timentecott - Posted - 06/20/2017:  17:19:40

Haven't posted for ages, and not sure this is the same account as before but a friendly hello again to you banjo devotees and oracles! 

I played a nylon strung banjo earlier this week and decided I would really like to have a change on my White Lady. I was  thinking I'd initially try standard pitch and then maybe going lower - what I see referred to as "minstrel". Firstly do you have any recommendations for strings - reviews for nylguts are patchy and andybanjo has nylon sets for half the price. And secondly what kind of tunings should i consider for lower tunings and what guages? (or a way to work out guages) 

Preemptive thanks!

Tim 

banjoteacher.co.uk

ClayTech - Posted - 06/20/2017:  18:13:27

Super Nylgut. Bob Smakula has them.

mikehalloran - Posted - 06/20/2017:  19:03:58

> reviews for nylguts are patchy <

NylGuts are great. Nylon doesn't really compare.

Noah Cline - Posted - 06/20/2017:  19:10:58

Another +1 for Nylguts. All of the banjos I make and old ones I restore I string them with Nylguts. 

If you want to keep it up to G, I would try the med. tension Super Nylguts (I use this set a lot, and they sound nice tuned to E or F, depending on the scale length). 

If you're wanting to experiment with tuning to D or E, then you can't go wrong with the Minstrel set. The strings are heavier and include a wound fourth. 

Also, Elderly Instruments carries these along with the other various sets.

Edited by - Noah Cline on 06/20/2017 19:12:36

CoE15NJV - Posted - 06/20/2017:  20:27:25

I have a Gold Tone WL-250 and some years ago I strung it up with nylon fishing line. Still sounds great with the original set I made up still on. They don't seem to wear out! What I used: 20lb test for 1st and 5th strings, 30lb for 2nd string, 40lb for 3rd string, 50lb for 4th string. Previous to changing strings, I put on a calf skin head and changed the tailpiece to a No-Knot. 

I have a set of Nylgut Minstrels on my tackhead banjo, and I really like them (it does take about a week of stretching before they'll stay in tune...but once they're there, they're worth it).

timentecott - Posted - 06/21/2017:  04:51:09

Thank you everyone, sounds like the nylguts are the way to go then but I cannot find the super ones in the uk. worth importing or shall i just go with standard?

dpgetman - Posted - 06/21/2017:  07:06:16

Hi Tim,

+1 for Nylguts!  Not that you asked, but I thought I'd drop in a few suggestions to keep in mind for your experiment that might save you a bit of the trouble I had with mine.  I initially found non-steel strings frustrating and couldn't get the sound or feel I wanted out of them.  I tried three times and went back to steel each time until I got the process down with instruction from BHO.    

1)  Give the nylguts lots of time to settle.  I put them on and tune them up, then put the banjo away for a day.  Then I tune them up the next day and put it away for a day.  By day three they are good and stretched out and ready to keep in tune enough to play for a while.  If you try to keep in tune before the strings are stretched, they will feel floppy and the 1st or 5th string will likely break on you as you fight against the string stretching as you are playing.  I broke three 1st strings before I researched it a bit and changed my approach.  Now that I take a few days to get the strings right, by day three they feel nice and tight and no breakage.

2) Non steel strings break pretty easy.  When I dedicated one of my banjos to nygut strings, I gently filed the slopes around the string holes of the tuner pegs and the edges of the No Know to allow the strings to slide along the edges without cutting.  I used files, but you can also do it with sand paper.  

3) The gauges for the nylguts will be different than steel, meaning they will likely not set all the way into the slots of your nut or bridge and can pinch, which can produce tone and tuning issues.  This isn't a huge issue when you are testing out how they sound on your banjo, but if you keep them there you will likely want to widen the slots of the bridge and nut to accommodate the strings.  Once the slots are the right size you will hear a noticeable difference in the tone IMHO.

David 

rhillslc - Posted - 06/21/2017:  08:21:08

A few thoughts to consider beyond those already suggested:

1.  I am not sure what, if any, difference there is between "super" nylgut and "new" nylgut strings.  On the Elderly site, at least, they are listed as "new," but the pictures of the packages show "super."

2.  My favorite nylon strings are Sands mediums, but they have not been available for a couple of years now.

3.  On my WL-250, I found that with the new/super nylgut strings, I prefer a lighter bridge, specifically a Bart Veerman A weight, mystery wood, no top.  Bart's web site has lots of good information regarding considerations to match bridges to string types and playing styles:  banjobridge.com/.  I also needed to tweak the head tension to find the (totally subjective) "optimum" sound with the new strings and bridge.  (Using a different bridge for nylgut strings also eliminates the need to widen the slots on the current bridge, allowing me to go back to steel strings without buzzing when the mood strikes.)

4.  When installing the new nylgut strings, do not cut off the excess string until the strings have fully stretched (several days).  I find that the new strings completely fill the tuner posts after the first or second adjustment.  I then have to loosen each partially-stretched string and pull it further through the hole in the post and re-tighten.  Leaving the excess string gives me something to grab onto during this process.

5.  On my particular WL-250, the spaces between the posts on the original no-knot tailpiece were too narrow for nylon strings.  A replacement cammed "deluxe" no-knot tailpiece from Elderly solved that problem.

6.  If the slots in the original nut are widened to accommodate nylon strings, the steel strings may buzz if you ever go back.  Because I periodically do switch back and forth between steel and nylon strings, I also eventually replaced the original nut with a zero glide nut so that that slot width is no longer an issue.  I also had to widen the slot in the fifth string pip to keep the fifth string from popping out.  When I go back to steel strings, I put a tiny piece of paper under the string in that slot.  Quick and dirty, but it works.  I suppose you could also do the same thing in widened bridge and nut slots.

ClayTech - Posted - 06/21/2017:  09:23:30

When I put on Nylguts, I put them through the tuner post hole and stretch them about as far as I can by hand before winding them on. Otherwise they'll fill up the post before getting up to tension sometimes. For the lower strings it's not as a big a deal, but definitely for the smaller diameter strings. I don't baby them or anything like some folks, just crank them up to a few notes above where I normally play, give them a tug at the 12th fret, tighten again, play a little, tug, tighten, etc. They settle in in a day or two that way. I never have breaking problems, just lucky I guess.

RV6 - Posted - 06/21/2017:  15:09:48

A thread about the Red Aquila's & Nylguts: banjohangout.org/topic/331776/#4201754

I had trouble with the old Aquila white strings and the Reds, breaking strings 1 and 5.  I took about a week to bring them up to tuning and the 1st string on one set never made it up to tune.

I tried Aquila's again after Chris Sands strings went out of production.  I tried the Super's (Aquila 5B's) and, after reading that some folks on the Hangout thought they were tougher, I decided to see how far I could "push the envelope".

I put them on my Reiter A Flat (24 3/4" scale) around 9:00 am and they were tuned to double C by noon.  That evening, I tuned the up to open G.  For the next day or two, they needed slight re-tuning as they stretched.  After 3 days, they were solid.

I strung up the my 24 3/4" scale Sagmoen a few days after that and tuned them slightly more aggressively.

No broken strings and sounding good after close to a year.