n1wr - Posted - 07/20/2018:  11:33:21

Eric - there are a couple conversations going on relative to this subject.

You are very likely aware of the MuseScore program. Many of our members seem to be drifting to this program as an alternative to TablEdit. The unfortunate thing is that they have to save their TABs in pdf format in order to share them in the archive, thereby limiting their usability for learning.

It really makes a lot of sense to allow MuseScore formatted TABs to be uploaded and shared in the archive.

Could you weigh in on this?

Thanks

banjo_brad - Posted - 07/20/2018:  15:00:02

Seems like MuseScore is becoming fairly popular on the HO, and is a free download program, so I would think it would be a welcome addition to the archive.

n1wr - Posted - 07/20/2018:  15:11:21

Eric - see this message string, especially the last few posts: banjohangout.org/topic/344348/1

n1wr - Posted - 07/20/2018:  15:15:05

Allowed file types are: Allowed file types are: bjo,tef,pdf,ptb,gif,tab,txt,jpg,med,gtp,gp3,gp4,gp5,gpx,mid,mp3,bmp. seems like it shouldn't be so complicated to add the .mscz extension.

Mooooo - Posted - 07/20/2018:  15:30:30

It wouldn't hurt to have .mxl as well as .mscz (both are MuseScore file-types)

dr4dpet - Posted - 07/20/2018:  17:06:42

Additionally, in order to have several of the tab/notation programs work together in a smoother manner, adding support for MusicXML (*.xml) could be beneficial. Both Musescore and TablEdit are reported to read and write to the file type. (So do Band in the Box, Finale, Forte, GuitarPro, MusEdit, Sibelius.) See here. 66 tab / notation programs are said to support read and write. There are another 17 in beta for read and write support. TuxGuitar will write to the MuxicXML format. PowerTab is said to be in beta for write support. Lilypond, Tefview, and Tefpad will read the format. I bolded the programs that are already supported by BHO that have some form of support for the MusicXML file format. In all there are 239 programs on the linked site that support the format to some degree. There are ABC notation programs in the bunch that may be popular with the Classic Banjo crowd.  :-)  

If this format is added, it would allow us to share files without changing our software of choice. Admittedly some clean up of files may be required depending on how well software choices read and write to and from the format. But the addition of this format may decrease the amount of requests for support of an increasing number of software options.

Mooooo - Posted - 07/20/2018:  17:18:36

I am not sure how the files supported by Band in a Box, Finale, Forte, GuitarPro, MusEdit, Sibelius and TablEdit are ended, but the available export from MuseScore is: Compressed Music XML File (*.mxl) not .xml as posted by dr4dpet. Confusing because they call it an MusicXML file and end it in mxl. Weird, but beware.

dr4dpet - Posted - 07/20/2018:  19:58:24

Mike,

Musescore can import and export as .xml, just as it can .midi.  There are other formats it can also import. For more info see here.

It's native format is .mscz, as you said. The uncompressed version for backups is .mscx  On the other hand .mxl is a compressed .xml for smaller files. And you are correct, MuseScore supports it for import and export as well.

Edited by - dr4dpet on 07/20/2018 20:05:36

dr4dpet - Posted - 07/20/2018:  21:44:49

Personally I would like to see the BHO add support for MuseScore's native file format - *.mscz because that is the program I use tabbing the songs I learn.

I made the post 3 above this one regarding .xml in the event the BHO doesn't want to add support for MuseScore because they question its popularity. Even so, they may would add support for a file format that many musical notation and tabbing software choices can read and write. The link in that other post pertained to support for *.xml files. In exploring this more, I found a better listing of music software that supports the *.xml and *.mxl file formats.  The page has two sections, one for what the programs can import and open and the other for what the programs can export. Beware that the headings seem to be reversed. The good thing about this site is that it seems to list all export and import options for each program. this list seems close to the first. As it turns out MusicXML files, the uncompressed variety, are saved as either *.xml or *.musicxml, with the later being the preferred suffix. Files with *.musicxml are not explicitly included, but then it doesn't show them to be excluded.

BTW, I am on an older version of MuseScore - v2.0.2, which uses the *.xml and the *.mxl suffixes. Newer versions of MuseScore use *.musicxml and *.mxl.  When I posted above I checked my software to see what export and import options were, as well as checking the MuseScore site. But I didn't dig deep enough to know that newer versions exported to *.musicxml.

n1wr - Posted - 07/21/2018:  09:39:05

This seems to be going off the deep end.

So think of this discussion this way. Eric is a reasonable person. But I believe he will be put off by a suggestion that he ad 6+ new file types. So, if you had your ruthers, what one or two file types should he add to make the archive more usable for MuseScore users.

An interesting perspective here - this whole discussion has to do with bringing technology into tune with current usage. The archive was established back in the day before the new software products were released, and now we need a fresh look at how we save and share TABs, without disinheriting the older methods.

There are some that still use paper (me for one - I keep a binder with the TABs I've learned - because at 70 I can forget a song pretty easily). For those that post in the archive there should be some consideration to include a printable version (e.g. pdf)

Mooooo - Posted - 07/21/2018:  18:33:45

*.mscz is the one that MuseScore works with naturally, I don't care about the others. I have been told that when the .mscz file type is shared it is the only one that doesn't need any cleaning up. Others seem to want the .mxl and .xml files to use with other programs.

Edited by - Mooooo on 07/21/2018 18:38:26

loonsailor - Posted - 07/21/2018:  21:53:53

.mscz (MuseScore native) and .mxl (compressed musicXML, which can be read by tablEdit and many others). .xml and .musicxml are both uncompressed MusicXML, and I’m not sure they’re necessary.

BTW, it would be great if tablEdit provided .mxl as well, for those who user other packages like MuseScore, Sibelius, etc.

lature - Posted - 07/22/2018:  05:26:01

The compressed versions of MusicXML (.mxl) and MuseScore (.mscz) are ZIP files that contain the original uncompressed file and some other stuff. So if you want to load a compressed XML file into TABLEDIT, first load it into any ZIP program, extract the uncompressed file (.xml) and load that into TABLEDIT.

Also, the compressed versions are MUCH smaller. I just did a quick look at a small tab (1 part with no backing tracks). The XML file was 116K and the compressed version was 6K. Same thing for Musescore - the uncompressed version was 300K and the compressed version was 43K. The original TEF file was around 2K.

So, to save a whole lot of space and download time, I would recommend adding support for only the compressed formats (.mxl and .mscz). If someone needs the uncompressed versions for some reason they can always use a ZIP tool.

dr4dpet - Posted - 07/25/2018:  22:56:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by n1wr

This seems to be going off the deep end.



-----So, if you had your ruthers, what one or two file types should he add to make the archive more usable for MuseScore users.





-----For those that post in the archive there should be some consideration to include a printable version (e.g. pdf)

---

If I were going with two file types to add I would suggest *.mscz and .mxl.  Like @lature said, both of these are compressed formats and would use less bandwidth and time  when uploading or downloading. As @Moooo stated, it is the native Musescore format. Musescore users would then simply upload the file for sharing with each other.

Personally, once I completed a file and have saved it as a *.mscz file, I would then click the mouse about 4 extra times. I would thus have the same song as *.mscz, *.mxl, and *.pdf. I could easily upload all three files and the song would be available for use by Musescore users, users of all of those programs I listed above (including Tabledit), and a nicely formated printable version to put in a binder, look at all of those donated by @Moooo.   (PDF is already supported by BHO.)

Since *.mxl had been supported by Tabledit for years, once a Tabledit user has finished a tab and saved it as *.tef, it would only take about two extra clicks to have a *.mxl version of the song. Now anything they had spent all of that time working on could be used by that same large list of *.mxl capable programs. Actually, they can already do this, except for the uploading part. It would be nice to have access to the 6999 tabs already archived in the tab library without retabbing each. With the release of Windows 10, Tabledit users should now be able to save a song as a pdf.  Go to the print option in Tabledit and then select "Microsoft Print to PDF." For Tabledit users on older versions of Windows reliable, free PDF printer programs have been available for years.