Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors


 All Forums
 Playing the Banjo
 Playing Advice: Clawhammer and Old-Time Styles
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: TOTW (OT) 24 March 2017: Hard Times in '63


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/329100

Zischkale - Posted - 03/23/2017:  20:42:34


There are a number of OT-jam-ready fiddle tunes I’d like to discuss that have not yet been posted, but this week I’ll step in a different direction.



 



I’ll admit I didn’t come around quickly to the world of minstrel banjo and the old tutors, which held some historical interest but always seemed a bit academic to me. I appreciated the beauty of the instruments, and enjoyed the precise and bouncy playing of folks like Tim Twiss (not to mention his killer intonation on those old fretless things), and was captivated by the idea of a greater understanding of the African American roots of banjo. But the genre seemed so out-of-reach. Our recording technology was developed too late, and while experts will point out echoes of the music in the repertoire of Uncle Dave Macon and the Round Peak players, I had a hard time really feeling the jigs and hornpipes transcribed by Briggs, Converse, and Buckley.



 



The 2016 issue of Banjo Newsletter snapped me out of that, with an excellent article interviewing Rhiannon Giddens, describing her connection to the music and leading me online to her spirited medley of two Briggs tunes. She mentions the unique role of the 5th string in those old arrangements, and in the video displays it beautifully (see below for link).



 



Through her playing, Mark Twain’s rhapsodic words about the instrument become clear (always worth quoting -  “...come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whisky, go right through you like Brandreth’s pills, ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pin-feather pimples on a picked goose…”). Figured it was fate that Hugh Strawn’s “Old Time from the Ozarks” article that month featured a giveaway. Won a copy of Winner’s New Primer for the Banjo, with hopes of learning a couple pieces and posting on BHO. A year later’s probably enough time, so I present my take on “Hard Times in ‘63”, a tune about which I can find no info (it’s not Foster’s “Hard Times”), and can’t ascertain what specific sort of hard time the song references (there happened to be a bloodbath of a civil war going on, and climaxing at Gettysburg). It fascinates me that this date is contemporary to the publishing of the primer. The arrangement is simple, but within it you can feel a familiar 3 against 2 polyrhythm (1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2) shared in caribbean music and bluegrass. I improvise quite a bit on the arrangement, but stayed somewhat close to Winner’s and tried to invoke the glory-beaming side of the instrument.



 



Here's my take. I'm using my Noah Cline banjo - the thing is a joy to play - tuned to eAEG#B (apparently Winner’s used dGDF#A).



 





youtu.be/viYcwnuw4RA



 



Would love to hear any information about this specific tune, or y’all’s take on the melody (or any of your favorite old-old-school banjo pieces).



 



A few links/notes:



 



Visit Hugh Strawn’s website, Old Time from the Ozarks, where you can find notes about his regular Banjo Newsletter article. Thanks for your hard work, Hugh (and the copy of Winner’s)!



 



Check out Tim Twiss’ incredible early minstrel banjo website, where he offers extensive resources on the subject. Dude’s a banjo legend for the knowledge he’s shared and work he’s put toward the preservation of the style. And to boot, he can play the hell outta the thing. Here is Tim playing a sampling of tunes from Winner’s, including Hard Times in ‘63. To hear him really rip, check out the Union Jig from his Music page on BHO - banjohangout.org/myhangout/med...archived=



 



Please pick yourself up a copy of the February 2016 BNL with the Rhiannon Giddens interview. It’s fantastic. Check out this music. Also note that she’s got a new album out that scored a review in Pitchfork (I always perk up when old-time crosses over the mainstream).



 



And for the record, Septimus Winner is an awesome name.


Edited by - Zischkale on 03/23/2017 20:52:20

janolov - Posted - 03/24/2017:  09:52:47


I do like your choice. It is wonderful to see old banjo tunes as TOTW  as a variation to all fiddle tunes. I think these old banjo tunes make a challenge both to play in the old old-time way (minstrel style) and to play it in more contemporary styles. I like Aaron's way of taking the old tune and developing improvisations from the basic tune. 



On the minstrelbanjo.ning.com site there is a scan of the tune from the Winner book: minstrelbanjo.ning.com/photo/h...mes-in-63

ManfredK - Posted - 03/24/2017:  14:51:40


Just uploaded a tab.banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...p;v=22475

JanetB - Posted - 03/25/2017:  17:01:07


I've only tried minstrel banjo a bit, mostly from written sources.  This TOTW tune has already given me some insights, Aaron.  When I first heard your version of Hard Times in '63 I was hearing delightful calypso and minstrel combined.  That made sense to me, picturing the banjo as moving northward from the Caribbean islands into the States and eventually to the minstrel scene. I then looked for west African banjo music and found some irresistible youtube videos, such as Bela Fleck's documentary in Africa, "Throw Down Your Heart."  The rhythms are captivating, as in Hard Times in '63.



I like Tim Twiss' expert playing and tried to play the tune like him.  I do hope he'll give us some insights here.  Manfred's tab and yours were helpful, as was Winners' notation.



Funny, but my first attempt produced a 2-finger style version in open G tuning, which could play along with Tim in the same key.  When I tried it "minstrel style" in minstrel tuning I played the same tune, but my thumb suddenly took on a prominent roll on both the 5th and 2nd strings.  In open G tuning I didn't even need the 5th string.



In minstrel tuning Tim plays a kind of thumb-lead on the second string, whereas others, such as Greg Adams and Rhiannon Gidden, don't drop their thumb down, but use their downstroke finger.  This tells me that minstrel tutor books may be open to individualized modern interpretation and don't necessarily dictate fingering. 



My question is, how much specific direction for fingering is actually in the written minstrel sources?  I've looked at some of these sources and have not "decoded" them yet.  Janolov provided a link for the original notation, which has notes only and no fingering at all.  The key signature allowed me to think I could indeed play it in open G, but this turned out not to use the "minstrel method" of using the 5th string in the melody or for rhythm.  Perhaps, Aaron, you could share more about the book you won which contains our new TOTW.



Take a look at Greg Adams playing this Hard Times in '63 at 3:15 in the video and observe his thumb.



As for me, I'll keep working on it and thinking about all these new possibilities. Good, thoughtful choice, Aaron!





 


Edited by - JanetB on 03/25/2017 17:14:32

bhniko - Posted - 03/26/2017:  12:56:32


Ah...seems like the perfect day to have my head messaged by these delightful tunes. So simple but so wonderful.

Thank you Aaron.

bd - Posted - 03/26/2017:  19:25:56


quote:


Originally posted by JanetB

 

 




My question is, how much specific direction for fingering is actually in the written minstrel sources?  I've looked at some of these sources and have not "decoded" them yet.  Janolov provided a link for the original notation, which has notes only and no fingering at all.  The key signature allowed me to think I could indeed play it in open G, but this turned out not to use the "minstrel method" of using the 5th string in the melody or for rhythm.  Perhaps, Aaron, you could share more about the book you won which contains our new TOTW.




 







It depends. Some of the tutors have a extensive fingering suggestions (e.g., Converse's Analytical Banjo Method) others have little to none, but most have some at least. I'll attach a short example from the above Converse book to something with a lot of fingering info--for both the right & left hand. FYI the numbers above are for the left and those below for the right


janolov - Posted - 03/27/2017:  01:58:45


Here is a page from Winners where Greg Adams have suggested the right hand fingering: minstrelbanjo.ning.com/photo/s...xt=latest 



I also have another scan of Hard Times in '63 where there is another fingering suggested (perhaps Tim Twiss? I think I got the scan from minstrelbanjo.ning.com but I can't find it now), see attachment.



I think there are several possibilities to play this tune and the "heavyweights" in the field seems to have different preferences, so it will be an everlasting discussion how Winter would play it.


bd - Posted - 03/27/2017:  16:40:43


Here's a quick stab at it--as written. nothing fancy.


Zischkale - Posted - 03/28/2017:  06:32:39


Janet - thanks for posting Greg's rendition, I think that's the last one I watched before taking this tune on so many months ago, and it's made me overlook Tim's thumb in his video! Definitely a less-intuitive move for a clawhammer player, but worth attempting - the tonal difference between a strike from the back of the nail and an up-pick from the pad of the thumb is significant enough to make a distinction. My book didn't include any basic instruction on the style - but I'm sure Tim's playing is informed by other tutors, like the Converse example in B D's post. 



Thanks for the sharp eye!



Jan - thanks for posting Greg's fingering diagrams. I'd love to hear input from him since he appears to play it differently in the video above. 



B D - sounds good to me! That's the tempo I like for this one. Got some momentum going.

AlpacaLips - Posted - 03/28/2017:  21:49:31


Yeah, so I guess I un-minstreled it.



Played on Ome Flora. Tuned bEBEF# I think (Double-C, capo @ 4). Notes is hard.


bd - Posted - 03/29/2017:  06:00:45


quote:

Originally posted by AlpacaLips

 

Yeah, so I guess I un-minstreled it.




Played on Ome Flora. Tuned bEBEF# I think (Double-C, capo @ 4). Notes is hard.







Very nice!



I like how you framed your own version with Winner's version 

Zischkale - Posted - 03/29/2017:  06:33:58


Thanks for posting, Cory! Seconding B D's opinion here and glad to hear your rendition. Three years ago I made myself a couple mixtapes comprised of banjo music found online, and Arthur in the Jailhouse was a highlight. 



Some might refer to "un-minstreling" as "old-time"?

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Privacy Consent (EU/GDPR Only)

Copyright 2026 Banjo Hangout. All Rights Reserved.





Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

4.296875E-02