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Doug Cowell - Posted - 07/21/2017: 19:32:47
I was in a banjo workshop last weekend with Jason and Pharis Romero, the builders of Romero banjo (and wonderful performers). Someone asked Jason about the heads he used. He replied that he prefers goatskin heads (and seems to put them on all his OB banjoes). But what he had on the two instruments he had on tour weren't goatskin. I asked why so he explained that on tour it's too difficult to keep natural skin heads in in proper condition and so he uses synthetic heads. But the two he had didn't look like any mylar heads I'd ever seen.
He explained that a big problem with the plastic heads for the tone he wants is that they are too thin. So what he was using was Renaissance heads that he had coated with lacquer on the inside surface (smooth side, bottom or whatever). I think he used more than one coat. It looked pretty thick and maybe lumpy. He said it makes the heads thicker and a little more irregular and makes for a richer tone.
I'm in the midst of experimenting with one myself. The lacquer I have is very thin so I'll use several coats. Should know in a few days.
Doug
Parker135 - Posted - 07/22/2017: 05:44:13
That's really interesting. I'm going through some of that with a goatskin on the Tradesman that I take along in our camper. I like the goatskin a lot, but camping in really humid weather this summer was a problem. Just in the last few days, I applied Renaissance Wax to it based on a tip from John Balch, so that may help. I recently ordered a replacement Renaissance head for it to experiment with painting the underside. Johannes Bonefaas offers that as an option on his banjos. Somewhere on here, maybe even recently, I read about using an aerosol can of Kils primer for the underside. That's going to be my next try. Lacquer seems like it would take so many coats compared to the primer. Maybe it melts into the head and adheres better, though. Looking forward to your results!
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 07/22/2017: 08:47:24
Have you tried the Fiberskin heads or just a plain frosted Remo?
Parker135 - Posted - 07/22/2017: 10:59:50
I have. I thought the Fiberskyn was too dull or muddy sounding sounding. I had a top-frosted Remo on it for awhile, remembering that I kept going back to it when I had my Goodtime, but then after reading opinions about frosted vs. Renaissance heads I decided to put the original Ren on it, and decided maybe Kevin Enoch had it right! I think that's where I'm leaning now, either plain or painted on the backside if/when the goatskin isn't practical. I really like the softer but clear tone from the skin head the best. This is a real first-world problem if there ever was one!
RG - Posted - 07/22/2017: 11:34:05
Back in 2003 or thereabouts I spray painted the underside of a Ren head with Krylon eggshell white and installed in on my Vega Little Wonder conversion for purely aesthetic reasons...it did affect the tone positively in my opinion and I still have that head on that banjo, I've included a sound file of it here.
I'm not a big fan of Ren heads in general, I've used medium goatskin for all of my banjos over the last 15 years (Elderly has the best and most consistent medium goat that I've found, have probably mounted upwards of 300 skin heads on banjos including Ry Cooder's Gibson that he got from Mike Seeger and played on his Ricky Skaggs/White Family tour), and use them on any builds that I still make. In my experince of repairing banjos I've found that most folks who install Fiberskyn's don't properly tension them; same with goatskin or calfskin. The Ren doesn't quite sound like a frosted head, nor does it sound like a skin head (or properly installed Fiberskyn head)...and that in-between sound just doesn't appeal to me, but to each their own.
Bottom line, I'm glad I sprayed the bottom of that Ren head to get it to sound a lot closer to skin...
Edited by - RG on 07/22/2017 11:36:36
Parker135 - Posted - 07/22/2017: 13:17:17
That sounds really good. I've only been at this maybe four years, so I have a lot to learn. So much has been done before. I got to see Ry Cooder once.....does that count? I have learned to mount skin heads from a piece of goatskin, which I figured was a necessary part of the journey, and it's still my favorite sound. Krylon seems like a good choice for applying over plastic, so maybe I'll give that a try for my humid weather banjo-ing. Thanks.
Don Huber - Posted - 07/22/2017: 14:22:11
Rick's recording speaks volumes, and I agree with RD's comment about frosted heads, which I now have on all four of my banjos that I actually play regularly. (two open backs, 2 resonator). I just do not like the sound of either Ren or fibreskin heads, and yes aesthetics are also important to me. I simply find myself repulsed by the look of a Ren heard. (Yes, to each their own).
I like how the banjo in this video sounds with a Whyte Lady tone ring paired with a frosted 5-Star head. The banjo is tuned down a full step. Only goat would sound better to my ear, but not in the humid midwest!
youtu.be/ZxUMQ__C9aE
Edited by - Don Huber on 07/22/2017 14:29:05
rudy - Posted - 07/22/2017: 20:04:43
Brooks Masten used to have the special procedure posted on his website that he used for installing goat skin heads. He maintains that the procedure makes them very stable. I've posted the link to the the web archive of that particular page of his website that you can probably locate with a search here if you want to read it.
RG - Posted - 07/23/2017: 01:16:38
If properly mounted, skin heads are pretty stable in all but the most humid conditions...the trick is to mount and dry the head thoroughly about 3/4 of where you would want it and then stretch it to its final position...but you really need to let it dry for a full 48 hours minimum until final tightening and most poeple don't have the patience to wait that long.
Uncle Freddy - Posted - 07/27/2017: 15:49:12
My 100+-year-old Bruno has what I believe to be its original calfskin head, and that really almost never moves significantly. I haven't adjusted it in many years. New goatskin is different, for sure, but I wonder if just a few times through the process of wetting/drying/tightening/loosening a new skin wouldn't help a lot with the problem, kind of breaking it in. I haven't tried that yet. I have been doing some experimenting with various coatings/treatments for goatskin, but it's too early to report results. I did cover a skin head with a lot of acrylic artists paint on both sides; surprisingly it didn't make much difference in humidity absorption, as far as I can tell, though it still sounds great.
Fred
Parker135 - Posted - 07/27/2017: 16:18:32
I mounted one of John Balch's goatskin heads on my Tradesman (not premounted) and left just enough extra to allow me to soak it again and grab the edge with pliers to re-stretch it a little. I recall reading the comments of Brooks Masten that Rudy mentioned. He described how he goes through several wetting and drying cycles until the head no longer changes much with humidity. So I think you're probably right about older heads becoming more stable (or stretching as much as they're going to stretch). Maybe the next time I mount a head, I'll just plan on a few wet/dry cycles with it to see what happens. I tried Renaissance wax on this one, which might help a little, but I don't think it's a cure-all either. It still seems to respond quite a bit to changes in humidity.
Currently, I have a Remo Renaissamce head on the Tradesman, painted on the back with an ivory shade of Krylon. That came out really well and was very easy to do. I think that's going to stay on through our next camping trip.
