Remsleep - Posted - 09/24/2019:  06:25:09

I just found out that an open jam very near me, which I thought had closed down, is up and running. I mentioned it to my teacher and he said I should know that it’s a full-speed jam and I’d be jumping in at the deep end. So what does that mean?

I’ve been learning for 2.5 years, have decent technique and timing and a repertoire of about 40 songs, but I recognize that picking up tunes by ear is one of my weaknesses. I have little jamming experience, limited to slow/learning jams, and I feel like this is a hump I need to get over.

Gentleman From VA - Posted - 09/24/2019:  06:27:52

Go, bring your instrument, you don't HAVE to play every song/tune. Heck, you don't have to play any. Sit, listen, play along if you're comfortable. Then come back the next week that you can and do it again. It won't take long for you to be happily playing along and learning new stuff all the time.

Jimbeaux - Posted - 09/24/2019:  06:41:05

Yea, just go and play if and when you feel comfortable. You can also sit a little distant and hunch over your banjo playing just loudly enough to hear yourself.

You might even meet some people who play other instruments more at your level who would be happy to meet you, and then you'll have people to play with away from the jam. I have always found intimate meetings with fewer musicians more rewarding than jams.

banjered - Posted - 09/24/2019:  06:48:49

Yep, go! Write the names of the tunes down, and look and learn'em at home. Stuff your banjo pot and try to play quietly off to the side. Everyone there was you at some time. Listen! banjered

AndyW - Posted - 09/24/2019:  07:20:54

I have a jam(uk=session) near me. Like you I haven't really gotten into playing by ear yet, and I have a near similar sized repertoire of around 30 tunes.

Sometimes our session is very small and I even get to suggest tunes. When it's like that I often play over half the time. Sometimes I end up playing hardly at all especially when the session is larger and venturing beyond it's 'core' tunes. When I started my tunes did not really coincide with usual session tunes so I had to go away and learn a bunch.

It's highly likely that your jam like mine will have certain tunes that they play time and time again. If you're lucky you'll know some. If not you will have a list of new tunes to learn as quickly as possibly in order to get playing.

jack_beuthin - Posted - 09/24/2019:  07:29:20

Also, consider contacting the jam host(s) to let them know that you would like to join. They might have some good tips for you (including jam conventions and etiquette), and if they are expecting you, then you won't make a "cold" first appearance. I co-host a local jam, which is open, and I always appreciate hearing from newcomers in advance. Just makes the process of integrating someone into the group a whole lot easier and smoother. Jams tend to be part musical, and part social. If all you do the first time is meet people who welcome you, that would be a great first step. Have fun--sure sounds like you are ready.

HerbMeister - Posted - 09/24/2019:  08:10:28

Personally, I was 13 years old and at my local Shakey's Pizza Parlor. Earlier, I had been talking to the banjo player. I told him I was learning to play. All of a sudden, he called me up to the stage, handed me his magnificent Bacon Silver Bell, and said "OK kid, let's hear what you can do." I ended up finishing out the set for him. The boss was impressed and hired me for Sunday afternoons. I ended up playing that parlor 5 nights a week until I was 20.

So, you just never know. When opportunity presents itself, go for it.

raybob - Posted - 09/24/2019:  08:22:27

Making a list if tunes you don't know is a good idea. You can also bring a recording device, even just your phone, to record those tunes to help get you started in learning them. Looking them up on Youtube is also a good resource, and you can use the speed control in 'settings' to slow it down some.

Jbo1 - Posted - 09/24/2019:  09:17:29

Good practice is not just knowing lots of songs, but also knowing chord changes, such as if this chord is played, then the next chord should be that chord. Many bluegrass songs are I, IV, V progressions, sometimes with a II chord thrown in. If your teacher hasn't taught you that systems, ask them to get some examples. As you learn that, you can then play along with lots of songs you may not yet know, but it keeps your fingers working, and your ears energized.

Cyndy - Posted - 09/24/2019:  09:59:38

I agree with all the advice that's been given. Wise people here. :)

The one thing I would add would be to check to see just how "open" the jam is before heading over with an instrument. If it's a group of welcoming people who invite new musicians to sit at the edges to learn and grow, then what a wonderful opportunity! By all means, take it.

But if the circle is tight and "open" really means they're interested in playing with other seasoned musicians who might stop by, then it might not be a comfortable place to dive in.

George Flink - Posted - 09/24/2019:  10:35:28

If you know your basic chords in the common keys, hear chord changes. can keep time, and can listen, go for it.

mjt0229 - Posted - 09/24/2019:  11:34:02

I have been playing for a few years now but haven't done a lot of jamming until recently - it took me a while to find the local community and get integrated, and I needed to make some time to make it a priority. Until then, I thought I'd been doing pretty well, learning reasonably complicated tunes, albeit slowly, and being able to play steadily.

My first few jams were pretty rough. I didn't know many of the tunes that were called and I was basically lost for most of the time. Thankfully the jams I've been at have been pretty forgiving, and I'm starting to get the hang of it. I also think it's made a big difference in my playing away from jams - I'm picking up new material much faster and I'm hearing so many more tunes so it's easier to learn them by analogy.

I'm still not great at playing in jams, but I'm getting better every time.

There's been some great advice already in this thread, but what I wanted to add was - play the jam, be polite, and DON'T get discouraged if it's hard or frustrating. Try to take away as much positive from the jam as you can and carry that with you; don't focus on moments where you didn't play well. You will get better as you play more and more and it'll get less stressful and more fun. Remember a few of the tunes you liked and try to learn one or two before the next jam, and keep it up!

Paul R - Posted - 09/24/2019:  22:31:37

You seem more than ready. Having mastered technique and having a number of tunes under your belt is a good sign. Of course everything isn't going to go your way - it's a bunch of people who already have their own way of playing and organizing. But jamming isn't about being 100%. It wouldn't be a learning experience if it were. It's about getting out of your comfort zone and dealing with the challenges. For me, one of them was to adapt what I knew to a group situation, and often that meant simplifying my playing. I was asked to join a workshop at a local festival here, and I was careful not to be intrusive. Sometimes you know you're doing okay when they want you to turn it up.

What can be frustrating for people already there is a newcomer who is unprepared and doesn't adapt to the session. That's a huge reason I left a jam recently. It lost its cohesiveness because people joining expected it to adapt to their way of playing. One person couldn't even play his guitar, but nobody said anything. Competent pickers stopped showing up.

So, be accommodating to the theme of the session. Be aware of what goes on and add your contributions. Serve the song or tune. I assume you will already be willing to be more than cooperative.

AndrewD - Posted - 09/25/2019:  04:30:25

What they all said. Go. Enjoy. Music is fun as a solitary pleasure. But, like other pleasures, it's a lot more fun with others.

Remsleep - Posted - 09/25/2019:  07:09:17

Thanks to all for the responses, which were both helpful and encouraging. I went. It was good. Attendance was apparently a bit light, but there were plenty of folks in the room nonetheless. I stuffed my banjo with an extra towel so I wouldn’t be too intrusive when I went off key.With a few exceptions I didn’t know any of the tunes, so I was watching the guitar players and playing chords with a bum-ditty most of the way. There was one chord I didn’t know in a Texas “D” tune I’d never heard before. They asked me to call a tune, so I chose “Needle Case” which I know very well. It was still difficult to play more melody notes at that speed, even though I play it plenty fast solo. After the sixth repetition I was wondering why we hadn’t ended when I realized that I was the caller and therefore had to end it. I’m guessing I’m not the first Jamming rookie to whom that has occurred.

mjt0229 - Posted - 09/25/2019:  08:53:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by Remsleep

Thanks to all for the responses, which were both helpful and encouraging. I went. It was good. Attendance was apparently a bit light, but there were plenty of folks in the room nonetheless. I stuffed my banjo with an extra towel so I wouldn’t be too intrusive when I went off key.With a few exceptions I didn’t know any of the tunes, so I was watching the guitar players and playing chords with a bum-ditty most of the way. There was one chord I didn’t know in a Texas “D” tune I’d never heard before. They asked me to call a tune, so I chose “Needle Case” which I know very well. It was still difficult to play more melody notes at that speed, even though I play it plenty fast solo. After the sixth repetition I was wondering why we hadn’t ended when I realized that I was the caller and therefore had to end it. I’m guessing I’m not the first Jamming rookie to whom that has occurred.

---

I can never figure out when to end a tune. I think I'm a bit self conscious so I assume nobody else wants to keep playing whatever tune I called, and I probably overcompensate by calling a halt early.

AndrewD - Posted - 09/25/2019:  09:02:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by Remsleep

Thanks to all for the responses, which were both helpful and encouraging. I went. It was good. Attendance was apparently a bit light, but there were plenty of folks in the room nonetheless. I stuffed my banjo with an extra towel so I wouldn’t be too intrusive when I went off key.With a few exceptions I didn’t know any of the tunes, so I was watching the guitar players and playing chords with a bum-ditty most of the way. There was one chord I didn’t know in a Texas “D” tune I’d never heard before. They asked me to call a tune, so I chose “Needle Case” which I know very well. It was still difficult to play more melody notes at that speed, even though I play it plenty fast solo. After the sixth repetition I was wondering why we hadn’t ended when I realized that I was the caller and therefore had to end it. I’m guessing I’m not the first Jamming rookie to whom that has occurred.

---

Only 6 repetitions ? You're really not used to old time jams are you 

Great thing about playing in a jam, especially where fiddles are doing all the heavy lifting on the melody, is that you don't have to (and aren't always expected to ) play a fully melodic rendition. As long as you don't get out of line rhythmically or harmonically you'll be fine. There are tunes which I know very well and can play a melodic version of at high speed where I may choose to take a back seat when playing with others and just have fun bouncing around the chord progression or adding repetitive rhythmic elements. There are other tunes which I'd never play solo as I don't really know them. But do know them well enough to play a backup that adds something (I hope) to an ensemble. I will even vary this from repetition to repetition in the same performance as it gets boring otherwise with the usual waaay more than 6 repetitions. Just played 2 repetitions of Needle Case at a reasonable but not fearsome speed. Took 30 seconds. So your 6 repetitions were about 1.5 minutes. At the session I play at we can easily double or even triple that - giving you a lot of time to play around with variations - or even learn a tune while it is being played.

Jack Baker - Posted - 09/25/2019:  09:06:00

Ha,

Where do you find the time to type these "Documents"...?....Please tell me you're retired or I'll feel lazy...Jack

---

Originally posted by AndrewD

quote:

---

Originally posted by Remsleep

Thanks to all for the responses, which were both helpful and encouraging. I went. It was good. Attendance was apparently a bit light, but there were plenty of folks in the room nonetheless. I stuffed my banjo with an extra towel so I wouldn’t be too intrusive when I went off key.With a few exceptions I didn’t know any of the tunes, so I was watching the guitar players and playing chords with a bum-ditty most of the way. There was one chord I didn’t know in a Texas “D” tune I’d never heard before. They asked me to call a tune, so I chose “Needle Case” which I know very well. It was still difficult to play more melody notes at that speed, even though I play it plenty fast solo. After the sixth repetition I was wondering why we hadn’t ended when I realized that I was the caller and therefore had to end it. I’m guessing I’m not the first Jamming rookie to whom that has occurred.

---

Only 6 repetitions ? You're really not used to old time jams are you 

Great thing about playing in a jam, especially where fiddles are doing all the heavy lifting on the melody, is that you don't have to (and aren't always expected to ) play a fully melodic rendition. As long as you don't get out of line rhythmically or harmonically you'll be fine. There are tunes which I know very well and can play a melodic version of at high speed where I may choose to take a back seat when playing with others and just have fun bouncing around the chord progression or adding repetitive rhythmic elements. There are other tunes which I'd never play solo as I don't really know them. But do know them well enough to play a backup that adds something (I hope) to an ensemble. I will even vary this from repetition to repetition in the same performance as it gets boring otherwise with the usual waaay more than 6 repetitions. Just played 2 repetitions of Needle Case at a reasonable but not fearsome speed. Took 30 seconds. So your 6 repetitions were about 1.5 minutes. At the session I play at we can easily double or even triple that - giving you a lot of time to play around with variations - or even learn a tune while it is being played.

---

Edited by - Jack Baker on 09/25/2019 09:07:07

AndrewD - Posted - 09/25/2019:  09:19:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Baker

Ha,

Where do you find the time to type these "Documents"...?....Please tell me you're retired or I'll feel lazy...Jack

Semi retired from a job that I do from home sitting at a computer. Typing this while thinking about what to put in a training video on on how to use the profiler in a particular software development environment. This is far more interesting. 

Jack Baker - Posted - 09/25/2019:  09:28:22

Thanks Andrew, sounds great to me....J

 

---

Originally posted by AndrewD

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Baker

Ha,

Where do you find the time to type these "Documents"...?....Please tell me you're retired or I'll feel lazy...Jack

Semi retired from a job that I do from home sitting at a computer. Typing this while thinking about what to put in a training video on on how to use the profiler in a particular software development environment. This is far more interesting. 

---

WVDreamin - Posted - 09/25/2019:  13:07:16

I'm with Andrew and said out loud "only six?!?" double that (at least) and your getting somewhere. 

Jack Baker - Posted - 09/25/2019:  13:24:25

Hi Billy and Andrew et al,

Learning banjo or any instrument, takes years and years of mindless repetition...I do notice that there are so many posts about technique of some sort....So at least people are coming to Banjo and that's important. There's a great series on PBS and it includes a lot about Bluegrass and Country. Lots of the "Greats" in the series...Take a peek if you have time....Jack   p.s.  I guess that's only in this Country...Here in NYC, it's also on channel 13...

---

Originally posted by WVDreamin

I'm with Andrew and said out loud "only six?!?" double that (at least) and your getting somewhere. 

---

Edited by - Jack Baker on 09/25/2019 13:25:53

m06 - Posted - 09/29/2019:  07:23:26

It's an open session? Go.



Listen. Notice. You have the option to sit on the edge if you need to, until you get a feel for it.



Pick a suitable moment to speak to the other musicians, ask the name of any tunes you aren't familiar with.



Take a pad and pencil to write them down. Most sessions have a core set of tunes that will repeat and other tunes that just randomly get played. Learning a few of the core set will give you a head start next time.

The ability to pick up tunes by ear on the fly happens gradually through practical hands-and-ears-on time. You only accrue that time and practical experience by regularly playing in sessions where there are tunes you don't know. Being able to pick up tunes on the fly is not witchcraft; it's a learned skill. And sessions are where you learn it.

The only way to build real session confidence and ability is to find a session with good musicians (including a strong fiddle player) who are welcoming, and engage with an openness and a willingness to learn. Assuming that is what is on offer, get in there...soak it up.

Be patient. Trust. And have fun. 

Edited by - m06 on 09/29/2019 07:34:25

slapchopz - Posted - 09/29/2019:  18:30:09

I went to my first jam around 1.5 years into playing. I didn't know most of the songs. Sit across from a knowledgeable banjo player and try to pick up on what they are playing by copying what they're doing if your ears aren't trained well.

cleslieb - Posted - 10/04/2019:  11:04:17

I agree on the "open-ness" issue.  There are jams that say they are inviting, but the harsh and inflexible enforcement of certain "rules" take the fun out of the event; and make participation next to impossible.  They are closed due, in part, to the closed mindedness of the jam leader and to some extent, to what I would call "the snob factor".

A new comer can remain an outsider which can challenge one's own sense of artistic worth.

There are many jams, and many are very friendly and truly open to allow people to enjoy playing... whatever the level.   So, the best advice is to move on if it doesn't fit... and don't look back.  There is a place where we all can play.  We just have to find it.

Edited by - cleslieb on 10/04/2019 11:19:21

George Flink - Posted - 10/04/2019:  11:05:42

...Also, sit as close to the lead fiddler as you can without being inappropriate. The fiddler will define the tune and how its played. Sitting next to other banjo players may not be very helpful especially fi you can't here the melody. Try to learn your tunes from renditions by good fiddle players.

Dmaud1 - Posted - 10/04/2019:  11:25:48

I would go. I have been playing for less than two years and nowhere near your ability. I would recommend to befriend one of the more seasoned players and watch and listen. If they are going to fast vamp a chord progression. Play softly and try not to disturb the group. My guess is you will be surprised at how well you do and will learn a lot in the process

bigleaf - Posted - 10/04/2019:  11:29:33

This is just the kind of thread that makes the hangout such a great forum. The advice so clear, so well considered, so funny. Y’all are good citizens.

m06 - Posted - 10/04/2019:  11:39:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by cleslieb

 

I agree on the "open-ness" issue.  There are jams that say they are inviting, but the harsh and inflexible enforcement of certain "rules" take the fun out of the event; and make participation next to impossible.  They are closed due, in part, to the closed mindedness of the jam leader and to some extent, to what I would call "the snob factor".

A new comer can remain an outsider which can challenge one's own sense of artistic worth.

There are many jams, and many are very friendly and truly open to allow people to enjoy playing... whatever the level.   So, the best advice is to move on if it doesn't fit... and don't look back.  There is a place where we all can play.  We just have to find it.

 

---

Chuck, if your post refers specifically to my use of the word 'openness' I was actually meaning the mindset of the new attendee. But I agree with your point too; musicians, like folks in any walk of life, can be welcoming or self-absorbed and aloof. The latter attitude is a huge and unmistakable blue-flashing warning light with siren to move on and find other better musicians. Those folks will never change and are best avoided from the moment that attitude is detected. And not particularly because it's rude and unfriendly; musically, self-absorbed is an indicator of a switched-off player. Good musicians are curious, attuned and interested to closely interact with their fellow musicians; switched-on - to create the best sound by drawing the best out of everyone.

There's basic session etiquette which helps to ensure good sound and a good experience for all. Anything else is musically irrelevant personal baggage - that doesn't. And should be left at home.

Edited by - m06 on 10/04/2019 11:49:16

walterolin - Posted - 10/04/2019:  15:19:04

I recommend the Pete Wernick Jam Camp to learn how to sit in the circle. Met some other players at my level, and we stay in touch and play together.

His camp is designed for the beginner/intermediate who wants to learn how to play with other people. You might find it to be a little stressful and intimidating at first, but you will be with other people who are also learning, and it turns out to be a lot of fun.

No affiliation, just thought it was a good program.

jamclasses.drbanjo.com/en/

Walter Olin

Paul R - Posted - 10/04/2019:  19:22:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by m06

quote:

---

Originally posted by cleslieb

 

I agree on the "open-ness" issue.  There are jams that say they are inviting, but the harsh and inflexible enforcement of certain "rules" take the fun out of the event; and make participation next to impossible.  They are closed due, in part, to the closed mindedness of the jam leader and to some extent, to what I would call "the snob factor".

A new comer can remain an outsider which can challenge one's own sense of artistic worth.

There are many jams, and many are very friendly and truly open to allow people to enjoy playing... whatever the level.   So, the best advice is to move on if it doesn't fit... and don't look back.  There is a place where we all can play.  We just have to find it.

 

---

Chuck, if your post refers specifically to my use of the word 'openness' I was actually meaning the mindset of the new attendee. But I agree with your point too; musicians, like folks in any walk of life, can be welcoming or self-absorbed and aloof. The latter attitude is a huge and unmistakable blue-flashing warning light with siren to move on and find other better musicians. Those folks will never change and are best avoided from the moment that attitude is detected. And not particularly because it's rude and unfriendly; musically, self-absorbed is an indicator of a switched-off player. Good musicians are curious, attuned and interested to closely interact with their fellow musicians; switched-on - to create the best sound by drawing the best out of everyone.

There's basic session etiquette which helps to ensure good sound and a good experience for all. Anything else is musically irrelevant personal baggage - that doesn't. And should be left at home.

---

I've experienced situations like that, where it's more of a clique than a jam and you feel like an intruder. Jams should be encouraging, not a gun fight.

On the other hand, there are the jams that are so loose that you wonder what the deal is. When a jam is advertised as (fill in the blank here - Old Time, Bluegrass, ...), that's what should be expected. But (as in the case of the BG jam I left), the underlying theme has been lost, it's difficult to come to grips with what it is. It evolves into people trying to put on a "performance" regardless of their ability and sensibility. (I was in a session where even listening seemed to be a lost art.)

There's a certain discipline to playing music, and there's a certain discipline that should be expected of the participants. You are making a contribution. That contribution may be minimal at first, but should naturally improve as your ability and familiarity with the jam increase. If a jam allows people to fly off in other directions, it loses its cohesiveness.

Somewhere, there's a satisfactory middle ground, where people can express themselves while constructively contributing. But this implies a discipline (mostly self-discipline), not of the drill sergeant sort, but of knowing the reasonable expectations and the outer limits of the session. You're working within parameters. It's when those parameters disappear that chaos ensues.

Old Hickory - Posted - 10/04/2019:  21:04:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by Remsleep

...he said I should know that it’s a full-speed jam and I’d be jumping in at the deep end. So what does that mean?

---

Since you've been to the jam and did play, then you now know firsthand whether the jam was really "full-speed" -- which in my experience and understanding means a jam where songs are played as fast as they would be on record or live performance by a real band. Plus, "full-speed" implies that the jam doesn't slow down to accommodate beginners or other relatively inexperienced players and the group does not like it when a beginner calls a tune and leads it at novice speed.

Speed is relative, of course. And I assume that bluegrass jam full-speed is faster than old-time jam full-speed.  I didn't notice that this topic was in the Old-Time forum.

Good for you giving it a go. Just watch and learn how experienced players end the tunes they lead. Seems like that's all you need to work on.

pickincat - Posted - 10/04/2019:  21:25:37

You just have to go for it. It's just a day in your life. You will always learn something if you hang back. What I have always found is if I put myself out there someone will offer tips. And never underestimate your own learning ability. I like paying Beatles songs on banjo. Your path to making the banjo sing is up to you.

m06 - Posted - 10/05/2019:  02:43:49

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul R

>On the other hand, there are the jams that are so loose that you wonder what the deal is. When a jam is advertised as (fill in the blank here - Old Time, Bluegrass, ...), that's what should be expected. But (as in the case of the BG jam I left), the underlying theme has been lost, it's difficult to come to grips with what it is. It evolves into people trying to put on a "performance" regardless of their ability and sensibility. (I was in a session where even listening seemed to be a lost art.)

There's a certain discipline to playing music, and there's a certain discipline that should be expected of the participants. You are making a contribution. That contribution may be minimal at first, but should naturally improve as your ability and familiarity with the jam increase. If a jam allows people to fly off in other directions, it loses its cohesiveness.<

---

Absolutely agree with you Paul.

But when I've made this point in previous threads it gets misinterpreted by one or more as 'unwelcoming' which is the furthest from the truth.

As in all walks of life there is also intelligently-conceived and badly-conceived or worse, no conception at all. A beginner turning up at a regular session consisting of experienced musicians and expecting that session to slow to their level all evening is frankly unrealistic and rude (see session etiquette). A beginner turning up at that same session  and joining where they can, being open to learn and yes, maybe enjoy a few slow tunes for their benefit is fine and welcome back.

There is a big difference between the totally unacceptable appalling experience of being being frozen out (attributable to the bad attitude of session regulars) and the deadening presence of cliques, and voluntarily wading in to even the friendliest session when completely out of your depth. There is a responsibility on attendees as well as session organisers to realistically self-assess and for organisers to publicise in advance what the nature of the session is. And make no mistake - slow sessions filled with incompetent musicians are just as likely (if not more likely) to contain cliques, freeze out newcomers and inhibit learning and development than a session with good musicians. Attitude is not linked to playing ability.

The other truism is that invariably those who do the complaining are seldom the people who put the time and effort in to organise session opportunities. Criticism is easy. Getting off one's butt and 'doing' is a lot harder and what makes a difference. Don't like the session you've been to? So organise your own and benefit others. 

Edited by - m06 on 10/05/2019 02:59:00

betsyv - Posted - 10/05/2019:  15:20:06

quote:Originally posted by RemsleepI just found out that an open jam very near me, which I thought had closed down, is up and running. I mentioned it to my teacher and he said I should know that it’s a full-speed jam and I’d be jumping in at the deep end. So what does that mean?



I’ve been learning for 2.5 years, have decent technique and timing and a repertoire of about 40 songs, but I recognize that picking up tunes by ear is one of my weaknesses. I have little jamming experience, limited to slow/learning jams, and I feel like this is a hump I need to get over.

betsyv - Posted - 10/05/2019:  15:22:21

Look for a Pete warnick jam camp. They teach you the works. I’ve been to 3 cause there so fun. Your teacher is afraid he is going to loose you.
Look up dr banjo on line. You won’t regret it

Remsleep - Posted - 10/05/2019:  16:06:10

Thanks, Betsy, there are a couple of them in my area over the next few months. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Wernick camps look to be focused on bluegrass rather than old-time. It’s all resonators in the pictures, not an open-back in sight. Not sure how good fo a fit that would be for me.

Fathand - Posted - 10/06/2019:  06:55:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by Remsleep

Thanks, Betsy, there are a couple of them in my area over the next few months. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Wernick camps look to be focused on bluegrass rather than old-time. It’s all resonators in the pictures, not an open-back in sight. Not sure how good fo a fit that would be for me.

---

Yes the Wernick camps are bluegrass oriented. It is easy for people to click on a thread and answer without reading which forum it is in which may give them a better clue to the OPs query.

Of course bluegrass often includes Fiddle tunes if that is your what version Old Time relates to and you might learn some new ideas to round out your banjo education such as learning how to back  up a vocalist. In my experience, bluegrass jams are more welcoming to "old time"  players than vice versa but I think you are right you may be more comfortable in a group playing mostly the kind of music you are used to.

Much of the advice you have been given can relate

Paul R - Posted - 10/06/2019:  20:38:26

quote:

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Originally posted by Fathand

... Of course bluegrass often includes Fiddle tunes if that is your what version Old Time relates to and you might learn some new ideas to round out your banjo education such as learning how to back  up a vocalist. In my experience, bluegrass jams are more welcoming to "old time"  players than vice versa but I think you are right you may be more comfortable in a group playing mostly the kind of music you are used to. ...

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I think any gathering that you can attend will help to further your musical education. Eventually, you may wish to cut your losses and go elsewhere. But you will find out how you can fit in (or not), in various musical settings. That in itself is an accomplishment.

(The jam I was a part of for several years openly accepted my clawhammer playing. In return, I learned the BG jam format of the circle jam, plus I played three-finger banjo where appropriate, and tried to stick to it when the regular BG banjoist wasn't there. Give a little.)

A jam, however, should be focused and have its parameters. And you should be willing to follow the rules/guidelines. It's the jams that don't have that focus that serve to confuse the attendee, and, in my experience, not make for a pleasant time for all, certainly not a good learning experience. The competent musicians are discouraged and the newbies aren't given direction.

The worst that can happen for you is that you'll discover a jam you needn't return to.

Matt Buckley - Posted - 10/07/2019:  09:01:46

A few thoughts, some of which may bring some disagreement.

1. Nomenclature is often a clue to the nature of the musical event. A "jam" is, generally speaking, not a "session". And, unless folks are singing, they are playing "tunes", not
"songs". I would be wary of attending any OT musical gathering where folks "jam" and play "songs". It suggests, but is admittedly not necessarily proof of, less experience in the genre. I know, I'm being picky, and perhaps even offensive to some, but it may make a difference as to how you approach your role in the gathering. If a free-for-all jam is where you are most comfortable, go for it. If it's a more serious session you want to join, then best to observe the difference and go from there.

2. Approaching a jam or session is, when all is said and done, mostly about common courtesy. Listen more, observe, play less or not at all depending on your comfort level, ask a few questions, be open to suggestions. listen again, and observe again.

3. Leave your ego at the door. Sometimes an experience at a session can be brutal, but those brutal experiences can be the seed of amazing growth. 30 odd years ago, I was quite hurt when told that my beginning attempts at Scottish bellows pipes were "rubbish". Ouch. I went home that night bruised. Woke up the next day, and started learning the real deal. I didn't blame the messenger. I recall a few years back experiencing a backup guitar player single handedly ruining a Scottish trad. session. The fact that I and others wanted to smash his guitar over his head does not lead to the conclusion that we were being elite, cold or unwelcoming. He was breaking all the rules of #2 above. As suggested above, just because you're not feeling a particularly welcome vibe doesn't necessarily mean the regulars have outsized egos and/or are trying to freeze you out. Many times, it simply means they've done the hard work, want to play good music, and may be concerned about something taking place in the session that is detracting from making good music.

4. Seek out, if available, your musical betters. Tough work, that. But in the end, very rewarding.

m06 - Posted - 10/07/2019:  12:17:31

Having the responsibility for trying to amicably resolve an individual’s failure to observe, or worse even be aware of, #2 and maintain the integrity of a session is a PIA. More often than not it is the session-killer who ends up hurling their toys out of their pram. Funny how they claim far greater knowledge of the genre than anyone at the session and yet that claimed knowledge is entirely absent from their playing and attempt to participate.



No matter the person who is left to do that task on behalf of the majority is usually the same person whose initiative and effort created the session opportunity in the first place. Be prepared to be abused by the odd clueless (and yet invariably strangely arrogant) would-be session-killer to preserve the session as a space for folks to enjoy a genuine, high standard music experience.

Matt's point about seeking out better musicians is crucial. That space and opportunity in the music landscape for better musicians to play and welcome others in doesn't invent or maintain itself. It takes nous and deliberate effort.

Edited by - m06 on 10/07/2019 12:30:48