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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: TOTW 10/11/2019 Salt River


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/357638

mjt0229 - Posted - 10/10/2019:  22:56:56


The tune of the week for October 11 is Salt River. Bluegrass folks play this tune as “Salt Creek”, owing to a recording by Bill Monroe. Slippery Hill lists a tune called "Salt River Reel”, but I think it’s different tune. Salt River an A tune and can be played in standard A tuning or in A modal. I first ran across it on Kaia Kater’s album "Sorrow Bound” [1]. Her version is not particularly traditional and is played fairly slowly; to me it fits best in A modal. Most of the other recordings I have tried playing along with seem to want to be in standard A tuning.



There is a surfeit of historical recordings and references for this tune, so many it’s hard to guess where it really came from. Miles Krassen includes Salt River in his book Clawhammer Banjo - he attributes his version to Frank George. I found historical recordings by:



Ed Haley slippery-hill.com/recording/salt-river-0

Henry Reed loc.gov/item/afcreed000117

Clark Kessinger slippery-hill.com/recording/salt-river-1

Norman Edmonds slippery-hill.com/recording/salt-river



There are a handful of recordings on the Field Recorders Collective, too:

slippery-hill.com/recording/salt-river

fieldrecorder.bandcamp.com/tra...t-river-2

fieldrecorder.bandcamp.com/tra...t-river-3



Spotify also has some nice recordings:

Rhys Jones open.spotify.com/track/3Liz0p2...UwFW-pv_A

Bruce Molsky open.spotify.com/track/3CCzr7B...0KEpKT6wg

Oscar Wright open.spotify.com/track/1WqG2Gp...6x_okgTSw



The Library of Congress link to the Henry Reed recording has some interesting notes. First, they point out that Reed starts with the high part. So do Kaia Kater and Bruce Molsky. The LOC also notes a relationship between Salt River and the tune Paddy on the Turnpike, and they indicate that the Salt River in question is the river in Kentucky (see notes later on).



When I mentioned Salt River to Adam Hurt, he mentioned that the Ed Haley recording bears a strong resemblance to another Ed Haley recording of a tune called No Corn on Tygart. You can hear that recording on Slippery Hill:

slippery-hill.com/recording/no-corn-tygart



So, with all that, I’m not quite sure where this tune really comes from!



I have a few more links to throw in. I’ve been working on a version based on the YouTube video by Katie Davis Henderson:

youtube.com/watch?v=xprApHNExrM



She has another version with dueling fiddles:

youtube.com/watch?v=SBNc8U-ve0w



Adam pointed out a recording featuring the fiddler Stephanie Coleman

banjohangout.org/song/15012



There are not one, but two videos by Hilarie Burhans:

youtube.com/watch?v=VBEIXPwn-ts

youtube.com/watch?v=oLTvxs1gPRs



One of Hilarie's videos mentions a recording by a band called the Improbabillies, which featured Richie Stearns on banjo, but I couldn’t find it anywhere.



There is a Salt River in Kentucky just southeast of Louisville [1] as well as an unincorporated community in Bullitt County, KY [2]. There are also Salt Rivers in Arizona, California, Michigan, Missouri, Wyoming, and the US Virgin Islands. If the tune refers to any particular place, odds are it’s one of the locations in Kentucky.



[1] open.spotify.com/track/3tNoiAr...Ur3iJ1kEw or youtube.com/watch?v=Hu2i95iKUNs

[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_River_(Kentucky)

[3] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_River,_Kentucky


Edited by - mjt0229 on 10/10/2019 22:58:01

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/11/2019:  01:15:26


Salt River and Salt Creek (the Keith/Monroe/Watson version) are two distinct tunes though they are similar and the titles are sometimes mixed and versions of the tunes combined. In the links above, for instance, Katie Davis Henderson plays the tune I call Salt River, while Stephanie Coleman is playing Salt Creek, though banjoist Steve Arkin, who posted it, calls it Salt River. You can clearly hear the difference. ... Below are links to the Monroe recording of Salt Creek and Salt River featuring fiddler Brittany Haas.  Again, the tunes are distinctly different.



m.youtube.com/watch?v=veoQdfdSX8A



m.youtube.com/watch?v=uf6pxssxvL8



in listening to the old-fiddler versions linked above it’s clear that both tunes, or variants of each, were called Salt River. When the Salt Creek title arrived, I do not know.  Anyone have that information?


Edited by - Bill Rogers on 10/11/2019 02:04:15

janolov - Posted - 10/11/2019:  06:34:01


There was a good discussion at Fiddle Hangout, discussing Salt River and Salt Creek. My conclusion from that discussion is that there are two or more different tunes that are named Salt , and Salt Creek is Monroe's version based on one of the Salt River versions.



In Traditional Tune Archive there is also a version mentioned (from Brody's Fiddler's Fakebook), that is based on one of the several versions of Sandy River Belle.



Anyhow, Sandy River is an example of good tunes.

mjt0229 - Posted - 10/12/2019:  15:09:04


I tabbed out the high part as I've been working on it. This is my first time using Tabledit. I tried doing it by hand, but my handwriting is just too messy. I still have a lot to learn about tabledit, I think. I'll finish tabbing the low part later this week.


Don Borchelt - Posted - 10/13/2019:  13:41:37


Bill Rogers wrote: "in listening to the old-fiddler versions linked above it’s clear that both tunes, or variants of each, were called Salt River. When the Salt Creek title arrived, I do not know. Anyone have that information?"

According to the book "The Music of Bill Monroe," written by Neil Rosenberg and Charles K. Wolfe, Bill Keith brought the tune to the band, having learned it from Don Stover. But Monroe had just issued Big Sandy River as a single, so he changed the name of the tune from Salt River to Salt Creek, to avoid confusion among his fans. I guess he was afraid that they would assume they had already bought it. Somewhere along the line I also heard that Monroe changed it so that his copyright would be more easily enforced. Both could be true at the same time.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/13/2019:  18:04:17


Thanks Don. Makes sense to me either way.

Tamarack - Posted - 10/13/2019:  20:55:32


A fine tune. To my unsophisticated ears, it walks the line between major and modal.

I will always be both puzzled and pleased to hear how many twists and turns a single tune can take.

BrooksMT - Posted - 10/13/2019:  21:03:22


I really like VancePants' version here on BHO. He says his is "Adapted from Oscar Wright's version".
banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...?id=26993

Here's an Oscar Wright Salt River on youtube (I'm not a Spotify member):
youtube.com/watch?v=aVE8mQRE14o

Thank you Mark T for the interesting writeup.

Jack Baker - Posted - 10/14/2019:  08:42:52


Bill,


I agree with you. Clawhammer songs have a way of merging into other Clawhammer songs called by the same titles. It sounds less melodically defined to me where as Bluegrass arrangements usually are pretty much the same melody. Bill Keith put his own spin on Salt Creek/Salt River and it became a permanent arrangement with few variations...


Everybody has fun calling songs by whichever name or region suits them...Showbiz I guess...Jack  p.s. who really knows who did what first. laugh




Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Thanks Don. Makes sense to me either way.






 


Edited by - Jack Baker on 10/14/2019 08:44:44

mjt0229 - Posted - 10/14/2019:  09:01:22


Here's a full tab, now that I've had some more time with the low part. I like starting with the high part because it's a little richer sounding. Eventually I'd like to learn a few more versions - there are some great ideas in some other folks' playing. This one's mostly based on Katie Davis Henderson's fiddling, which seems like it was pretty similar to what Bruce Molsky was doing.



Somehow I ended up with a double bar two bars from the end and I can't figure out how to get rid of it.


Edited by - mjt0229 on 10/14/2019 09:03:13


Jack Baker - Posted - 10/14/2019:  09:28:37


Just ignore those two bars. It seems to happen in many tabs these days. Probably just a glitch in tabledit I think. I could show you how to get rid of them but it's really not that important since you're just reading or writing a simple tune with no codas etc. etc....J




Originally posted by mjt0229

Here's a full tab, now that I've had some more time with the low part. I like starting with the high part because it's a little richer sounding. Eventually I'd like to learn a few more versions - there are some great ideas in some other folks' playing. This one's mostly based on Katie Davis Henderson's fiddling, which seems like it was pretty similar to what Bruce Molsky was doing.



Somehow I ended up with a double bar two bars from the end and I can't figure out how to get rid of it.






 


Edited by - Jack Baker on 10/14/2019 09:30:28

JanetB - Posted - 10/14/2019:  15:54:41


A rich choice, Mark.  Glad to see you're learning to tab with TablEdit.  You might get rid of the double bars if you went up to the MIDI tab, then the Reading List tab, and then deleted your reading list and re-enter it.  (There's actually a way to put in a double bar if you want one -- it's under first Edit, then Insert, then Endings and Repeat.  It leaves a little marker on the staff line that you can delete when in TablEdit, not the PDF version. I wish I knew how to put in just a single bar when I want one.)



Salt River has been a long-time favorite.  I had a class in bluegrass banjo in the 70's and that was a tune covered.  I adapted it later for clawhammer.  For this TOTW there were B parts I liked more than what my version had evolved to, so I listened to some of your links and came up with another B part. 



Doc Watson's is my favorite and I got to see him in concert back then with his son, Merle, and more recently with David Holt.





Here's my Salt River video and tab.


Edited by - JanetB on 10/14/2019 15:56:48


Jack Baker - Posted - 10/14/2019:  17:45:38


Hi Janet,


Very nice version of Salt Creek or Salt River as others call it. I have learned not to worry about the names of Clawhammer tunes a long time ago.laugh Tabledit puts in those double bar lines for no apparent reason. I know how to take them out but I don't find it important enough to bother with it if it's in Tab. If I'm just creating a tab I just put in the repeat signs manually...Jack




Originally posted by JanetB

A rich choice, Mark.  Glad to see you're learning to tab with TablEdit.  You might get rid of the double bars if you went up to the MIDI tab, then the Reading List tab, and then deleted your reading list and re-enter it.  (There's actually a way to put in a double bar if you want one -- it's under first Edit, then Insert, then Endings and Repeat.  It leaves a little marker on the staff line that you can delete when in TablEdit, not the PDF version. I wish I knew how to put in just a single bar when I want one.)



Salt River has been a long-time favorite.  I had a class in bluegrass banjo in the 70's and that was a tune covered.  I adapted it later for clawhammer.  For this TOTW there were B parts I liked more than what my version had evolved to, so I listened to some of your links and came up with another B part. 



Doc Watson's is my favorite and I got to see him in concert back then with his son, Merle, and more recently with David Holt.





Here's my Salt River video and tab.






 


Edited by - Jack Baker on 10/14/2019 17:46:35

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