Quickstep192 - Posted - 12/11/2019:  05:36:38

I’m embarking on an adventure to try nylon strings on my open back.

While searching on knots I found this video. It looks like it might make a nice loop for nylon strings.


youtu.be/1MGTgvAvm64

250gibson - Posted - 12/11/2019:  05:58:05

quote:

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Originally posted by Quickstep192

I’m embarking on an adventure to try nylon strings on my open back.



While searching on knots I found this video. It looks like it might make a nice loop for nylon strings.





youtu.be/1MGTgvAvm64

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You could do that, but it is more trouble. Thst knot is easier to tie, and actually meant for tying through and eye. Banjo strings aren’t tied through and eye, so a simple surgeons loop would be fine. 

DC5 - Posted - 12/11/2019:  05:59:56

I'm no expert, but that looks like it would be effective. I usually tie a bowline. I don't work a lot with nylon, and don't change strings often. I only have nylon on my gourd and my ukulele.

blazo - Posted - 12/11/2019:  06:02:50

Seems like a lot of work to me. I use a simple overhand loop knot . I have several banjos strung with nylon - all with overhand loop knots - and never had an issue with the knot slipping or becoming untied..

trapdoor2 - Posted - 12/11/2019:  06:13:03

It depends on the tailpiece. For most tailpieces (bar, holes, etc.), I simply loop around the bar (or thru the hole), twist the bitter end around the standing end (twice?) and then slip the bitter end back thru the loop, pull it tight. As long as the string bears against itself in some fashion it will hold fine...since it is always under tension.

A bowline is also good, esp. if your tailpiece has a single post (like a modern No-knot or one where the slots are too narrow to use).

Some tailpieces have small enough holes to simply tie a stopper knot (like a figure eight) and let it bear in the hole like a ball-end. I use that for vintage celluloid or bone tailpieces.

mike gregory - Posted - 12/11/2019:  06:28:52

I make an overhand knot, and then i make another.
The first one keeps the end of the string from slipping out through the second one.

Bob Smakula - Posted - 12/11/2019:  07:28:50

I use a figure 8 knot.



Bob Smakula

smakula.com

Figure 8 Knot

 

Joel Hooks - Posted - 12/11/2019:  07:51:03

quote:

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

It depends on the tailpiece. For most tailpieces (bar, holes, etc.), I simply loop around the bar (or thru the hole), twist the bitter end around the standing end (twice?) and then slip the bitter end back thru the loop, pull it tight. As long as the string bears against itself in some fashion it will hold fine...since it is always under tension.



A bowline is also good, esp. if your tailpiece has a single post (like a modern No-knot or one where the slots are too narrow to use).



Some tailpieces have small enough holes to simply tie a stopper knot (like a figure eight) and let it bear in the hole like a ball-end. I use that for vintage celluloid or bone tailpieces.

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The Korean No Knots with the slots work fine with properly sized strings.   The notches are no narrower than the originals.  The posts do need to be cleaned up.

At some point after they started being made in china the posts got jammed together.  I have seen China no knots (that don't have the patent stamp) that even "period" sized nylon will not fit between the posts on.

I also use a figure 8 with a bight for loops or just a figure eight if I don't need a loop.   I use no knots as intended (including on my FVE).

The "no knot" tailpieces without the slots should just be called "Knot tailpieces".  Fred Bacon would be confused by them.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 12/11/2019:  08:21:55

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

It depends on the tailpiece. For most tailpieces (bar, holes, etc.), I simply loop around the bar (or thru the hole), twist the bitter end around the standing end (twice?) and then slip the bitter end back thru the loop, pull it tight. As long as the string bears against itself in some fashion it will hold fine...since it is always under tension.



A bowline is also good, esp. if your tailpiece has a single post (like a modern No-knot or one where the slots are too narrow to use).



Some tailpieces have small enough holes to simply tie a stopper knot (like a figure eight) and let it bear in the hole like a ball-end. I use that for vintage celluloid or bone tailpieces.

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The Korean No Knots with the slots work fine with properly sized strings.   The notches are no narrower than the originals.  The posts do need to be cleaned up.

At some point after they started being made in china the posts got jammed together.  I have seen China no knots (that don't have the patent stamp) that even "period" sized nylon will not fit between the posts on.

I also use a figure 8 with a bight for loops or just a figure eight if I don't need a loop.   I use no knots as intended (including on my FVE).

The "no knot" tailpieces without the slots should just be called "Knot tailpieces".  Fred Bacon would be confused by them.

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Yah, I had one (brand new) where the slots had been squeezed closed. Probably still in a box somewhere. Since I don't use cobwebs for strings, I will either widen the slots (if necessary) or just use them as a post. Of course, I really prefer original Elite tailpieces...when I can find 'em. Second preference is the cammed No-knots...those don't really work very well with thick nylon though. Have you tried one with your cobwebs?

Joel Hooks - Posted - 12/11/2019:  08:36:47

quote:

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

quote:

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

It depends on the tailpiece. For most tailpieces (bar, holes, etc.), I simply loop around the bar (or thru the hole), twist the bitter end around the standing end (twice?) and then slip the bitter end back thru the loop, pull it tight. As long as the string bears against itself in some fashion it will hold fine...since it is always under tension.



A bowline is also good, esp. if your tailpiece has a single post (like a modern No-knot or one where the slots are too narrow to use).



Some tailpieces have small enough holes to simply tie a stopper knot (like a figure eight) and let it bear in the hole like a ball-end. I use that for vintage celluloid or bone tailpieces.

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The Korean No Knots with the slots work fine with properly sized strings.   The notches are no narrower than the originals.  The posts do need to be cleaned up.

At some point after they started being made in china the posts got jammed together.  I have seen China no knots (that don't have the patent stamp) that even "period" sized nylon will not fit between the posts on.

I also use a figure 8 with a bight for loops or just a figure eight if I don't need a loop.   I use no knots as intended (including on my FVE).

The "no knot" tailpieces without the slots should just be called "Knot tailpieces".  Fred Bacon would be confused by them.

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Yah, I had one (brand new) where the slots had been squeezed closed. Probably still in a box somewhere. Since I don't use cobwebs for strings, I will either widen the slots (if necessary) or just use them as a post. Of course, I really prefer original Elite tailpieces...when I can find 'em. Second preference is the cammed No-knots...those don't really work very well with thick nylon though. Have you tried one with your cobwebs?

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Yes on the cammed.  I have two originals, both work fine (as if they were made for that string size) with the spiderwebs.  The one modern copy I have works fine as well.

mikehalloran - Posted - 12/11/2019:  09:59:39

Hated including the original crammed NoKnot when I sold my ‘25 NO 3 Tubaphone but everything else was still original including the bump case, head and 2-foot all maple Vega bridge.

I thought about keeping it, though...

banjered - Posted - 12/11/2019:  13:18:53

Fold the string back on itself 3-4". Tie an overhand knott. Use a nail or pencil to help size the knott you want.

I've used some of the knotts listed above but I find this simpler, no slip, and I think it looks better. banjered

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 12/11/2019:  14:49:22

I only have to put nylon strings on when they're specifically requested by the customer so I don't do it all the time, but when I have I've always used a bowline. Next time it'll be interesting to try some of these other knots instead.
Zach

jduke - Posted - 12/11/2019:  15:46:50

I have always used a Perfection Loop, which is different than the Perfection Knot shown in the video posted. And it's much easier to tie too!

youtube.com/watch?v=GnVxulM6oXw

Bowlines are good knots too. As a fly fisher, I tie Perfection Loops regularly, but I haven't tried to tie a Bowline since I was a boy scout some 60 years ago.

kmwaters - Posted - 12/11/2019:  16:14:04

Fishermen never run out of knot ideas. Amazing.

RV6 - Posted - 12/11/2019:  17:24:14

For Nylguts, I use an overhand knot with a stop knot on the end of 1,2,3 and 5.  I just use an overhand for the thick #4 string.   No stop knot.

Overhand with stop knot

 

CEParagon124 - Posted - 12/11/2019:  19:16:59

I use this one:

 

Meles_Meles - Posted - 12/11/2019:  20:31:45

I find that the stop knot can be unstable. Instead, I use the glowing ember on the end if a cigarette to form a glob on the string tip to stop the main knot from unraveling. It works on fishing lines too.

banjered - Posted - 12/11/2019:  21:14:46

Stop knotts used to be the way I tied loops. The trick to making them work is that the stop knott is pinned UNDER the loop against the tail piece. Now i prefer the even simpler/better looks knott as I suggested above. banjered

mike gregory - Posted - 12/12/2019:  04:48:50

Speaking of Scouts and knots:

When demonstrating how to make the Wonderful One-Stringed WUNJO, which has a piece of nylon fishline for a string, I tell the kids to use a

"Double-Blind Sheep Stealer's knot"

Which is, as described above, simply two overhand knots.

I just enjoy using a  fancy made-up name for a very simple knot

DC5 - Posted - 12/12/2019:  05:47:36

quote:

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Originally posted by Meles_Meles

I find that the stop knot can be unstable. Instead, I use the glowing ember on the end if a cigarette to form a glob on the string tip to stop the main knot from unraveling. It works on fishing lines too.

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Will a nicotine patch, or vape pen work as well?

Joel Hooks - Posted - 12/12/2019:  06:16:01

quote:

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Originally posted by CEParagon124

I use this one:

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For those who don't know, this is called a figure 8 with a bight.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 12/12/2019:  06:35:02

quote:

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Originally posted by Meles_Meles

I find that the stop knot can be unstable. Instead, I use the glowing ember on the end if a cigarette to form a glob on the string tip to stop the main knot from unraveling. It works on fishing lines too.

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I am impressed that you are still smoking!  That is a true commitment this day and age.  Between the high prices and public shunning, I commend you for staying true to yourself and the tradition of smoking. 

Many of the "old timers" are shown in photos smoking.  One can also spot the oblong shape of a pack in their front shirt pocket.   All the true "old timers" smoked.  That is another tradition that is being lost on the youth of today.

Robotic cigarettes just are not the same.  Kids today just don't understand how important it is to follow tradition.

mike gregory - Posted - 12/12/2019:  13:52:59

quote:

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Originally posted by RV6

For Nylguts, I use an overhand knot with a stop knot on the end of 1,2,3 and 5.  I just use an overhand for the thick #4 string.   No stop knot.

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THAT's the one I call the Double-Blind sheep stealers knot!

The Old Timer - Posted - 12/12/2019:  16:15:59

I use little bowlines.

jrgilles - Posted - 12/12/2019:  16:20:16

Haven't used this on a banjo string, but this is by far my favorite stopper knot. Can't see why it wouldn't work for a banjo string

animatedknots.com/ashley-stopper-knot

rudy - Posted - 12/12/2019:  17:31:29

quote:

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Originally posted by jrgilles

Haven't used this on a banjo string, but this is by far my favorite stopper knot. Can't see why it wouldn't work for a banjo string



animatedknots.com/ashley-stopper-knot

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Ashley's stopper is a great knot, but most of the knots related in the topic here deal with using a tied knot or a knot that works when looped over a post.

Ashley's Stopper Knot