ElvisB - Posted - 11/22/2020:  06:07:08

Hi Banjo Folks!

I've decided to fit my second banjo (Goodtime) with a set of Aquila Nylgut strings, the gold ones. As after 9 months at home I'm prone to make really bad decisions.

Being a beginner and having restring a banjo (steel) maybe twice in my life it appears to be quite challenging. Who would have known?

So far I've managed to put the strings on the banjo, which is already quite an achievement. It is now day 2 of me trying to tune the damn thing with little success. It's getting there but it's still not there yet.

I'm also dreading having to tune my 5th string to a G as it already looks like it's about the break at any moment. And the 4th string which sounds pretty much tuned looks too big for the bridge and the nut.

Any Nylgut advices you could give me? Secret recipe for success? I'm already regretting my decision haha

There are a lot of topics on Nylgut already but they are all from people that have some ideas of what they are doing, unlike my good self.

Thanks!

kww - Posted - 11/22/2020:  06:29:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElvisB

the 4th string which sounds pretty much tuned looks too big for the bridge and the nut.

---

That would be my first concern: if the string isn't able to freely slide through the bridge and the nut, it causes problems, and if there's a sharp edge on the bridge or the nut that touches a nylgut string, you'll have breakage problems.

But as for tuning the thing constantly for a week? I've heard magic pre-stretching recipes but have never found them to work. I just tune everything a half-step sharp every night and morning, and some afternoon I'll finally have to flatten it to play. Once that happens, it's stable.

ElvisB - Posted - 11/22/2020:  06:47:58

Just 2 days of tuning so I guess I need to be a bit more patient.
I'm also not convinced on the quality of the tuning pegs on my Goodtime, it was a nightmare to tune with steel string so I can assume that it will be even more difficult with nylgut.

There are no sharp edges that I can see. I've noticed too late that the 4th string was too thick for the bridge and nut, I guess we'll see how it pans out, would replacing it by a normal steel string make it sound funny?

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/22/2020:  07:07:20

My advice is to put them in the garbage and buy nylon strings.

Glenn Smith - Posted - 11/22/2020:  07:29:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by Glenn Smith

Joel please explain. I’m interested in this post too. Are nylon strings similar in diameter to steel? Where do you find/buy them?



Back to OP, do you need a new bridge to use nylgut strings? I never thought about this.

---

spoonfed - Posted - 11/22/2020:  07:31:35

Exactly what Joel said, he beat me to it !

ElvisB - Posted - 11/22/2020:  07:36:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

My advice is to put them in the garbage and buy nylon strings.

---

I honestly thought it was the same, I doubt that those nylgut have any guts in them and was just a fancy trademark to attract banjo players. 

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/22/2020:  07:58:21

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElvisB

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

My advice is to put them in the garbage and buy nylon strings.

---

I honestly thought it was the same, I doubt that those nylgut have any guts in them and was just a fancy trademark to attract banjo players. 

 

---

They are extruded from polyester.  Because they are extruded they are often false (uneven in thickness which causes intonation problems).  The constant stretching causes them to become more false over time.

The thick unwound fourth is a terrible cost saving idea.  They are dull and flabby sounding.  In the history of the banjo, and from the very earliest photos taken, the 4th string was always wound.  There was a good reason for that.

They are not "gut" in any way.  They are not even "synthetic gut" as gut strings are twisted from a flat material.  They are plastic melted and shoved through a die and into a cooling tank.

Real nylon, like those from La Bella, are spun to align the molecules.  This makes for a consistent and true string.  They are further rectified to true them up and provide some grip.  They are super tough too.

dbrooks - Posted - 11/22/2020:  09:23:18

I admire Joel and am following his advice on a bridge and La Bella strings on a Stewart Thoroughbred, but I am a fan of Nylgut strings nd have them on a couple of banjos. Admittedly, these are not Deering banjos, but they have performed well for me with no changes to the bridge or nut. Others have used them on Reiter banjos, for example. The Nylguts break easily if there is a sharp edge and I always stretch them repeatedly while installing them to reduce the time it takes for them to settle in. You can try nylon strings (many here recommend Chris Sands strings) to do your own comparison. Let your ear and your hands help you to decide.

David

ElvisB - Posted - 11/22/2020:  10:56:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

---

Originally posted by ElvisB

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

My advice is to put them in the garbage and buy nylon strings.

---

I honestly thought it was the same, I doubt that those nylgut have any guts in them and was just a fancy trademark to attract banjo players. 

 

---

They are extruded from polyester.  Because they are extruded they are often false (uneven in thickness which causes intonation problems).  The constant stretching causes them to become more false over time.

The thick unwound fourth is a terrible cost saving idea.  They are dull and flabby sounding.  In the history of the banjo, and from the very earliest photos taken, the 4th string was always wound.  There was a good reason for that.

I've looked at some nylon strings and I'm getting a but list with the different gauge. I normally use medium in steel but having trouble to find the nylon equivalent. On the Nylgut I have gauge wasn't ever mention so that was easy! 

I've been looking at those ones, couldn't find La Bella in the UK :

ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSICAL-BANJO...y4dNS684A

Thanks! 

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/22/2020:  11:01:50

dbrooks

Are Chris Sands strings back on the market? I've not been able to find them for years.

I too am fine with NylGuts...
as said though, they take awhile to stretch and can be helped along
by manually stretching them. As also mentioned, eliminate any
sharp edges.

banjered - Posted - 11/22/2020:  11:04:43

I have nylguts on 3 banjos now, two minstrel and one normal tension on a short neck banjo. I like them, soft feel and mellow sounding. With proper care they can last months to years. You of course have to eliminate any sharp edges on the tailpiece, bridge, tuning posts, and nut, a little sandpaper goes a long way. I use a folded-edge sandpaper to widen and smooth any slots too. If you overstretch the strings before and during installation you can create thick and thin parts of the string ruining intonation. Mild stretching is OK. I tune them up about 4 notes below pitch and let them stretch overnight. Next day I start tuning them up but don't try to do it all at once, tune up, wait awhile, tune up again. Perhaps by the end of the day I can get it in pitch for one tune/song before it flattens. Third day I keep tuning it to pitch and it stays longer and longer in pitch but it might take several days to stabilize. After many months of playing the strings can wear out where they touch the fret wires creating a thin spot and messing with the intonation. I'd rather wear out the strings than fret wires. Too much messing around? Is it worth it? Is for me, but hey, it's a banjo which is designed to be messed around with. banjered

Nickcd - Posted - 11/22/2020:  12:07:43

A good source for nylon strings in the UK is Clifford Essex. Sell them in light , medium and heavy gauges. Andy Banjo also sells decent nylon strings. La bella are difficult to get in the UK though someone posted a link to a store in Ireland that sells them - seem a little on light side for my liking.

I have some Aquila Nylgut strings on a banjo - the ones with the unwound 4th & was surprised how much I like the unwound 4th.

The strings themselves took a bit of time to settle (same with other nylon ones to an extent) but now seem to stay fairly in tune with little adjustment & these are on a banjo with friction tuning pegs and a calf skin head, which in itself can effect tuning according to environment.

Re bridge and nut you may need to make the grooves a little larger to accommodate the nylon strings. Would not worry about doing this 'cos if you want to go back to steel can easily buy a new bridge & nut.

BTW how are you getting on with your Ballard banjo?

Edited by - Nickcd on 11/22/2020 12:16:53

gentrixuk - Posted - 11/22/2020:  12:20:18

I just found some Picato strings at stringsdirect.co.uk. An older post here suggested these are the same company that made the Chris Sands strings. Is that right? I've bought some to give them a try anyway.



I managed to get some LaBella 17s from strings.ie in Ireland a couple of months ago and like them a lot, but they're out of stock now.

Edited by - gentrixuk on 11/22/2020 12:21:48

dbrooks - Posted - 11/22/2020:  12:31:57

R.D. Lunceford , I had forgotten that the Chris Sands strings went out of production in 2016. I thought they were worth a mention but didn't check on their current availability. Thanks for the reminder.

David

ElvisB - Posted - 11/22/2020:  12:38:35

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nickcd

A good source for nylon strings in the UK is Clifford Essex. Sell them in light , medium and heavy gauges. Andy Banjo also sells decent nylon strings. La bella are difficult to get in the UK though someone posted a link to a store in Ireland that sells them - seem a little on light side for my liking.

I have some Aquila Nylgut strings on a banjo - the ones with the unwound 4th & was surprised how much I like the unwound 4th.

The strings themselves took a bit of time to settle (same with other nylon ones to an extent) but now seem to stay fairly in tune with little adjustment & these are on a banjo with friction tuning pegs and a calf skin head, which in itself can effect tuning according to environment.

Re bridge and nut you may need to make the grooves a little larger to accommodate the nylon strings. Would not worry about doing this 'cos if you want to go back to steel can easily buy a new bridge & nut.

BTW how are you getting on with your Ballard banjo?

---

Yes I was looking at the Clifford strings on ebay, I'm going to get their bridge with the compensated 5th string, I'm just wondering which gauge should I get as the gauge are much different from traditional steel strings. But first, I'll try to get those nylgut strings to work ! 

When I got my Ballard I was a bit "surprised" at first of the tone to be honest, which is not due to the manufacturing but to the Dobson tone ring I chose, it took some time for me to get use to. Looking back I should have probably chosen a wooden tone ring. 

Overall and a few months of playing it, I have to say it's a fantastic instrument. It sounds wonderful, it's beautifully made and an absolute pleasure to play. It's a huge step up from my Goodtime of course, which I have not played at all since I got the new banjo. Worst, when I try to play it, I can only last a few minutes before reaching back for my Ballard. Hence why I want to put Nylgut strings on it as I cannot stand the sound of it with steel string anymore haha. 

If you are still looking for a new banjo I would higly recommend you go to Leon. 

The only "bad" thing I would say about it is that I asked to have metal plate on the scoop which raise the scoop of maybe one milimiter and makes it hard for me to play there as my thumb keeps on sliding from the 5th string because of this. It might just be a question of getting used to it as well, or buying that clifford Essex bridge with the raised 5th string ! 

Nickcd - Posted - 11/22/2020:  13:11:44

If buying from Clifford Essex - go to their website as a bit cheaper there than their Ebay listings. Their website is a .net.

Glad you like the Ballard - I liked the sound of the Dobson walnut one - in fact I was just playing "Davy come on back and act like you ought to" (on my Nylgut strung Banjo) which I think he demos on one of those.

BTW I would also suggest after getting your nylon strings up and going you consider installing a calf or goat skin head - I would recommend for this Andy Banjo or Hobgoblin. Andy Banjo also sells flesh rings but not listed you need to do a direct search and then slip it into the basket!

Andy Banjos instructions for doing this also quite sound (pun intended).

All good fun during LD??

Edited by - Nickcd on 11/22/2020 13:15:53

gentrixuk - Posted - 11/22/2020:  14:17:46

"Lord of the strings" 

lordofthestrings.com/en/brands...la?page=4

seem to have the precious LaBella 17s for sale

RV6 - Posted - 11/22/2020:  16:34:15

There's lots of good info on synthetic strings on the hangout.   Using the search feature will keep you busy for a long time.

Here's a link that has a bunch of posts concerning Nylgut's that I participated in search of answers concerning Nylguts with occasional posts by me concerning my experiences : banjohangout.org/pages/...amp;q2=RV6 nylgut strings&refine=forum&q=RV6 nylgut strings more:forum">banjohangout.org/pages/...amp;q2=RV6" target="_blank">ttps://banjohangout.org/pages/...mp;q2=RV6 nylgut strings&refine=forum&q=RV6 nylgut strings more:forum

A short summary:  the newer Nylguts are tougher than some of the other iterations of their strings.   I liked the Sands strings but, as far as I know, they are no longer available.   The Sands used a silver wound 4th.  R.D had a suggestion as a replacement of the large diameter 4th string included with the 5B strings with a wound guitar string and it sounded good but seemed a bit short lived.  I went back to using the wound 4th GHS PF150 string that I had on hand which were "take offs".

I'm back to steel strings due to: jams that constantly change tunings and the fact that, if you break a Nylgut during a jam, you're pretty much out of business.   It's really fast and easy to replace a broken string with steel strings. 

I tried the LaBelle 17's (?) and didn't care for them and gave them away.

I liked the sound of the Nylguts but, life is easier with the lower cost, steel strings for me.   I found a good combination of AMB steel strings that work well for me and they're lower cost and more convenient and "repeatable" than Nylguts.

I've had fun tinkering  with strings, heads and bridges.  I hope you enjoy your adventure, as well.

Bart Veerman - Posted - 11/22/2020:  23:37:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjered

I tune them up about 4 notes below pitch and let them stretch overnight. Next day I start tuning them up but don't try to do it all at once, tune up, wait awhile, tune up again. Perhaps by the end of the day I can get it in pitch for one tune/song before it flattens. Third day I keep tuning it to pitch and it stays longer and longer in pitch but it might take several days to stabilize

---

Three days plus to tune a banjo - I would find that, well, uh, not practical...

Joel Hooks - Posted - 11/23/2020:  06:22:31

dbrooks that is why we have different materials available. If everyone liked the same thing it would be a pretty boring world.

AndyW - Posted - 11/26/2020:  15:18:54

Re- the bridge with the raised fifth(I assume that's what you mean by compensated fifth). I'd imagine that would make it a bit more difficult to get 'into' the fourth. I'd consider just getting a slightly higher (on all strings) bridge.

ElvisB - Posted - 11/27/2020:  10:34:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by AndyW

Re- the bridge with the raised fifth(I assume that's what you mean by compensated fifth). I'd imagine that would make it a bit more difficult to get 'into' the fourth. I'd consider just getting a slightly higher (on all strings) bridge.

---

That's a very good point, I didn't think about that. I do have the feeling that the 5th string is slightly lower than the rest as its shorter and there is that spike before going into the tuning peg. I'm getting the bridge tomorrow so I'll try and see.

Apart from that it's now been a week, banjo is more or less tuned now. However it gets really quickly out of tune while playing. I think that might just be a Goodtime issue as I had similar issue with steel but not at all with my better banjo. Any advices? Maybe there are something I need to do. 

Nickcd - Posted - 11/27/2020:  15:25:22

I got a bridge from CE with raised 5th but used it on a steel strung banjo. Did not like it - not the raised 5th but the thinness of the bridge effecting the tone.
With nylon strings however you may indeed require a higher bridge.
Re staying in tune - the Aquila ones I have are pretty good and also good at rapidly tuning to alternative tunings and back again as needs be.
What sort of tuners does your Goodtime have?

ElvisB - Posted - 11/28/2020:  01:30:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nickcd

I got a bridge from CE with raised 5th but used it on a steel strung banjo. Did not like it - not the raised 5th but the thinness of the bridge effecting the tone.

With nylon strings however you may indeed require a higher bridge.

Re staying in tune - the Aquila ones I have are pretty good and also good at rapidly tuning to alternative tunings and back again as needs be.

What sort of tuners does your Goodtime have?

---

I bought 2 bridges, one for steel and one for nylon to use them on both banjo. What kind of tone did you get with your steel one? I didn't think the thickness has a great importance.... Something to learn everyday.

On my Goodtime I just have the classic guitar style tuners. 

AndyW - Posted - 11/28/2020:  01:41:37

Probably not the thinness of the bridge in itself affecting the tone, but the light weight/mass of the bridge.
I find slightly heavier bridges cut out a lot of overtones in a similar way that stuffing the pot does. Probably doesn't really affect the 'projected' sound of the banjo much, but certainly affects the overtones you hear yourself behind the banjo when playing.

Nickcd - Posted - 11/28/2020:  09:09:23

What Andy said about impact on tone.

Re your tuners as they are geared would expect they should be ok.

The re tuning at moment is probably to do with strings gradually stretching + even tightening more round tuner pegs.

I have just restrung a fretless conversion with nylon strings which were previously used and these are taking a little frequent retuning to settle in - with regard to the playable part, winding round tuners and knots at tailpiece.

Edited by - Nickcd on 11/28/2020 09:09:57

Patriot - Posted - 12/01/2020:  11:48:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

dbrooks



Are Chris Sands strings back on the market? I've not been able to find them for years.

---

I agree. I've installed and used some of Chris Sands strings too, but its my understanding that he folded-up his operations several yaers ago. They used to be readily available at Elderly Music, but no longer. Instead, I've switched to Worth brand fluorocarbons (made for ukulele, but shipped in 63" lengths), and they've proven to be quite nice, albeit VERY soft at that longer (banjo) scale length (i.e., 26.3")

Edited by - Patriot on 12/01/2020 11:48:44

Patriot - Posted - 12/01/2020:  14:20:41

Update: I just received this e-mail reply moments ago from Chris Sands over in Europe (December 1, 2020, at 3:00 pm MST) . . .

"Hello Joseph!
thank you very much for your email.
I'm afraid that the factory which manufactured my banjo strings was closed down. So far I have not managed to secure a suitable alternative supply. I hope for better news on this at some stage.
Very sorry to disappoint.
Regards,
Chris Sands.
P.S. have you seen my latest album at Elderly, "Banjo Time Machine"? It's all recorded on phonograph cylinders."

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 12/01/2020:  17:11:11

I think this has been the case for some time now, though I would certainly like to see Chris's strings become available again.