used.

Looking at your photos, what I would do is tie them on using the current method of a tie block bridge on Spanish Guitars. This looks nice and there are plenty of videos to show you how.

youtube.com/watch?v=Yx1IG93sEs4&t=189s

The string ends are all nice and tucked in.

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 09/16/2021:  11:14:20

@Fathand that knot is basically a timber hitch knot the only difference is it would make two more wraps with the tag end

@rmcdow if I was attaching to a no knot tail piece the knot you provided a link to that is probably the knot I would use which is basically putting a loop in one end of the nylon strings

My inquiry was not for no knot tail pieces but for those that have made a wooden tail piece with five holes in it or a leather tail piece with holes for attaching the strings

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 09/16/2021:  11:22:32

@joel hooks
bingo
the link you provided is what I used to attach my strings that is a timber hitch knot

Red Squirrel - Posted - 09/16/2021:  12:04:28

All nylon string guitars basically use a timber hitch.

Banjo I vary it depending on the tailpiece. Sometimes a double-half, some times timber, and sometimes a basic loop knot. I fight more slippage then breakage

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 09/16/2021:  12:58:42

Red Squirrel I do not understand why you would have issues with that knot slipping, I have used that knot to pull some pretty heavy logs when my wife and I lived off grid we would go out and collect firewood, the timber hitch knot is the one I would use to drag logs up with a rope tied onto the back of our quads I do not remember one incident that the knot ever slipped on me while pulling the logs closer to our vehicle and trailer.

Enfield1858 - Posted - 09/16/2021:  15:20:02

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I've not had any breakage problems with nylon. Polyester is a different story (marketed as Nylgut).

 

Are you sure about Nylgut strings being made of polyester, as Aquila don't even mention that material in their advertising?

With best regards,

Jack

Enfield1858 - Posted - 09/16/2021:  15:23:59

The one I've used on Aquila Nylgut strings is a Figure of Eight Loop Knot. This one is used a lot by mountain climbers, as it doesn't weaken the rope as much as some other knots do, and is also used by fishermen, as it holds very well even on monofil fishing line.
youtube.com/watch?v=URMx_xALTNs

With best regards,
Jack

Joel Hooks - Posted - 09/16/2021:  15:56:14

quote:

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Originally posted by Enfield1858

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I've not had any breakage problems with nylon. Polyester is a different story (marketed as Nylgut).

 

Are you sure about Nylgut strings being made of polyester, as Aquila don't even mention that material in their advertising?

With best regards,

Jack

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Yep, it is in his patent as well as an interview where he talks about it.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 09/16/2021:  16:08:44

Enfield1858 patents.google.com/patent/US5900314A/en

ukulelemag.com/stories/how-aqu...le-string

The Old Timer - Posted - 09/16/2021:  17:00:47

I use tiny bowline knots.

Enfield1858 - Posted - 09/16/2021:  17:45:33

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Enfield1858 patents.google.com/patent/US5900314A/en



ukulelemag.com/stories/how-aqu...le-string

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@Joel Hooks - many thanks for the info about the composition of Nylgut strings, and for posting the link about Mimmo Peruffi, and how he came to develop the Nylgut string.  A fascinating story; especially the part where he picked a strand up off the floor, held it in his fingers and teeth, and twanged it to hear what it sounded like 

It's a classic example of how often major  technological breakthroughs might appear to be 'an overnight success' come about almost by chance - but only after years of persistent effort!

With best regards,

Jack

Red Squirrel - Posted - 09/18/2021:  12:17:43

quote:

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Originally posted by Don Smith1959

Red Squirrel I do not understand why you would have issues with that knot slipping, I have used that knot to pull some pretty heavy logs when my wife and I lived off grid we would go out and collect firewood, the timber hitch knot is the one I would use to drag logs up with a rope tied onto the back of our quads I do not remember one incident that the knot ever slipped on me while pulling the logs closer to our vehicle and trailer.

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Sorry, To clarify I meant knots in general slipping. The reason I sometimes avoid the timber hitch is room on the tailpiece.

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 09/19/2021:  01:43:06

quote:

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Originally posted by Red Squirrel

quote:

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Originally posted by Don Smith1959

Red Squirrel I do not understand why you would have issues with that knot slipping, I have used that knot to pull some pretty heavy logs when my wife and I lived off grid we would go out and collect firewood, the timber hitch knot is the one I would use to drag logs up with a rope tied onto the back of our quads I do not remember one incident that the knot ever slipped on me while pulling the logs closer to our vehicle and trailer.

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Sorry, To clarify I meant knots in general slipping. The reason I sometimes avoid the timber hitch is room on the tailpiece.

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thank you for clarifying, it makes since what you were saying now

there are some knots i do not care for because no matter what you tie them to they slip just like on a fishing line, the only knot i ever used was a Palomar knot, it is the only one i found that did not slip and never broke at the knot 

Red Squirrel - Posted - 09/20/2021:  12:03:05

quote:

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Originally posted by Don Smith1959

quote:

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Originally posted by Red Squirrel

quote:

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Originally posted by Don Smith1959

Red Squirrel I do not understand why you would have issues with that knot slipping, I have used that knot to pull some pretty heavy logs when my wife and I lived off grid we would go out and collect firewood, the timber hitch knot is the one I would use to drag logs up with a rope tied onto the back of our quads I do not remember one incident that the knot ever slipped on me while pulling the logs closer to our vehicle and trailer.

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Sorry, To clarify I meant knots in general slipping. The reason I sometimes avoid the timber hitch is room on the tailpiece.

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thank you for clarifying, it makes since what you were saying now

there are some knots i do not care for because no matter what you tie them to they slip just like on a fishing line, the only knot i ever used was a Palomar knot, it is the only one i found that did not slip and never broke at the knot 

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I'll have to check that one out. Not familiar with it.