melissaaston - Posted - 02/06/2021:  17:20:42

Hi banjo peeps,
So I just started playing banjo a few months ago, picked up a Deering Goodtime, the Crow banjo off of craigslist, here in Canada, rather slim pickings at my slim price point, but its a nice starter banjo I think! Anyway, I am just playing clawhammer, and want experiment with replacing steel strings with nylgut. My question is- once I get my hands on some nylgut (not very available here at the moment) do I need to make any changes to the tailpiece or Bridge to accommodate the different strings. I hear that there can be a problem with string breakage unless the banjo is set up for nylon strings. Thanks in advance from your northern neighbours!

Quickstep192 - Posted - 02/06/2021:  17:31:41

You'll need to widen the slots on the nut and bridge. If the edges of the holes in the tuners are sharp, you might need to smooth them. When I converted mine from steel to nylon, I made a new nut in case I wanted to go back to steel at some point.

EulalieBlue - Posted - 02/06/2021:  18:21:49

Welcome to the wonderful world of the banjo.

Is there a particular reason you are interested in nylgut strings? If it's to mitigate discomfort for your left-hand fingertips, I would recommend holding off for a while longer until your fingertips become accustomed to pressing down the strings. If it's because you would like to experiment with a different sound, I would recommend you try something simple like tucking a sock inside the rim between the head and rod, placed at the fingerboard end.

The softer sound of not-steel strings is appealing in many ways, but you will have to make a number of annoying adjustments to optimize the setup. The bridge must be thinner, the string height above the fingerboard is better if a little higher, the tailpiece should have less downward pressure on the strings and, as pointed out above, the string grooves at nut and bridge most likely will have to be adjusted.

If after all these discouraging words you are still interested, I recommend you try regular nylon strings instead of nylgut. Nylgut can be susceptible to breakage if there are any sharp edges at nut, bridge or tailpiece, and the thinner strings sometimes just break for no apparent reason. Plus, they take forever to stretch out, and by the time they settle in place, they need replacing.

I've used nylgut strings on different instruments for many years now, and I actually like the sounds they can make, but they can be more trouble than they're worth, particularly for a novice.

melissaaston - Posted - 02/06/2021:  18:38:48

Thanks for the responses Quickstep192 and EulalieBlue . I want to experiments with a softer, plunkier tone which suits me better. The steel strings don't hurt my fingers, they are quite playable. It's really about the tone. Thank you for listing the adjustments I will probably need to make. That is very helpful. I will most likely call upon the help of my luthier friend. Here in Vancouver, I can't get any nylon or nylgut strings at the moment. I'm quite excited to try out the nylon strings when I do though. Thanks for the direction.

Bill H - Posted - 02/06/2021:  18:46:35

I have never had any issues with nylgut strings. I have had very few break, they last a really long time, and they are not necessarily quieter than steel in my experience. The only way to know if you will like them is to try. You may need to try some different bridges to get maximum tone and volume. There is so much info available. Search Youtube videos or the archives on the Hangout.

banjered - Posted - 02/06/2021:  19:15:02

Put "Nylgut strings" in the search box to the left of this page. It'll answer all yourt questions. I have 4 banjos, three of them have nylguts, work fine, last a long time, not that big of a hassle at all. banjered

banjered - Posted - 02/06/2021:  19:35:39

quote:

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Originally posted by banjered

Put "Nylgut strings" in the search box to the left of this page. It'll answer all your questions. I have 4 banjos, three of them have nylguts, work fine, last a long time, not that big of a hassle at all. banjered

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Quickstep192 - Posted - 02/07/2021:  07:13:57

I had mentioned that I made a new nut so that I could convert back to steel, but I don’t think I ever will. I still have plenty of volume and the added plunk of nylon.

You may want to try fluorocarbon strings as well. They’ve got a little more attack and brightness.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 02/07/2021:  07:56:16

There are some simple, easily-undoable things you can do to make your tone "plunkier" with steel strings. You might want to try some of those before going to all the bother of modifying your instrument for nylon strings.

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 02/07/2021:  20:41:48

@melissaaston

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan Gellert

There are some simple, easily-undoable things you can do to make your tone "plunkier" with steel strings. You might want to try some of those before going to all the bother of modifying your instrument for nylon strings.

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what Dan stated in his reply is absolutely true i wanted the same tone you are trying to achieve when I purchased my Rickard I replaced the head with a natural goat skin head and replaced the bridge,I went through several bridges until I found the one that gave me the tone I was looking for, you would not even believe just how much just changing a bridge can affect everything on a banjo I never changed the strings at all I still have the strings on it that were on it when I purchased it, and experimenting with different bridges is an eye opening learning experience I believe everyone should try at some point it is all part of the learning process. 

Edited by - Don Smith1959 on 02/07/2021 20:45:45

melissaaston - Posted - 02/07/2021:  22:55:45

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan Gellert

There are some simple, easily-undoable things you can do to make your tone "plunkier" with steel strings. You might want to try some of those before going to all the bother of modifying your instrument for nylon strings.

That's interesting, it would be great to know what some of those things are. Is replacing the bridge one of those things? I'm curious. Thanks!

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 02/08/2021:  01:34:33

quote:

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Originally posted by melissaaston

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan Gellert

There are some simple, easily-undoable things you can do to make your tone "plunkier" with steel strings. You might want to try some of those before going to all the bother of modifying your instrument for nylon strings.

 

That's interesting, it would be great to know what some of those things are. Is replacing the bridge one of those things? I'm curious. Thanks!

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the bridge is one thing you can try as well as the head and I am sure there are probably more for me I just changed the two things I mentioned

KatB - Posted - 02/08/2021:  06:38:30

I felt the same about the tone of my starter used Gumby goodtime. I changed the the head to a renaissance (it takes a high crown), and replaced the bridge with a Bart Veerman “mystery wood.” A little stuffing where the head meets the neck to kill unwanted overtones goes a long way. Doesn’t take a lot unless you’re trying to kill volume as well.



The difference in sound was so dramatic that ive kept the goodtime since adding a second banjo.



Also could do a skin head. See John Balch



Bart isn’t making bridges anymore I don’t think, but you’ll find there are many fine bridge makers to choose from. From my own experience may I suggest kat eyz (mike smith) as an alternative. I have one on my other banjo, beautiful tone.



Take care not to overly tighten the head, that will lend itself to a more twangy bluegrassy sound. if in doubt back off an 1/8 or a quarter turn to see if that sounds better. A loose floppy head will sound equally terrible, though, you may need to go the other way. If you bought it used it’s more likely to be loose than too taut.

Edited by - KatB on 02/08/2021 06:39:05

Dan Gellert - Posted - 02/08/2021:  08:07:55

Yes, it's about the bridge and head.

As Kat said, getting the head tension right is real important. I'd say that's the place to start-- get it even all around, and maybe a bit tighter and brighter-toned than you're aiming for.
Then take a square inch patch of masking tape and stick it somewhere on the back of the head. See what that does to the sound. Stick it in different spots, make the patch smaller, larger, thicker, whatever. Experiment. Right under the bridge, or near there, will usually darken the tone some. Don't overdo it. Get one where you like it, and maybe try adding one more somewhere else.

Some will stuff the back of the banjo with a towel or some such. IMO that gives you dull thud, not plunk. However, a small block of foam which fits between the head and the co-rod is always worth trying. Again, its size, material, and position can be changed to adjust its effect.