TW18 - Posted - 05/09/2018:  19:18:52

I am thinking about getting a 12 inch tubaphone banjo and would like to know what head people prefer. I've been reading other posts and have seen a lot of advocates for skin heads, but I'll be living near the water, moving around a lot, and leaving the banjo for long periods of time so I think I'd like a synthetic head. I did see people talking about waterproofing skin heads but couldn't find a whole lot on it, so if anyone has more info or experience with that I'd appreciate the input. It seems like most people prefer a frosted or fiberskyn head, with the renaissance being described as too shrill (only on tubaphones for some reason). I know I'll need to try them all for myself to see what I like, but let me know what you like and why. Thank you.

Chadbanjo - Posted - 05/09/2018:  19:51:27

Cant beat the sound of a real skin. Worth the extra trouble.

revellfa - Posted - 05/09/2018:  19:55:42

Hide heads can't be beaten for tone IMHO.

As for waterproofing try putting museum wax on it.

If that doesn't work a fiberskyn head can sound great too.

llrevis - Posted - 05/09/2018:  20:35:48

I have a Fyberskyn head on my 11 inch Tubaphone and am very happy with it.

Parker135 - Posted - 05/10/2018:  04:35:24

My banjo instructor of four years, who shall remain anonymous to protect the innocent, is a real advocate of skin heads. I have them on three banjos and love the way they sound compared to the various plastic heads I've tried. However, I finally switched back to plastic on the 11" Tradesman I take along in our camper. There can be wild swings in humidity when traveling and keeping the banjo in a small travel trailer, especially when we get near the ocean. I'm talking about sagging enough overnight to be unplayable without a lot of tightening and perhaps risking permanently over-stretching the head if I don't back it off in time. I've tried Renaissance Wax, which John Balch suggested. It might help a little. Following the methods on Johannes Bonefaas' website, I bought a new Remo Renaissance head from Bob Smakula and sprayed several light coats of Krylon ivory paint on the underside. I think it's the next best thing to a skin head on that banjo. The paint adds a little mass to the head which helps with the sharpness, but it doesn't dampen the sound as much as with a Fiberskyn head (which I've also tried). On a 12" Tubaphone, the results may be different, but if humidity is a real issue, you might try something like this.

banjered - Posted - 05/10/2018:  05:57:50

I usually prefer skin heads. Like the tone, don't have any problems often attributed to skin heads, sagging et. Last time I went to the Centrailia Old Time Campout in Washington State I kept my ears out for the best sounding banjo. It was a Tubaphone. With a Fiber Skin head - NOT what I would expect. A 12" might be more prone to sagging with moisture than an 11" but as you said, you won't know until you try. I have an 12" Mogi banjo for my main jam banjo. It sounds so good with a Ren head on it I haven't been tempted to put a skin head on it. So many factors come into play with any particular banjo, good luck! banjered

RV6 - Posted - 05/10/2018:  06:07:28

quote:

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Originally posted by Parker135

Following the methods on Johannes Bonefaas' website, I bought a new Remo Renaissance head from Bob Smakula and sprayed several light coats of Krylon ivory paint on the underside. I think it's the next best thing to a skin head on that banjo. The paint adds a little mass to the head which helps with the sharpness, but it doesn't dampen the sound as much as with a Fiberskyn head (which I've also tried). On a 12" Tubaphone, the results may be different, but if humidity is a real issue, you might try something like this.

---

I've sprayed the inside of three 11" Renaissance heads with Krylon "Fusion" for plastic spray.  One was painted with Dover White (off white) and the other two, black.  I agree that the paint changes the shape of the sound --- for the better, IMO.  And, if stuffing is used, it's hidden.  The paint added 3 grams to each head.

I've had two goatskin heads.  The one I bought from JBalch sounded good but I asked for staining and it turned out to dark so sold it.  The other is a goatskin I bought from Elderly and I stretched in on a JBalch square flesh hoop.  I turned out great for proper height and looks but seemed brighter than the painted Ren heads so it's sitting on the shelf now. 

Ren. head painted wtih Dover White Krylon Fusion paint

 

TW18 - Posted - 05/10/2018:  06:51:46

I had not heard of painting a synthetic banjo head, but I am intrigued by the idea. I can already tell I'm going to be doing some kind of head experiment marathon in the future.

Uncle Freddy - Posted - 05/10/2018:  14:29:25

I think painting a synthetic banjo head is a really interesting idea; the paint will add some damping, and with some experimentation could get a sound you might really like. I actually painted a skin head, quite heavily with acrylic artists colors, on both sides, hoping to mitigate humidity change problems (as well as decorate the head with fun stuff!). The sound is great to my taste, but it really didn't help with the moisture issue...skin still loosens and tightens with humidity changes, more than I would like.
I am, like others who've posted here, a big fan of the sound of skin as opposed to plastic. I've been building tackhead banjos with goatskin, and skin loosening can be a big issue, since there is no way to tighten the skin mechanically, you have to heat it and/or dry it to get it to tighten up.
So, I've been experimenting with treatments, and looking into what others do. Beyond what has already been mentioned here, I know one builder uses silicone camp spray (waterproofing) on both sides of the skin on his tackhead banjos, after the skin has been stretched; that seems to work well (but I'm chemically sensitive and have a hard time with that stuff). Acrylic paint has not worked well for me as a waterproofing. Right now I'm using Titebond lll, a waterproof, water-based aliphatic resin glue. I soak the skin in a dilute solution (thinned with water) for quite a while (still experimenting with optimum timing), then stretch the skin on the rim. I also wipe some additional undiluted Titebond lll on the front and back surface of the skin, once it's been stretched. This process wouldn't work for a banjo with standard hardware tightening system, because it ends up gluing the skin to the rim (which is what I want with a tackhead banjo). Possibly you could forego adding the glue to the soaking water, and just use it as an external treatment after stretching the skin. In that case it would be a somewhat less toxic alternative to the silicone spray, and might work similarly. It does add some weight and potential damping to the head; not necessarily a bad thing, since damping of some form is often added anyway. So far, I like the sound I'm getting, though there are so many variables (I'm doing a lot of things differently from traditional construction) that I can't say how much the glue treatment is responsible for, tone-wise.

Good luck, and let us know what you find out!

Uncle Freddy

jfhascall - Posted - 05/10/2018:  14:53:09

I remember Thompson's Water Seal being recommended, but I've never tried it. I just don't find it to be enough of a problem to worry about even though all my banjos have skins. That said, It's been years since I've been to 100%rH festivals in the East.

Parker135 - Posted - 05/10/2018:  18:21:43

There's a really great CD of a guy taking lessons from Kyle Creed called "Banjo Lessons on Kyle's Back Porch." At one point, Kyle talks about a new banjo head he's playing and mentions applying neatsfoot oil to it for waterproofing.

Uncle Freddy - Posted - 05/10/2018:  18:45:06

Wow, that's interesting! I'm not sure what exactly neatsfoot oil is, but I'm always hesitant to use oil on instruments unless I know it's something that's going to dry; not all oils do; some dry only by oxidation and take a long time, some have driers added to help with drying, and a few oils do dry on their own. I have to avoid anything with solvents, so I'm really careful about things like furniture oils that have stuff added to them to make them dry. I think (but I don't know!) that it might be a mistake to saturate a skin head with an oil that isn't going to dry...maybe I'm wrong there, but that's my intuition. If I'm right, neatsfoot oil is a waterproofing concoction for leather products, and is meant for supple leather on shoes and other clothing.
It sounds like another thing to try out...boy, life is just too short, and since I make instruments for a living, I can't afford to have every one be an experiment (although I do err in that direction:)).

Uncle Freddy

Parker135 - Posted - 05/10/2018:  18:52:09

I would also be reluctant to try it without a little more info to go on. I remember using the stuff as a kid for waterproofing my hiking boots. Maybe Kyle applied if very sparingly and then let the head sit out in the sun for a day or so before tensioning it. Who knows....he may have gone through a few skins before figuring it out; something none of us probably want to do.

Winged Words - Posted - 05/10/2018:  22:23:26

Jason Romero says in a recent Instagram post that he oils with General Finishes Arm-R-Seal and finishes with Renaissance Wax.

link-o-sausages - Posted - 05/11/2018:  22:30:28

I used some shoe waterproofing aerosol that worked very well but you have to do it with a new head that hasn’t been fully stretched. On an old head you’ll most likely just give yourself a premature and permanent sag from my experience. My aerosol was old enough to brag about its new self propellant technology so I don’t think the brands still available.

Fathand - Posted - 05/12/2018:  07:10:11

Go to a leatherwear store. They sell aerosols designed to help leather jackets etc. repel water. Nothing actually waterproofs leather and also leaves it leather like. Your hide head is leather' spray it on the inside or both sides.

Neats Foot oil, Dubbin, and Mink Oil are designed for shoes and may do a good job of water repelling but I find them a bit greasier on my shoes than I would want on a banjo.