Greg Steil - Posted - 03/02/2019:  04:53:36

Can anyone tell me the thread sizes for vintage banjo hooks? I would like to get dies to clean them up a bit and realize there are a few different sizes. Thanks.

rudy - Posted - 03/02/2019:  05:42:20

Hi Greg,  Most vintage hooks (as well as many new banjo hooks / nuts) are #8-26.  (#8-24 is also occasionally seen, but rarer.)

#8-26 is NOT a garden variety thread specification and the only place you can find taps and dies are from specialty supply houses or by having them custom made.  There are a few tap manufacturers who sometimes have the overruns from when they do a production run.  The last quote I had was $30 for the tap and $90 for the die.

There are countless topics here on the Hangout about taps and dies.  Every one of them start with a simple request like you have made and there are multiple posts about where you  can find them, unfortunately all of them incorrect.

Your best bet is to message Bill Rickard who has sometimes related that he might put them up for sale on his website of banjo parts and supplies.

Edited by - rudy on 03/02/2019 05:43:38

Ken LeVan - Posted - 03/02/2019:  06:08:05

What Rudy says about those old thread sizes not being "garden variety"  is so true, so true.  If you are lucky and your banjo is one of the rare 8-24 kinds, you can actually get those taps and dies from Victor Machinery in Brooklyn for a reasonable price. 

BUT, If it's 8-26, you have to look harder and will become frustrated.  I think it would be a good idea for BHO members to organize an email writing campaign to Victor machinery entreating them to offer 8-26 as one of their "specials".  They probably don't realize there's a market for that size. If 20 people write, they might do it!

rudy - Posted - 03/02/2019:  06:17:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

What Rudy says about those old thread sizes not being "garden variety"  is so true, so true.  If you are lucky and your banjo is one of the rare 8-24 kinds, you can actually get those taps and dies from Victor Machinery in Brooklyn for a reasonable price. 

BUT, If it's 8-26, you have to look harder and will become frustrated.  I think it would be a good idea for BHO members to organize an email writing campaign to Victor machinery entreating them to offer 8-26 as one of their "specials".  They probably don't realize there's a market for that size. If 20 people write, they might do it!

---

I used to have a list of a few different tap makers who all shot me back prices similar to the $30 tap / $90 die rates I posted above.  I'd love to see Victor Machinery's prices.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 03/02/2019:  06:32:27

quote:

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Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

What Rudy says about those old thread sizes not being "garden variety"  is so true, so true.  If you are lucky and your banjo is one of the rare 8-24 kinds, you can actually get those taps and dies from Victor Machinery in Brooklyn for a reasonable price. 

BUT, If it's 8-26, you have to look harder and will become frustrated.  I think it would be a good idea for BHO members to organize an email writing campaign to Victor machinery entreating them to offer 8-26 as one of their "specials".  They probably don't realize there's a market for that size. If 20 people write, they might do it!

---

I used to have a list of a few different tap makers who all shot me back prices similar to the $30 tap / $90 die rates I posted above.  I'd love to see Victor Machinery's prices.

---

Here's a link to their "specials" victornet.com/tools/Special-Th.../199.html

$9.50 for an 8-24 tap.  They have so many special sizes— I think they just don't know that anyone would want 8-26.

Edited by - Ken LeVan on 03/02/2019 06:34:34

rudy - Posted - 03/02/2019:  07:57:01

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken LeVan

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

What Rudy says about those old thread sizes not being "garden variety"  is so true, so true.  If you are lucky and your banjo is one of the rare 8-24 kinds, you can actually get those taps and dies from Victor Machinery in Brooklyn for a reasonable price. 

BUT, If it's 8-26, you have to look harder and will become frustrated.  I think it would be a good idea for BHO members to organize an email writing campaign to Victor machinery entreating them to offer 8-26 as one of their "specials".  They probably don't realize there's a market for that size. If 20 people write, they might do it!

---

I used to have a list of a few different tap makers who all shot me back prices similar to the $30 tap / $90 die rates I posted above.  I'd love to see Victor Machinery's prices.

---

Here's a link to their "specials" victornet.com/tools/Special-Th.../199.html

$9.50 for an 8-24 tap.  They have so many special sizes— I think they just don't know that anyone would want 8-26.

---

I e-mailed them and suggest that a few others on the forum do the same.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 03/02/2019:  11:03:38

Older British banjos likely have Whitworth threads (q.v.). A whole ‘nother Can of worms.

Dogfeathers - Posted - 03/03/2019:  19:24:25

With all respect due to the folks involved in the 8-26 (or 8-24) thread pattern used on most vintage banjos and regrettably in many modern banjos for some insane reason, I cannot for the life of me figure out why this question is continuing to be perpetuated in the building of _present day_ banjos. The problems related to it will now also be cast into the future too......and for what reason besides that it was done before! This is absurd!
When Fred Flintsone or his predecessors came up with the first prototype wheel it could have easily have been many sided and resembled a convenient rock. Thank God Fred's wife Wilma conked Fred on the noggin with a stone rolling pin and the wheel was refined to a round shape and we have been rolling forward ever since.
8-32 taps and dies are readily available all over North America and beyond at cheap prices (depending on quality) or maybe a standard metric (4mm x .07) size should be used that is available to the rest of the world. Many folks already have standard sized taps laying about in their drawers already. No need to have anything specially made at exorbitant prices and controlled by specialty cutting tool manufacturers and then having them suspending in limited availability forever more by the chosen few who continue to perpetuate this obsolete practice.

It is no wonder banjo players have the reputation of being stuck on the wheel of stupidity when accordion players, kazoo players and musical saw players command more respect from reasoned people.
Why in the world are we still beating this dead horse to a bloody pulp? My hat is off to the builders have made the conversion to a standard size and made the giant leap forward to common sense and the rest of you that still insist of sticking to this 17th century thread pattern .... well, you are only banjo players/builders....we can only expect so much! Will Wilma Flintstone and Betty Rubble please step forward and start conking some heads together? This is nuts!

I understand the need for this odd thread in the restoration of vintage instruments, but most banjo builders of the present day still jump into this sinking ship. From the days of Banjo L and before this discussion has been going on. Will someone enlighten me while I am still above ground because I can't figure it out.

rudy - Posted - 03/03/2019:  19:53:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dogfeathers

With all respect due to the folks involved in the 8-26 (or 8-24) thread pattern used on most vintage banjos and regrettably in many modern banjos for some insane reason, I cannot for the life of me figure out why this question is continuing to be perpetuated in the building of _present day_ banjos. The problems related to it will now also be cast into the future too......and for what reason besides that it was done before! This is absurd!

When Fred Flintsone or his predecessors came up with the first prototype wheel it could have easily have been many sided and resembled a convenient rock. Thank God Fred's wife Wilma conked Fred on the noggin with a stone rolling pin and the wheel was refined to a round shape and we have been rolling forward ever since.

8-32 taps and dies are readily available all over North America and beyond at cheap prices (depending on quality) or maybe a standard metric (4mm x .07) size should be used that is available to the rest of the world. Many folks already have standard sized taps laying about in their drawers already. No need to have anything specially made at exorbitant prices and controlled by specialty cutting tool manufacturers and then having them suspending in limited availability forever more by the chosen few who continue to perpetuate this obsolete practice.



It is no wonder banjo players have the reputation of being stuck on the wheel of stupidity when accordion players, kazoo players and musical saw players command more respect from reasoned people.

Why in the world are we still beating this dead horse to a bloody pulp? My hat is off to the builders have made the conversion to a standard size and made the giant leap forward to common sense and the rest of you that still insist of sticking to this 17th century thread pattern .... well, you are only banjo players/builders....we can only expect so much! Will Wilma Flintstone and Betty Rubble please step forward and start conking some heads together? This is nuts!



I understand the need for this odd thread in the restoration of vintage instruments, but most banjo builders of the present day still jump into this sinking ship. From the days of Banjo L and before this discussion has been going on. Will someone enlighten me while I am still above ground because I can't figure it out.

---

You're right, this subject has been discussed ad nausium.

The simple truth is the VAST majority of existing banjo hardware, both vintage AND modern, is #8-26.  Don't shoot the messanger, it's simple fact.

There are a few makers who have switched to #8-32 such as Brooks Masten, but the numbers just don't support the outlier community.  Most of the hardware production houses are set up to do #8-26 and in the grand scheme of things it's a small inconvenience to manufacturers to spec custom tooling.  The only folks who cry about the #8-26 thread specification are a few small shops and individual custom makers, the majority of THOSE users order pre-made hardware, so it's no big deal to have #8-26 threads on what they use.

Another side of the issue is that anything that requires work in the future will require individual repair techs or owners to track down "specialty" #8-32 hooks and nuts.  Don't even consider what a cruel trick it would be to end up with a banjo in your possession that has both types because someone used the "new standard".

It's pretty easy for me to see that sticking with the #8-26 hardware is a better proposition then imposing my wishes on an unsuspecting purchaser of my instruments.  So it was a bit of an imposition for me to spend $17 on a #8-26 tap?  I gladly did that, although it would have been "easier" fro me to pick up a generic tap at Do It Best.

It's bad enough to have to contend with pac rim manufacturers who use metric hardware.

I also have to say that IMHO the #8-26 hardware has a thread form that results in smoother operation as a head is tensioned and the threads look "right".  Fine pitch on the hooks just looks wrong if you're used to handling quality vintage banjos.

As a modern day maker it's not much of a "jump" to a sinking ship since, again, the VAST majority of quality banjo hooks and nuts is the #8-26 thread count.  I could resist and put elCrapo Ebay metric stuff on my banjos, but that isn't going to happen.

I'm not trying to be adversarial, but hopefully this will shed a bit of light on why current makers "stubbornly resist" moving beyond the stone age.

Why fix something that isn't broken if it's simply to be able to find taps and dies at the local hardware store?  I don't see anyone clamoring for the need to purchase 24 hook tension bands at Home Depot, and it's a similar "problem".  I make most of my hardware, but hooks and nuts are the exception, and quality plated hooks and nuts in traditional thread size of #8-26 are available virtually any place where fine banjo hardware is sold.

Again, simply consider the sheer number of banjos already out there that use #8-26 generally.  I don't see any compelling reason that we need to "change horses in the middle of the stream".

Edited by - rudy on 03/03/2019 20:08:02

Dogfeathers - Posted - 03/04/2019:  16:57:35

Ken LeVan - Posted - 03/04/2019:  17:40:59

Dogfeathers, I agree with you and not only do I agree, but I am "putting my money where my mouth is" so to speak.

In my current thread, "Three new Banjos" banjohangout.org/topic/351726  all three of the banjos shown, while traditional in design, and you'd never know by looking, have 8-32 threads, which has become my new standard.  Don't know why I didn't do it sooner.

rudy - Posted - 03/04/2019:  19:37:34

quote:

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Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken LeVan

What Rudy says about those old thread sizes not being "garden variety"  is so true, so true.  If you are lucky and your banjo is one of the rare 8-24 kinds, you can actually get those taps and dies from Victor Machinery in Brooklyn for a reasonable price. 

BUT, If it's 8-26, you have to look harder and will become frustrated.  I think it would be a good idea for BHO members to organize an email writing campaign to Victor machinery entreating them to offer 8-26 as one of their "specials".  They probably don't realize there's a market for that size. If 20 people write, they might do it!

---

I used to have a list of a few different tap makers who all shot me back prices similar to the $30 tap / $90 die rates I posted above.  I'd love to see Victor Machinery's prices.

---

Here's a link to their "specials" victornet.com/tools/Special-Th.../199.html

$9.50 for an 8-24 tap.  They have so many special sizes— I think they just don't know that anyone would want 8-26.

---

I e-mailed them and suggest that a few others on the forum do the same.

---

Just as a follow up I thought I'd let folks know I contacted Marc at Victor Machinery Exchange and he responded back to me promptly.  Unfortunately, it's the same availability information I've received back from many sources.  I don't personally want to order 2 dozen taps to get the price break, so I guess it's not just a matter of them not knowing that anyone wants #8-26 taps.

**********************************

The best I can suggest is that you get some people together and have us

quote us custom made taps.

There are price breaks at 12 pc and 24, and they only take a few days to

make.

I'm not looking to have to order a quantity of a new size from China and

wait 9 months to get them, as I'm reaching retirement age, LOL.



Dies are more of a problem.

**********************************

Here's the e-mail I sent in case anyone is interested:

Subject: tap availability

Hi,

After seeing your company mentioned as a supplier of specialty taps I thought I'd e-mail to see if there's a possibility of adding #8-26 to your specialty taps offering.

I am a banjo builder and the subject of "Where to get #8-26 tap"often comes up on the Banjo Hangout forum.  If your company offered that size many of us would be glad to link your company as a source of product.

To give you an idea of the problem here's a current forum inquiry about the tap / die availability.

My forum user's name is "Rudy" so you can read my responses to the original poster.

https://www.banjohangout.org/topic/351715/#4449714

You may respond to me, or easily join the discussion directly, it's free to sign up for the user's forum. Thank you for your attention to my question.

****************************************************

Edited by - rudy on 03/04/2019 19:42:34

Dogfeathers - Posted - 03/07/2019:  07:48:34

Ken,
I have been sending you private messages through the BHO system but have a feeling that are not getting through. Send me one so we can connect.

Dogfeathers