Alegria - Posted - 12/20/2018:  20:41:25

I am looking into ordering a hide skin, but I am uncertain what size to get? I have a recording king OT-25 banjo. Can anyone help me?

And whats the difference between goat and calf hide?

The Old Timer - Posted - 12/20/2018:  20:56:34

I think Recording Kings are all 11" heads.

Historically commercial hide heads were calfskin. I think goat is a more recent alternative that's easier to get/make, and cheaper. There may be ways goat is "better", but I'm not that into the subject.

pastorharry - Posted - 12/20/2018:  21:54:57

Contact John Balch on this site. He premounts Calf and goat skin heads, and has several different types. His heads are super strong and reliable and he has experience with Recording King banjos.

tdennis - Posted - 12/20/2018:  22:35:31

I've found that if you get a quality head of the right thickness it doesn't matter whether it's goat or calf. Both will deliver a rich, interesting voice.

Helix - Posted - 12/21/2018:  01:08:10

Get an eleven inch head. You want a high crown head. Specify that.



Mr. Balch and Mr. Smakula really know their stuff. I heard a hide head banjo that someone had painted the underside with latex white paint.

That banjo really "popped." Like a bongo drum, very tight and responsive. I was surprised how the 'folk remedy." worked.



Also , please consider a premounted head, they are not impossible to mount yourself, just less fun.

Edited by - Helix on 12/21/2018 01:09:05

Rabbit Tails to You Until We Meat Again

 

Helix - Posted - 12/21/2018:  01:11:32

If you ask the goat, he'll say his heads are not baaaaaaaaaaaaad.
Calves are the same, they just want their mother.

jbalch - Posted - 12/21/2018:  04:05:42

Thanks for recommending my pre-mounted heads. I appreciate it!



I agree with tdennis: there is no predictable difference in sound based on the species of animal (cow or goat). Any variance in the sound or performance may more likely be attributable to the thickness and texture of the individual hide.



Cow (calf) is naturally a little stronger that goat. Although I personally use goat hides on my banjos (with great results and many years for reliable service), I recommend high-grade calf hides for bluegrass banjos or any situation requiring a relatively high-tension set-up. High grade cow (calf) hides are a good bit more expensive that goat. The best ones are sanded by machine - for even very thickness and smooth surface. Regular (unsanded) cow hides can be thicker and often are heavily mottled or nearly completely translucent.



Goat hides are readily available from parts of the world where those animals are raised and harvested for food. It seems the skins must be plentiful as a byproduct of that process. So the cost may be is less (than cow). I really like the mottled look of some goat hides. Goat hides accept stains better than cow (staining is a popular option for old-time banjos).

I don't like (or use) "bleached" white skins.  The only hide heads that I have ever personally broken - have been the bleached type.  I assume maybe that the chemicals used to whiten the skin can weaken it. I prefer natural color hides.

To mount a head from scratch yourself you need:

flat hide (16" round or larger is recommended for an 11" rim - if you have not done this before.

flesh hoop rolled to fit your rim & tension hoop  - 1/8" square stock brass is traditional - other materials may work well too. 





I've been offering pre-mounted hide heads a few years now. There are hundreds of photos of my pats work posted on instagram here:  #hidebanjohead

Here is what I offer: 2018 JDBalch hide head price list

The video below shows how to install one of my pre-mounted heads. 

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays!   

Edited by - jbalch on 12/21/2018 04:10:15

VIDEO: How to install a JDBalch pre-mounted hide banjo head
(click to view)

 

Iderhobanjer23 - Posted - 12/21/2018:  05:51:56

I would absolutely recommend something pre-mounted if it's your first, because playing with tone and setup is more important first time around.

If you want to do it yourself, check out elderly instruments - I've found that unless you're buying in bulk, they tend to be the cheapest for raw hides.

RV6 - Posted - 12/21/2018:  07:07:00

I had a jbalch goatskin on my RK OT25 (sold).  It fit perfectly and sounded good.  I was thinking the crown height was medium.    John will know for sure.  There's another picture or two of the RK in my photo album. This head was stained with coffee.

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 12/21/2018:  10:48:40

I put a coffee stained 3 star John Balch head on a custom banjo build this summer at the owner's request and she was very happy with it. I was very happy too because of how easy it was to install, just like a synthetic head. I did stretch my own once some years ago and it was not too hard, but I was not sure if I was getting the right crown height for future tensioning so it made me a bit nervous. That was on a 9-1/8" or so spunover rim that I was supposed to make into a banjo uke, and I don't know how it worked out in the long run but I hope it was okay. I would not hesitate to recommend a John Balch head to anyone who was thinking about a hide head, they're even nicer in person than they look in the pictures.
Zach

pastorharry - Posted - 12/22/2018:  00:19:33

Agree with all except Helix who says high crown. I specified a low crown by John Balch so that as you tighten , the tension hoop stays higher and doesn't sink below the rim as you see on so many old skin head banjos.

Reiter Regent with John Balch skin head

 

pastorharry - Posted - 12/22/2018:  00:22:30

Stern Tanner head mounted on RB-100

 

Helix - Posted - 12/26/2018:  16:13:10

Um..... Harry, I think Mr. Balch will know the right crown height. Or Greg Rich would know. It's an RK-OT-25, not a flathead, nor archtop as shown. You may be right, but I don't think so.

 

Alegria - Posted - 12/27/2018:  01:26:56

Sorry for the late reply, been caught up in celebrating yule. Jbalch I am very tempted to go for one of your hide heads. It is a great service you provide and I suspect it will save me a lot of trouble. I will make an order in january when the next pay check rolls in.

@rv6 what tailpiece is that on your OT-25?

AndrewD - Posted - 12/27/2018:  03:33:20

I may have missed it - But nobody has said that if you don't go pre-mounted you need a skin that is, at least, 2" inches all round bigger than your hoop. So for an 11" head buy a 15" skin. Bigger is easier. Not hard to do yourself. And if you don't trim it until you are satisfied you can take it off, re-soak and start again. I use calf on my better banjos. Only one that's ever split for me was goat.