Fathand - Posted - 04/22/2017:  13:44:18

I am wondering what options there are besides original for replacing the plate for a Ball Bearing 2 Piece flange. Does someone make a good replica? Do the 1970's Gibson 2PF fit? Are there a lot of these out there from people who have converted to OPF?

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/22/2017:  14:43:01

This?

dhergert - Posted - 04/22/2017:  16:08:31

I don't think anyone has ever made an exact replica. 

The Ballbearing era tube-and-plate flange plates have every other hole large enough to pass the hook nuts through, allowing the flange to be removed while keeping the head tension static..  That ended shortly after 1-piece flanges came out with the exception of on the Style 6s.  So those plates are unique and different from the post-war plates.  I don't know if the hook-hole spacing is different, but someone here may have some experience with that...

As far as a source for the original flange plates, anyone who makes a business of making pre-war Gibson parts banjos would probably have a lot of these around in a variety of style-appropriate platings and/or engravings.  One or two of those folks advertise here in the Hangout pretty regularly.

Btw, it sounds to me like a nice restoration project.

-- Don

Fathand - Posted - 04/22/2017:  17:21:19

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

 

This?

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Yes but the holes are wrong on that one.

RioStat - Posted - 04/22/2017:  21:26:35

Check out Jimmy Cox's website. I believe his tube and plate is pretty much like Gibsons.

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/23/2017:  07:01:50

quote:

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Originally posted by Fathand

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory  

This?

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Yes but the holes are wrong on that one.

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They are?  Do you mean the hook holes don't align with the holes in the tube?  Or the sound holes are the wrong design?

Fathand - Posted - 04/23/2017:  09:43:42

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

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Originally posted by Fathand

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory  

This?

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Yes but the holes are wrong on that one.

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They are?  Do you mean the hook holes don't align with the holes in the tube?  Or the sound holes are the wrong design?

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The originals have a combination of alternating large and small holes so that the flange plate can be removed by only removing about half the nuts. the other half of the nuts bear directly on the tube. This leaves your head in tension and saves time. Not that I remove my flange often but I do prefer to be as close to original as I can be.

The current plate on the banjo is in 2 semicircular pieces, it may be a Saga as they use that type of pattern. It does have the alternating holes as well. I asked on the BHO once about Gibson ever using such a design but no one had heard of it.

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/23/2017:  13:11:21

Got it.  The one I linked to appears not to have the larger holes.  I knew about those.  Assumed -- incorrectly -- it would be a design element that anyone making a two-piece would copy.  I didn't look closely at the picture. Too bad.

Fathand - Posted - 04/23/2017:  15:39:56

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

Got it.  The one I linked to appears not to have the larger holes.  I knew about those.  Assumed -- incorrectly -- it would be a design element that anyone making a two-piece would copy.  I didn't look closely at the picture. Too bad.

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I see that Cox and Prucha are selling replica 2PF although I do not see the four 1925 style holes for the resonator bolts drilled in them although these are probably easy to do because I think Gibson drilled these after plating as they always look chewed up.

I may go this route if I don't find an original.

Fathand - Posted - 04/23/2017:  16:01:01

quote:

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Originally posted by dhergert

Btw, it sounds to me like a nice restoration project.

-- Don 

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I bought this banjo # 8041-47 New Years eve 1982. It came with a H&F flamed Maple Double Cut peghead neck with 3 different sized frets. I probably did not know enough at the time I bought it. I eventually scrounged a Presto tailpiece from a Slingerland to replace the modern Window Pane on it and replaced a couple odd hooks with the correct ones back then. It sat in the closet for a lot of years while I built motorcycles and then sat again again when I started playing a Stelling.

The neck always bothered me so I have a Diamond n Square straight maple with Mastertone in Fiddle headstock almost completed. Purchased the carved neck blank from Siminoff a few years ago and fingerboard from Custom Inlay.  I thought as long as I am changing the neck I should look into the flange plate which I am suspecting might be Saga although I have just found another member here with an even earlier Style 4 that also has a split flange so now we are wondering if they are actually original. Would love to hear from anyone that knows.

I look forward to playing her on stage again, she sounds so nice now that I have learned a few more things about playing.

BTuno - Posted - 04/24/2017:  08:18:14

Hmmm, glad I read this. I'm restoring a '25 Style 5, 8035, and it has a flange plate in two pieces. I assumed it was broken. The "break" is exactly centered on an indent for the tailpiece bolt, opposite the ends at the neck heel. Its a very tidy, smooth edged "break". I was going to have it soldered or braised back together, but after reading this post I think it may be original. Wow, never heard of this feature on early Mastertones before, and glad to know about it. T'would be good to hear of others of the same vintage.

Fathand - Posted - 04/24/2017:  08:28:16

quote:

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Originally posted by BTuno

Hmmm, glad I read this. I'm restoring a '25 Style 5, 8035, and it has a flange plate in two pieces. I assumed it was broken. The "break" is exactly centered on an indent for the tailpiece bolt, opposite the ends at the neck heel. Its a very tidy, smooth edged "break". I was going to have it soldered or braised back together, but after reading this post I think it may be original. Wow, never heard of this feature on early Mastertones before, and glad to know about it. T'would be good to hear of others of the same vintage.

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You are now the 3rd one I know of. Mine #8041, the other person who contacted me with 8033 and yours with 8035. I assume you have a pre-mastertone label with "This Gibson Guaranteed" etc.

I better hold off buying a replacement. I have opened a discussion in the Ball Bearing Group  banjohangout.org/topic/330094/#4182331

Edited by - Fathand on 04/24/2017 08:38:11

Fathand - Posted - 04/24/2017:  08:51:18

Pic  I was sent of the split plate on a style 4.

Split Flange

 

BTuno - Posted - 04/24/2017:  10:04:09

Yup, exactly! Note the engraving is around the indent for the TP bolt. VERY clean split! Gibson Script decal too! Most interesting...

 

Fathand - Posted - 04/24/2017:  10:10:21

quote:

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Originally posted by BTuno

Yup, exactly! Note the engraving is around the indent for the TP bolt. VERY clean split! Gibson Script decal too! Most interesting...

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Thanks for this, the fact yours is gold plated and engraved is pretty convincing this is not a Saga or other Asian replica as I had thought mine was. I doubt the Saga ones have the alternating sized holes either.

dhergert - Posted - 04/24/2017:  10:19:25

Yup, there's no doubt in my mind that the split is original on those flanges.  The engraved one is the clincher to me, but even before that it had started to sound like this is the way the factory delivered the early original flange plates.

Mine, 8204-9, is later '25 or early '26 and its flange plate is one piece.  It  also has the later Mastertone label, with no holes in the skirt and no scalloping of the tone ring spacer.  Interestingly though, the neck has Mastertone in the peghead.

Sounds to me like you guys with the 2-piece plates have a not-very-well-known piece of very early tube-and-plate flange history. 

Those early 2-piece flange units were actually 3-piece flanges! 

Congrats!

-- Don

Fathand - Posted - 04/24/2017:  10:24:31

So. I have found a picture of the Saga Split plate. These holes are uniform size convincing me further. I am going to link a copy of this thread to Collectors Forum as it has veered from the original part sourcing topic. 

sagamusic.com/products/product...tem=P-221

Edited by - Fathand on 04/24/2017 10:31:29

RioStat - Posted - 04/24/2017:  18:03:38

I've got 8069-73, early 1925 TB3, it has the one piece flange plate, alternating big and small holes in it.