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james krewson - Posted - 01/29/2020: 05:24:26
Hey all,
I’m looking for a little speculation as to the maker of this beauty I found hanging on the wall of an antique store yesterday. 1870s? 12” rim, some rough but cool fretwork I assume added later.
Thanks in advance!
Jim
csacwp - Posted - 01/29/2020: 05:44:24
1850s-1870s.
james krewson - Posted - 01/29/2020: 05:50:05
Thank you! I was wondering about the shield brackets, are they not necessarily post war?
trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/29/2020: 06:14:47
The hardware looks to be "factory" rather than hand-made...which would lead me to think post-war. Also the 5th string peg config.
Cool banjo! Thats my favorite peghead design (and my avatar over on the Minstrel Banjo forum).
james krewson - Posted - 01/29/2020: 06:40:46
Thanks Marc! Very appreciated. I’m gonna check out the forum.
Another question, I removed extra hardware looking to be from around 1900 from in between the original brackets.
What are your thoughts on leaving alterations because they contribute to the history of the instrument?
And I live in upstate NY, does it look like an NYC build?
IMBanjoJim - Posted - 01/29/2020: 07:23:22
Very cool!
trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/29/2020: 07:29:25
quote:
Originally posted by james krewson
Thanks Marc! Very appreciated. I’m gonna check out the forum.
Another question, I removed extra hardware looking to be from around 1900 from in between the original brackets.
What are your thoughts on leaving alterations because they contribute to the history of the instrument?
And I live in upstate NY, does it look like an NYC build?
NY build is probably a good enough guess. NYC is certainly possible. The neck looks "evolved" to me, the 5th string peg cut especially. Someone may pop in with a period catalog that shows this peghead style...but I don't recall seeing it in a catalog.
Restoration, reconstruction, whatever you want to call it...its a personal thing. I tend towards doing as little as possible: gentle cleanup, repairs to make it stable/playable only, no cosmetics. If there is fret sprout, I'd gently address it...but otherwise leave 'em alone. Yah, I probably would be pulling the obviously modern updates if they weren't structurally necessary. If the rim is still strong, it shouldn't be an issue. You'll have extra holes...but that is part of your "history" talking-points...and who doesn't want to talk about their cool vintage banjo? 
james krewson - Posted - 01/29/2020: 07:34:20
Wow thanks yeah! Great info.
I agree, I do some antiques restoration as a side business and gonna treat this one with kid gloves. But also get it up and running. The rim is strong if a little out of round. And I LOVE boring my non banjo friends with banjospeak!
csacwp - Posted - 01/29/2020: 07:43:46
quote:
Originally posted by james krewson
Thank you! I was wondering about the shield brackets, are they not necessarily post war?
No, they aren't. Some banjos had them as early as the 1850s.
I don't see features indicating that this banjo was a NY product.
Edited by - csacwp on 01/29/2020 07:44:40
csacwp - Posted - 01/29/2020: 07:46:02
quote:
Originally posted by trapdoor2
The hardware looks to be "factory" rather than hand-made...which would lead me to think post-war. Also the 5th string peg config.
Cool banjo! Thats my favorite peghead design (and my avatar over on the Minstrel Banjo forum).
There are numerous prewar banjos with horizontal pegs and clean hardware like this, including shield brackets. I don't think either feature necessarily points to postwar production.
IMBanjoJim - Posted - 01/29/2020: 08:12:43
I absolutely LOVE that lyre-peghead shape! However, the one broken wing points to why they were probably discontinued. Very cool. I am totally jealous! lol
Edited by - IMBanjoJim on 01/29/2020 08:13:22
Alvin Conder - Posted - 01/29/2020: 08:32:27
Beautiful piece.
As others have said, love that peg head design.
From the manufacture of the Hardware, specifically the thread and nuts on the hook configuration, I would put this instrument at no later than mid 1870’s.
Congratulations. Very interesting find. Go very light on the restoration. Looks like you have everything there and all you may need is a new skin head, strings (gut of course) and a new proper bridge.
trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/29/2020: 08:45:50
quote:
Originally posted by csacwp
quote:
Originally posted by trapdoor2
The hardware looks to be "factory" rather than hand-made...which would lead me to think post-war. Also the 5th string peg config.
Cool banjo! Thats my favorite peghead design (and my avatar over on the Minstrel Banjo forum).
There are numerous prewar banjos with horizontal pegs and clean hardware like this, including shield brackets. I don't think either feature necessarily points to postwar production.
Well John, I both agree and disagree. I have been out of the loop for a while so I'm not really up on the latest info. Yes, horizontal pegs have been around...but the combination of the peg style, neck cut and overall style on this particular banjo leads me down the postwar path. To me, the shield brackets are not a definitive tell...they were too common throughout the period.
I'm always open to new info. Show me!
james krewson - Posted - 01/29/2020: 13:37:17
Thanks y’all, I’m really excited to get this info. I’ll post pics as it comes along.
Would the rosewood fingerboard be another indicator?
csacwp - Posted - 01/29/2020: 14:25:53
quote:
Originally posted by james krewson
Thanks y’all, I’m really excited to get this info. I’ll post pics as it comes along.
Would the rosewood fingerboard be another indicator?
Nope.
I'd keep the restoration to a bare minimum. Don't refinish anything. Removing the more modern hardware was OK. There are so few extant early banjos, and it's a shame when they are modified. It's one of those things where if you are seeking to play one that isn't in playable condition it is better to have a replica made and leave the original as-is for posterity's sake.
Great find!
Edited by - csacwp on 01/29/2020 14:26:34
james krewson - Posted - 01/29/2020: 16:29:39
I will for sure! Thanks much!
Alvin Conder - Posted - 01/30/2020: 17:27:34
Just to reiterate what John C said above...DO NOT refinish, strip, polish or “shine up” anything on that instrument.
Do what you need to get it playable and usable, but all too often folks get carried away and start sanding, polishing and refinishing valuable instruments and other antiques to make them “better’.
Polishing metal, refinishing wood on any antique, be it a banjo or a 17th century cabinet, always destroys value.
james krewson - Posted - 01/31/2020: 04:04:25
That said, Alvin what are your thoughts on a Candy Apple Red refinish and some flames airbrushed on the fingerboard???
mike gregory - Posted - 01/31/2020: 04:32:39
quote:
Originally posted by james krewson
That said, Alvin what are your thoughts on a Candy Apple Red refinish and some flames airbrushed on the fingerboard???
Clifton Hicks - Posted - 01/31/2020: 07:15:46
Very cool! Strikes me as circa 1870. I would brush a thin coat of oil onto the metal/wood and probably not do much else to it.
Jbo1 - Posted - 01/31/2020: 07:59:13
Except maybe some Scruggs tuners and have the rim cut for a flathead tone ring....
IMBanjoJim - Posted - 01/31/2020: 08:30:31
Probably you need to send me the banjo for safe-keeping. I promise I will refrain from doing the sunburst finish. Now, Maybe those Bill Keith tuners...
Jbo1 - Posted - 01/31/2020: 08:37:50
The way the scroll broke off, maybe that's where Bill Monroe got the idea for his mandolin.
james krewson - Posted - 02/10/2020: 11:18:55
Hey all, just wanted to share some new pics of the old Minstrel Lyre banjo...
IMBanjoJim - Posted - 02/10/2020: 11:26:05
Atta boy! Decided against the sunburst finish, too!
james krewson - Posted - 02/10/2020: 13:38:56
Thanks Jim! Yeah might still do the flames though!
mike gregory - Posted - 02/10/2020: 14:03:56
quote:
Originally posted by james krewson
Thanks Jim! Yeah might still do the flames though!
Beat ya to it!
james krewson - Posted - 02/10/2020: 14:26:32
THATS what I’m talkin about! Hahahahaha! Thanks Mike
IMBanjoJim - Posted - 02/10/2020: 17:15:34
Just don’t play it with your teeth, or set it on fire! You are NOT a rock star!
AlanCook - Posted - 02/17/2020: 18:15:05
The peg head should be able to be repaired without compromising any originally. Carefully, by the right person.
Would love that in my collection btw! Nice find!
Edited by - AlanCook on 02/17/2020 18:16:18
rcc56 - Posted - 02/17/2020: 19:32:53
That's a great find.
On replacing the missing piece on the head: the carpentry is not difficult, but getting a reasonably harmonious match on the finish is hard. If you decide to have the work done, choose your repair person very carefully.
Edited by - rcc56 on 02/17/2020 19:34:59
Alvin Conder - Posted - 02/18/2020: 09:09:17
Imwould leave the peg head completely alone. Matching everything up would be a restorers nightmare.
Just tell people that the banjo may have belonged to Bill Monroe’s Grandfather.
Jay Ray K - Posted - 02/20/2020: 06:07:43
Definitely something I’d take a moment to admire before leaving the house.
Any sound files?
BanjoLink - Posted - 02/20/2020: 14:20:15
I don't know what others use, but for wood I have always used a mixture of equal parts boiled linseed oil, turpentine, and white vinegar. I got this recipe from my mother who was an antique dealer. It will remove the grime and and restore the vitality of the wood, but it will not take off any original finish. Basically wipe it on to clean and them wipe it off with a clean cloth.
