Northl - Posted - 11/16/2017:  07:02:34

When we learned the Double D scale, p.76,

c2003 version, you had us move our hand up the neck and play it with first and second fingers mainly.



What I want to know is on, Arkansas Traveler for example, the first measure of last line, do you move your again up the neck as a rule or should we be making our ring and pinky fingers get used to playing these? That is what I am trying to do now. What works best over all songs, keys, scope of clawhammer? Thanks!!!

Edited by - Northl on 11/16/2017 07:04:22

AndyW - Posted - 11/16/2017:  09:38:03

I can't really comment on the p76 scale as I sort of skipped through that and can't really remember.

For the tunes I am using one finger/one fret as much as possible. So for that particular section it's ring finger and hammer-on with the pinkie. There are a few pinkie hammer-ons and pull-offs throughout the tunes that there is no way to work around so might as well get used to it!!

Clawdan - Posted - 11/17/2017:  12:48:04

I will post a more complete answer later this weekend but basically you pick places to anchor your hand so you have the finger/fret relationship by position AND the always frustrating "rules are meant to get you started then be broken when different situations (read as you advance) put you in places that the rules just don't work anymore.

Play Nice,
Dan

Clawdan - Posted - 11/17/2017:  13:42:48

Okay, let's talk options and advancing beyond the "rules". First, to answer your direct question, either will work and while the pinky/ring finger option keeps your hand in position, moving the hand up to use the middle and index finger then bring it back for the next paired notes works well since you have time to move from one point to the other.

Sometime (in other tunes) the choice of which to use is more clear (such as in Mississippi Sawyer in the beginning phrase where you "need" to go up with the whole hand for the same note pair in order to easily get the seventh fret on the first string with your pinky). Other times it is not as clear.

So, the lesson here is that first, there is no "one right way" and second that the rules will get you going and give you a good solid starting point (and improve your flexibility and technique in the process) but they are just that, a starting point not the ending one.

You will all find more examples of this ongoing quandary as you continue to learn and grow.

Glad you are finding your way to these questions. It shows thought and consideration and not just blind obedience to the "rules". Thanks for asking.

Play Nice,
Dan
Clawdan.com

AndyW - Posted - 11/17/2017:  21:56:51

Dan, surely the way  that particular measure falls pretty much shouts out ring-finger and pinkie unless you have a particular aversion to using them.



Surely a beginner avoiding the difficulty of using the pinkie is no more 'breaking the rules' than a beginner avoiding difficult drop thumb.



Of course there are no rules per say,  but since you have used that terminology. Surely before 'breaking the rules' at an early stage it is better to play 'by the rules' for a period first.



A lifetime of pinkie avoidance could be at stake here.

Edited by - AndyW on 11/17/2017 21:58:36

Clawdan - Posted - 11/18/2017:  08:19:58

True for sure. Just pointing out the possibilities. Sooner or later we all start to migrate beyond them so part of this is to say,"that's ok".

quote:

---

Originally posted by AndyW

Dan, surely the way  that particular measure falls pretty much shouts out ring-finger and pinkie unless you have a particular aversion to using them.



Surely a beginner avoiding the difficulty of using the pinkie is no more 'breaking the rules' than a beginner avoiding difficult drop thumb.



Of course there are no rules per say,  but since you have used that terminology. Surely before 'breaking the rules' at an early stage it is better to play 'by the rules' for a period first.



A lifetime of pinkie avoidance could be at stake here.

---

WayneConrad - Posted - 11/18/2017:  11:44:38

I imagine it's a struggle for a teacher to figure out where to call something a rule and where to call it a suggestion. Once you get good enough, it's all suggestions. When you start, some things need to be rules, because having to decide between all the different ways you could do it is just too much.

My favorite device for this is when a teacher says, "Here's a rule. Later, we'll learn that it's not the only rule. You'll also start to get ideas for when it might be useful to break it. But for now, here's a rule." This lets the student have the solidity of a rule to stand on, but be prepared to be flexible later when they can handle more.

AndyW - Posted - 11/18/2017:  13:52:08

Wayne, I was just being slightly provocative to elicit a quick response. I feel Lynda is probably a similar beginner level(yes I know this is subjective in itself) to myself(I admit I may be doing you a disservice Lynda), and I thought Dan might not be aware of that as the way he had worded his reply seemed to be to a higher level.



Also Lynda has posted before about pinkie weakness, which I doubt Dan is aware of, and I thought Dan's original reply might put her off practising using it.

Dan, I have the greatest respect for what you say, and I still think your book is the best beginners book out there! 

Edited by - AndyW on 11/18/2017 14:03:50

WayneConrad - Posted - 11/18/2017:  14:27:55

@AndyW I guess I came off as though I was chastising you. I apologize for that. Your motives are good, and you've done nothing wrong. What's more, it's not my place to chastise you. I had some thoughts about the meaning of "rule," and wrote them down without thinking about how they'd be received.

Clawdan - Posted - 11/19/2017:  12:18:36

Thank you Andy. And thanks for the clarification. Lynda and I have had a few off list conversations and I think I understand where she is and what she is asking. I do tend to push "up" as opposed to just looking to give the simple answer both to get 'you' to think and because when you ask, you are ready for the more complete answer even if you are not really ready to fully understand it.

Yes, the simple, here is the rule so the question answers itself is easier to understand but I always like to give more. Hope that's ok. ;)

Play Nice,
Dan